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Questions and Answers (Dutch)
Zac Poonen

Zac Poonen (1939 - ). Christian preacher, Bible teacher, and author based in Bangalore, India. A former Indian Naval officer, he resigned in 1966 after converting to Christianity, later founding the Christian Fellowship Centre (CFC) in 1975, which grew into a network of churches. He has written over 30 books, including "The Pursuit of Godliness," and shares thousands of free sermons, emphasizing holiness and New Testament teachings. Married to Annie since 1968, they have four sons in ministry. Poonen supports himself through "tent-making," accepting no salary or royalties. After stepping down as CFC elder in 1999, he focused on global preaching and mentoring. His teachings prioritize spiritual maturity, humility, and living free from materialism. He remains active, with his work widely accessible online in multiple languages. Poonen’s ministry avoids institutional structures, advocating for simple, Spirit-led fellowships. His influence spans decades, inspiring Christians to pursue a deeper relationship with God.
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Sermon Summary
This sermon emphasizes the importance of continuous repentance and the progression in the Christian life, highlighting the need to walk in the light, repent daily, and be filled with the Holy Spirit to overcome sin. It explains the difference between being married to the law and being married to Christ, where the law of the Spirit inside us fulfills the righteous requirement of the law. The message also addresses the need for faith to receive from Christ, the ongoing repentance in the victorious life, and the significance of yielding every area of our lives to Jesus for the Holy Spirit to fill us completely.
Sermon Transcription
We have got some very, very good questions. I have been at question-answer sessions in different parts of the world in the last thirty years. And I am greatly encouraged to see that these are some of the best questions I have ever gotten in my life, which shows that people are listening carefully, and they are questioning, is this in Scripture? That's very good. One of the wonderful things we just heard about the Buryan Christians, they searched the Scriptures even after listening to the Apostle Paul. If we preach what the Apostle Paul preached, most of it is not new. But the people in the synagogues in those days had only heard the Old Covenant teaching of Moses. And whenever you go to people who have only heard the Old Covenant and teach the New Covenant, it's strange. So, they were shocked when they heard Paul preaching so many strange things. He preached the same thing in Thessalonica, but they fought and argued with Paul and kicked him out of the city. But the people in Berea were more noble. They were open. They said, maybe there's something we need to learn here. So after Paul preached, they said, well, praise the Lord, Brother Paul, we'd like to go home and study the Scriptures and then come back here. And I'm sure they had that attitude with every preacher who came there. First of all, they were not stuck in their old system. Otherwise, they would have been like the people in Thessalonica and said, this is all rubbish, we don't want to listen to it. The Holy Spirit says, such people are not noble-minded. But the people in Berea were noble-minded. And they were humble. They said, well, maybe there's something more we have to learn in Scripture which we have not learned. Maybe Paul is sharing with us something our elders in our own synagogue haven't understood. So, whenever any preacher came, they always checked it with Scripture. And they followed Scripture. And there was a church there. But have you noticed in the New Testament, there is no epistle to the Bereans. Why? Because they always checked with Scripture. There was no need to write any letter to correct anything. That's the advantage of being a Berean. But if you're like the Galatians who listen to this and listen to that, and anybody who comes along, just believe it. You need to write a letter to correct them. So, let's be noble-minded like the Bereans. And we know that among Christians there are many different doctrines. And we have some strong views on that. But always we must test doctrine by our life. Has this doctrine produced a New Testament life in me? When I was a young Christian, I was confused by all the different Protestant denominations. And I said, Lord, how to know what is the truth? And I got this verse. John 8, 32, you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. So I got a help there. That if what I'm hearing is the truth, it will set me free. Not bring me into greater bondage. Anything that brings greater bondage or discouragement or condemnation cannot be the truth. The truth always sets us free. Free from sin. If you read in John 8, 32, he was talking about sin there. Not free to do what we like. Some people think freedom means I get up and dance in the meeting. Well, if you want to do that, you do that. But be free from sin first. That's more important. I'm more interested in being free from sin than dancing in the meeting. I'll tell you that. I'm more interested in being free from sin than dancing in the meeting. Jesus didn't come to teach us to be free to do all these things. He came to free us from sin. Never forget the first promise in the New Testament. First promise in the New Testament. Do you know what it is? Matthew 1, 21. You shall call his name Jesus. For he shall save his people from their sins. Not he shall forgive their sins. He shall save his people from their sins. There's a difference between being forgiven of our sin and saved from our sin, which many people don't understand. Supposing I have a little son at home, six years old. Supposing some workers are digging a big pit outside on the road. And I tell my son, son, don't go anywhere near that pit. Because you'll fall down. But like all little children, they disobey their father. And he goes near the pit and he falls down. And from that eight-foot pit, he cries out, daddy. And from that pit, he calls out, daddy. And I say, what happened? Daddy, I'm sorry I disobeyed you. And I say, okay son, I forgive you. Goodbye. Have I forgiven him? Yes. Have I saved him? No. Has Jesus forgiven you? Maybe yes. Has he saved you? He came to save his people from their sins. He came to save his people from the pit they have fallen into. Don't let the devil rob you of your inheritance in Christ. Okay, now let's go to these questions. Now, one question is, if you say the Old Covenant is abolished, do we need the Old Testament of the Bible at all? Let's use the word agreement. An agreement God made with man. Old agreement, new agreement. The word Old Testament is not referring to any section of the Bible. Man has put the word Old Testament in the beginning. See, man has put the word Old Testament in the beginning. On the first page of your Bible, there is the word of man. But the Bible starts with, in the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth, and so on. And man has put Old Testament in the beginning. And then, at the beginning of Matthew, they have put New Testament. But the Bible is one. It was what was written before Christ came and what was written after Christ came. So, I would prefer to read it like that. The books that were written before Christ came and the books that were written after Christ came. Do we need the books that God wrote before Christ came? Yes. Otherwise, how will I know about how sin came into the world, how God created man and woman? And I can learn so many things from the mistakes that Israel made. So many things I can learn from the mistakes David made, and Moses made, and Elijah made. Three quarters of the Bible is those first 39 books. And those books written before Christ came are very important for all of us. But the old agreement God made with man through Moses has been abolished. But we must remember, when we read all those 39 books, that there are laws given there that don't apply to us. In the book of Leviticus, it says you shouldn't eat pork. That's a law. If you disobeyed it as an Israelite, you were disobedient to God. It doesn't apply to us. Because all these laws about food, and Sabbath, and tithing, and all that is gone. Yeah, even tithing. It's not mentioned in the New Testament after the day of Pentecost. These are all finished with Christ. Colossians 2 says it is a shadow, and the reality has come in Christ. So the Old Testament is very necessary to learn from the way God dealt with Israel and the mistakes that they made. To learn how sin originated. And how seriously God took sin in Israel. And how the prophets spoke against sin all the time. All the prophets spoke against sin. And that is how I identify a true prophet of God today. He will speak against sin, not prophesy the future. Very few prophets in the Old Testament prophesied the future. Elijah was one of the greatest prophets. He never said a word about the future. He spoke against sin. And the worship of idols, anything other than the true God. But now the promises of the Old Testament, should we claim them? There we must discern what was particularly for Israel and what is for us. God promised Israel many earthly blessings. Their harvest would be plentiful. Their lands would prosper. They would never get into debt to anybody. They would be the highest of all the nations in the world. They would have a great harvest. They would have an earthly land called Canaan. And God would bless them with prosperity. And healing, I am the Lord your healer. But every blessing was an earthly blessing. He never promised them heaven. He never promised them victory over sin in their life. He never promised them anything spiritual. So when we come into the New Testament, we must remember that those promises were for Israel. For example, if you read in the Psalms, the Psalmist says, Lord destroy my enemies. How do we apply that today? Yeah, my enemies are the lusts in my flesh. Or the devil and his demons. If I recognize those as enemies today, then you can read the Psalms properly. But if you think it's your troublesome neighbor that the Psalmist is talking about, then you misunderstood the Old Testament. So you need to read it with wisdom. That's what I would say about Old Testament promises. But some of the finest promises are found in the book of Isaiah. Isaiah is like a little Bible. 66 chapters. Like 66 books. And Isaiah is divided into two parts. 39 chapters and then 27 chapters. And the first 39 chapters is dealing with Isaiah. The first 39 chapters are about Israel. And the next 27 chapters are mostly about the New Testament. New covenant. Isaiah is a sort of miniature Bible. The last 27 chapters, chapters 40 to 66, have got some of the finest New Covenant promises in the whole Old Testament. And then there are some prophetic promises. Habakkuk 2, verse 4, The righteous shall live by faith. Some of those promises are looking to the future. Or Jeremiah 31, I will make a new covenant. Or Ezekiel 36, I will give you a new heart and a new spirit. So these are fulfilled in the New Testament. So we need to read the Bible with discernment. And see where New Covenant comes in and where is Old Covenant. And see where Old Covenant comes in and where is New Covenant. The next question is, Can you explain the second half of Romans chapter 7? We have discussed this in a very fruitful way with the young people. And I would like to repeat a little bit of that. This is the gospel in the entire New Testament. And I will quickly give you a review of the whole thing. If you go to my website, you can listen to this. You know, it's available there freely. But Romans chapter 1 deals with the godless worldly sinner. And Romans chapter 2 says the godly religious person is also a sinner. A religious Jewish person is also a sinner. So he is saying, whether you are a worldly person or a religious person, Romans 3.23, all have sinned. Then he speaks about forgiveness. And chapter 4 and chapter 5 about how we are justified, declared righteous before God. Now, it's not enough to be justified. Justified means the righteousness of Christ is put over us like a dress or put to our account. That righteousness which God puts to our account must become our own over a period of time. The righteousness that is imputed to us must be imparted to us. One is called justification and the other is sanctification. Justification is immediate, as soon as you are born again. Sanctification is progressive and takes a lifetime. We become more and more and more like Christ. We get more and more light on sin in our life and become more and more Christ-like. So, you can stop at Romans 5. You are born again justified. You are saved. You'll go to heaven. But it's like finishing your education in the kindergarten class. How many of you would like your children to finish their education at kindergarten? How many of you would like your children to finish their education at kindergarten? They have learned A, B, C, D. And they can add a little bit. But you don't want your children to stop there with their education. And God doesn't want His children to stop there either. God wants His children to get a spiritual PhD, every one of them. And you can't get that in one year. But if you press on, press on, press on, you can get it. And just like in the world, people drop out of their education at different levels. And Christians also drop out at different chapters in Romans. And you choose at which chapter you drop out. Some people, they drop out after chapter 5, that's all. Kindergarten is enough for me. My sins are all forgiven. I'm justified. I'm going to heaven. That's all that matters. But there are others who say God didn't stop Romans with chapter 5. From Romans 5 you go to Romans 6. And Romans 6 deals with overcoming sin. And it talks about baptism. Baptism is a testimony, it says in Romans 6, 6, that you should not be a slave to sin anymore. It's not a testimony just to my having sins being forgiven. It's a testimony that my old man is buried. It's a very important testimony because Jesus commanded us to go into all the world and baptize people. Romans 6, 4 says you are buried with him in baptism. How do you bury a man? Not by sprinkling sand on his head. That's not baptism. You don't bury anybody by sprinkling sand on their head. You put a man six feet underneath. He's completely buried. That's the only type of baptism. That's the baptism Jesus had. That's the only way to baptize. That's the baptism of Jesus. Because it symbolizes burial. And resurrection. And that's why you don't read about child baptism in the Bible. And we should be careful not to add to Scripture. We must be very exact with Scripture. We must not add or subtract anything. Because Cornelius and his household were baptized, don't say there must have been babies there. That is adding to Scripture. When you say the Philippian jailer was baptized with his household, don't add there must have been babies there. I can show you numerous households in the world where there are no babies. Where all the children are over 16 years old. So, very often we've got an idea in our head and we look in Scripture to prove the idea we already have. Then you'll be like the Thessalonians and not like the Bereans. So Romans 6 speaks about overcoming sin. And like you were slaves of sin, Romans 6, 17. You know what it is to be a slave of sin? Romans 6, 17. Sin says, do this, you do it. Sin says, get angry. And you say, yes, I'll get angry. Sin says, lust after that woman. Yes, I will lust after that woman. Or sin says, don't forgive that person. You say, yes, I'll obey you, I won't forgive that person. Be jealous of that person who is better than you. Yes, sir, I will obey you, I will be jealous of that person. That is a slave of sin. That is now, verse 18, 6, 18. You can be freed from sin and become a slave of righteousness. What does it mean to be a slave of righteousness? Righteousness says, forgive that man. Yes, I will forgive that person. Righteousness says, turn your eyes away from that filthy picture. Yes, I will turn it away. Righteousness says, don't click on that website. You know where that's going to go. You say, yes, I know where that's going to go, I don't want to go there. Righteousness says, love that enemy of yours. Yes, I'll do that. Do good to that troublesome neighbor of yours. Yes, I'll do that. Humble yourself and keep your mouth shut. When somebody is angry with you. I'll do that. That's a slave of righteousness. Romans 6 is dealing with how slaves of sin become slaves of righteousness. Romans 6, 17 and 18. That is God's will. Now, in the Old Testament, people were forgiven their sin, but they could not become slaves of righteousness. As human beings, we have two problems. One is our past, the other is our future. In the past, we have the guilt of so many millions of sins we have committed. God's solution for that is, He sent the second person of the Trinity to die for our sins. Then we have another problem in the future. That is this thing the Bible calls the flesh, our nature, which keeps on sinning and sinning and sinning, even after we are born again. This flesh. This is our second problem, which makes us sin. The solution for that is, God sends the third person of the Trinity. The solution for our past is the second person of the Trinity. The solution for the future is the third person of the Trinity, who comes and dwells in us. The Holy Spirit. The Spirit of Christ. To give us power inside, to overcome this nature. But before we come into that life, we understand that we have now got to be finished with sin and be slaves of righteousness. Many people who pursue after this righteousness and holiness, instead of coming into the freedom of nature, instead of coming into the freedom of the Holy Spirit, they begin to enter holiness in a spirit of the law. And that's what the first half of Romans 7 is dealing with. These are people who have come beyond Romans 6. You see, from the 6th grade you go to the 7th grade. You don't go back to the 3rd grade. And I have seen this throughout my life. That's the way I went myself. In my pursuit of holiness, I went from Romans 6 to Romans 7. I tried to keep God's commandments in the spirit of the law. And my life was pretty miserable. Everything I would try to do these things, and I was very demanding on other people also. And I use the picture of three marriages. In our unconverted days, we are married to what the Bible calls the old man. The old man is a very wicked husband. He tells me to do all types of wrong things. He tells me to sin, sin, sin, sin every day. That's our unconverted state. He teaches me to be crooked and wicked. And many years I enjoy living with this wicked husband. But then a time came in our life that we got fed up of this wicked husband. And we wanted to be free from this wicked husband. That was the time in your life when you wanted to get converted. And then God did something in your life. He killed that husband. It says in Romans 6, verse 6, The old man is dead. Potentially on the cross 2,000 years ago. And actually when you received Christ. And I'm free now from that old man. And in baptism I'm testifying that the old man is dead and buried. And I come out of the water testifying that a new man has come now. What is the old man and what is the new man? The old man is the mind that wanted to sin. The new man is what God has put inside what is called a new creation, that mind that does not want to sin. The old man is different from the flesh. God killed the old man on the cross 2,000 years ago. But Galatians 5, 24 says we have to kill the flesh. There's a difference between the old man and the flesh. The old man was pictured in the Old Testament by the armies of Pharaoh. God killed them in a moment. The Israelites did nothing. The armies of Pharaoh were buried under the Red Sea. 1 Corinthians 10 says the Israelites were baptized in the Red Sea. Because that was a picture of the old man buried there. God did it. Armies of Pharaoh. But then the flesh is represented by the giants of Canaan. God doesn't kill them. The Israelites have to kill them. Joshua is another word for Jesus. Joshua took the Israelites into the land of Canaan. That's the land of victory. That's the land of the new covenant. The wilderness is the land of the old covenant. Joshua leads people into Canaan and tells the Israelites, you have to kill the giants. That took many years. That is sanctification. But they had to kill those giants in the power of God. God was willing to help them and said, you must kill all the giants in Canaan. But 600,000 Israelites died and said, no, no, no, they are too strong for us. Just like 600,000 believers will say today, we can't have victory over sin. But two people, Joshua and Caleb said, no, with the power of God, we can kill them. And I've seen the same today. Out of 600,000 believers, you'll find two believers who say, we can overcome anger. We can overcome the lust of the eyes. We can overcome an unforgiving spirit. We can overcome jealousy. We can overcome the love of money. We can overcome telling lies. We can overcome seeking the honor of men. Those are the two people I want to follow. Because if I follow the other 600,000, I'll spend my life in the wilderness. But when I follow Joshua and Caleb, I'm not going to kill all the giants in one day. I don't overcome every sin in my life in one day. As I see a giant, and by faith I can kill him. But there may be 100 other giants hidden in the caves of Canaan that I don't see yet. There is conscious sin and unconscious sin. When I talk about victory over sin, I can only talk about conscious sin. The giants that I can see. How can I kill a giant whom I cannot see? When I see him, I can kill him. So, sanctification is progressive. As you kill the giants, you occupy more and more of the land of Canaan. The land of Canaan today is your body. Your body is almost shaped like the land of Canaan if you look at a map. And this land has been ruled by many giants. Anger, bitterness, jealousy, unforgiving spirits, love of money, loving other things more than God. These are all giants. Sexual lust, many things like this. And the Lord says, go in and possess that land. From Dan to Beersheba, the whole land must belong to me. That means from head to foot. Every giant has to be killed. You won't kill them in one day, I know. But with my power, you can overcome all of them. And then you'll find this land is a land flowing with milk and honey. A land from where rivers of living water will flow out. So, that's God's goal. So, there's a difference between the old man and the flesh. The flesh, we can say, is like a gang of robbers that's seeking to come inside my heart. If I don't kill them, I think of my heart as a house. The old man is like an unfaithful servant who lives inside the house and opens the door. He is not the robber. The robbers come from outside. They are in my flesh. They are trying to enter my heart. But in my unconverted days, I had an old man, an old servant who would always open the door. Lust would come knocking and say, sure, come in. Anger would come knocking and the old man would say, come in. Bitterness would come knocking and the old man would say, come in. Selfishness, pride, everything came knocking and the old man would open the door. But thank God, one day God killed the old man. That's Romans 6. And then he put a new man there who does not want to open the door for these robbers. Now the flesh is still alive. All the robbers are hale and hearty, even in a believer's life. And they knock. If you are born again, even though your old man is dead, the robbers, the lusts in the flesh are still hale and hearty. And they come knocking at your door even after you are born again. But now there is a new man inside. He says, no, I'm not going to let you in. But, if the old man is lazy, if you are born again, if the old man is lazy, sorry, the new man, the new man is lazy, goes to sleep, or doesn't eat properly, or doesn't exercise and keep his muscles strong, he doesn't have the strength to keep the door shut. And so the robbers push their way and come inside. So even though you are, there is a new man in your heart, you don't feed him with the word of God, you don't seek to be filled with the Holy Spirit continuously, then you are not strong. And then the robbers come in. That's how a believer also falls. Now there's a lot of difference between a believer falling and an unbeliever falling. When an unbeliever falls into sin, it's like a pig falling into the dirty water. He enjoys it. You know, a pig falls into dirty water and says, this is great, I just love this. But when a believer falls into the dirty water, it's like a cat falling into the dirty water. No cat will stay in that water even for one second. What does it do? It jumps out and then it licks itself clean. Have you seen cats? They are the same all over the world. Anytime you see them, they are always licking themselves clean. That's the mark of a believer. He wants total cleanliness. Can cats fall into dirty water? Sure. Can a believer fall into sin? Sure. But you'll find out whether they are believers or not in how they react after they fall. If in the night I hear an animal falling into water, I can know whether it's a pig or a cat. By seeing who jumps out. You can find out whether you're a believer or not by what is your reaction after you've fallen into sin. It's not that you never fall. In fact, if you're faithful and you keep the new man strong, your fall will become less and less and less and less. But in your pursuit of holiness, you can get married to the law. Your first marriage is to this old man who always made you sin. God killed him. Instead of marrying Christ by mistake, you married the law. The law is not like the old man. The law is so righteous. Always demanding that you do the right thing. Never asks you to commit one sin. But his standards are so high. This husband tells you as the wife, I want my breakfast at 8 o'clock in the morning. It must be well cooked. Not at 8 o'clock in the morning. The law is very demanding. The shoes must be perfectly polished. The clothes must be perfectly washed and ironed. There must not be a spot of dust anywhere in the house. And this poor wife says, how can I live with this man? The old man made me sin. I thought I married this man who wants everything perfect, but I find it's impossible to live with him. I tell you, living under the law is a tremendous bondage. He never asks you to do anything wrong. But you're married to him. And you can't be free from him because the law will never die. The law of God is eternal. He has no blood pressure, no diabetes. He's going to live forever. He's a very healthy husband. And the wife is feeling miserable. How will I live with this man for the rest of my life? I married the wrong person. I thought it was Christ, but it wasn't Christ. This is the condition of many believers. They are married to standards and rules. They're not married to Jesus Christ. Good laws. Good rules. They're so demanding on others, you must follow these rules. Because they themselves are living under this burden. It is to such people that Jesus said, come to me all you who labor and are heavy laborers. Under the yoke of the law. How does God deliver us from the law? With the old man it was easy. God could kill the old man. But the second marriage to the law, God will never kill the law. So what does God do? He kills the wife. And the marriage is ended. God does a wonderful thing. There is no problem too hard for God. It says as long as you're married to a person, as long as your husband lives, you have to be married to him forever. You can't divorce your husband. But if her husband dies, then she can be married. But the law never dies. So what does God do? What does God do? Romans 7 verse 4 You, the wife, are now dead. Dead before the law. So that, and what does God do then? He raises you up from the dead. The old marriage is broken. And now you can marry Christ. Then you come into the freedom of the spirit. And that is what he describes in Romans chapter 8. So in the latter half of Romans 7, many people think, this is the life of the believer. That I keep on sinning. I keep on telling lies. I keep on lusting after women. I keep on losing my temper. Well, you can extend it and say I keep on committing murder also. There's no difference between anger and murder. Maybe you commit physical adultery too. There's no difference between lusting with the eyes and committing physical adultery in God's eyes. And that becomes the excuse for many people to keep on living in sin. They say, Paul also was like this. He was doing things he didn't want to do. Whenever you go to scripture to find an excuse for your sin, the devil will help you to find it. Because you forgot the first promise in scripture. You shall call his name Jesus because he came to save his people from their sin. If you forget how the New Testament begins with that first promise, you'll get all types of wrong interpretations even in Romans 7. The most important verse in the second half of Romans is Romans 7, verse 15. Please listen. It says in verse 15, I don't know what I'm doing. I don't understand what I'm doing. This is not me practicing it. It's something I didn't understand. I understand it after it's done. It's speaking of a whole area of unconscious sin in our life. There are two types of sin in our life. Conscious, unconscious. Conscious is about 10%, unconscious is about 90%. It's like a cube of ice in a glass of water. What 10% is above the surface, 90% you can't see. It's like the difference between the giants in Canaan you can see and the 90% of giants you can't see. So he's talking here not about conscious sin. He's talking about things which are un-Christlike but which he doesn't have light on. And very often he gets light on it after he's done it. And we can look at it like this. Here are things that I hate. What is it I hate? I want to be like Jesus from head to foot and I hate everything un-Christlike in my life. Even though I hate everything un-Christlike in my life I find myself sometimes that I have done something un-Christlike. He's not talking about adultery and murder in this section. You can't say about adultery I don't know what I was doing. You can't say when you commit murder that which I'm doing I don't understand. When you go to a pornographic website you can't say that which I'm doing I don't understand. When you lust after a woman you can't say that which I'm doing I don't understand. Remember this whole section is headed with that which I'm doing I don't understand. It's not talking about sin that you know. There are many things for example supposing you said something to your wife with a good intention no evil intention but your wife misunderstood it or it could be the other way your husband and he misunderstood it You didn't want to hurt her but afterwards when you think about what you said you say I realized that could be misunderstood in a wrong way I didn't understand it I didn't want to hurt her but I did It was not deliberate conscious hurting her It was unconscious without understanding but it was still un-Christlike so you have to apologize to your wife or husband and that's just one area and like that little by little we get discovered so many things in our life which are un-Christlike Maybe you don't speak anything evil in your conversation and you think you're very holy but when maybe people come to visit your home you dominate the conversation so much that you don't let other people talk There are some people like that They don't speak evil you go to their house and they talk and talk and talk all good things they never give you a chance to open your mouth but they don't feel guilty about it because they say I never spoke evil about anybody I never got angry I never said anything sinful then afterwards if they're really walking in the light the Holy Spirit will show them you didn't say anything sinful that was right but you dominated the conversation so much you didn't allow that poor person to talk and then then you say like Paul oh what a wretched man that I am no I didn't understand that that was un-Christlike and you cleanse yourself and the next time those people come to visit your house you're a little more silent and they say what happened to the sister she became a little more Christlike that is sanctification it's progressive and I'm just giving you one or two examples so that's what he's talking about here he says I agree with the law it's good but there's a sin in my flesh which I'll have until Jesus comes again and sometimes it'll come up without my wanting it see for example let me explain two types of anger for example you can sometimes think about something that somebody has done to you and you lie down in bed at night and you think now I'm going to meet that fellow tomorrow and I'm going to tell him this and I'm going to tell him that and I'm going to tell him the other thing or maybe your husband is late from work and you're really upset because you had a very tough day as a wife and you say ma I'm so late and he hasn't come he hasn't come and you're all upset and you say when he comes I'm going to tell him this and I'm going to tell him this and I'm going to tell him this and as soon as he opens the door the explosion takes place that was planned anger you can't say I didn't understand what I said you understood every word you planned it for one hour before he came home or it could be the other way the husband planning to say something to somebody's wife or somebody else but there's another type of anger where you decide I never want to be angry in my life but some sudden provocation from your children or something and you flare up you say an angry word and immediately like the cat you jump out of oh God I'm a wretched man why did I lose my temper and you shoot out your gun oh what did I say God sees a difference that was not planned that's what you never wanted to do but you slipped and fell that's what Romans 7 is about so don't use that section to justify all types of sin in your life and every time you slip up like this you'll say oh wretched man that I am so what shall we do till the end of our life we will have this flesh which is always serving the law of sin Romans 7 25 but my mind is determined to serve the law of God but the wonderful thing is Romans 8 1 I don't feel condemned about it because my mind is determined to serve the law of God and once in a while I accidentally slip up like the cat I jump out and cleanse myself and that's why Paul could say 1 Timothy 1 15 he said I am the chief of sinners the closer you get to God the more you see sin in your life in 1 Corinthians 15 when Paul was about 55 years old he said this 1 Corinthians 15 9 I am the least of all the apostles 5 years later when he is 60 years old he says in Ephesians 3 8 he has gone down lower now he was least of the apostles when he was 55 5 years later he says I am the least of all the saints another 5 years later in 1 Timothy 1 15 when he is 65 he goes still lower he says I am the worst of all the sinners was he backsliding no he had become much holier at 65 than he was at 60 but that's what happens when you walk in the light not stand still in the light to stand still in the light is to be in kindergarten forever to walk in the light means you go to 1st grade, 2nd grade, 3rd grade 7th grade, college, PhD and the closer you get to God the more you see sin in your life and when you get really close to God you feel you are the greatest sinner on earth I felt like that many times not when I was a young Christian when I was a young Christian I thought I was pretty holy when I got married I discovered what a selfish person I was as time went on I discovered more and more things that I got closer to God so this is the paradox of the Christian life that the closer you get to God you feel you are the greatest sinner of all a person who thinks he is very holy must be quite far from God another question is what about these promises like psalm 40, verse 8 where it looks as if it is a new covenant way of speaking psalm 40, verse 8 says I delight to do thy will, O God thy law is within my heart psalm 40, verse 8 in Dutch it is 9 psalm 40, verse 9 I delight to do thy will, O God thy law is within my heart now I want you to read the bible very carefully what is he saying? I delight to do thy will Now, the same verse, when it is quoted in Hebrews chapter 10, this is a quotation from Psalm 40. Psalm 40, verse 6, sacrifice an offering God doesn't desire, turn to Hebrews 10, verse 5. Now, it is a new covenant, when Jesus comes into the world, he is quoting Psalm 40 now, sacrifice an offering you haven't desired, but verse 7, verse 7, Lord behold I have come to do thy will O God, again repeated in verse 9, behold I have come to do thy will, what was it in the Old Testament, I delight, I have a desire to do thy will, but I don't have the ability, what is it in Hebrews 10, I have the ability, I can do your will, many people in the Old Testament said, I delight to do your will, but what to do, I can't do it, and if you are a Christian who says, I long to do God's will, but I can't do it, you are in the Old Covenant, you are in Psalm 40, Jesus said, I have come to actually do it, because he had the Holy Spirit within, in the Old Testament they had the Holy Spirit upon, they couldn't do God's will, even though they had a desire to do it, so today we follow Jesus, and we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we can say both, I delight to do your will, and I can do your will, so that's the difference. Another question is concerning Micah 7, verse 19, we know, doesn't it say even in the Old Testament that your sins can be cleansed, no, sin was only covered in the Old Testament, Micah 7, 19 says you will cast your sins into the depths of the sea, that's not cleansing, you can throw something into the depths of the sea and pull it out again, but cleansing, like removing from a blackboard, you can never get it back in, it's gone forever. There is no cleansing from sin in the Old Testament. Another question is, what is the place of law in the New Covenant? Let's turn to Romans chapter 8, we looked at Romans 7, in Romans 8 verse 2 it says about the law of the Spirit, now the law of the Spirit is different from the law of Moses, the law of the Moses had 10 commandments, the law of the Spirit is not commandments, it's not rules, it's not rules saying you shall not watch this television program, you shall not watch this movie, or you must dress like this, or you can't do this or you can't go there, touch not, taste not, handle not, that's not, those are all finished. Now in the law of the Spirit, it's a life in Christ Jesus, it's not commandments, it's a life, and the life tells me, when I'm watching a TV program, Jesus will not watch that, change the channel, close, shut it down, or when I'm reading a book, this life tells me Jesus won't read that, throw it away, or all the time he tells me Jesus wouldn't speak like that, go and apologize, no rules, life, the law of the Spirit is life in Christ Jesus, that sets me free from the law of sin, I'll give you an example from some things in India, my wife used to work with leprosy people for many years, and I learned something about people who have leprosy, you know when people have leprosy, they lose sensation in their hands, in their feet, they can put a hand on a hot plate, not feel anything, and the hand will be burned, then they can have a thorn go into their foot, they don't feel anything, so for people with leprosy, we have to give commandments, examine your foot every night before you go to bed, see if there are any thorns inside, don't put your hand on a hot plate, why, because they have no sensation, but do you need commandments like that, do you need a commandment that says don't put your hand on a hot plate, why, why don't you need it, because you got life, as soon as you touch the hot plate your hand comes off, that will be your reaction to sin when you have the life of Jesus, as soon as a thorn gets into your foot, you pull it out, you don't need a commandment which says examine your foot every night to see if there are any thorns there, it's people who don't have a sensation for sin who need commandments, the Holy Spirit brings the life of Jesus in me, you don't need a list of 100 movies that you should not watch, because if you make that list tomorrow, that list will be 200, and it will never end, but when you have the life of Jesus inside, you don't need any list, automatically you'll feel that's wrong, that's not the way to speak to my wife, that's not the way to speak to my children, that's not the way to speak to my brother, that's not even the way to speak to a stranger, that is a bit unrighteous the way you're dealing with that money, according to the law I'm right, but the Spirit says, yeah, but Jesus wouldn't deal with money like that, He won't put a signature on that document, see, if you really want to live by the highest standard, you must live by the law of the Spirit, and when the Holy Spirit fills us, it says here, verse 4, the requirement of the law is now fulfilled inside us, in the Old Testament it was fulfilled outside, the Ten Commandments was outside, don't murder, don't commit adultery, don't worship idols, keep the Sabbath, honor your father and mother, don't take the Lord's name in vain, don't steal, don't bear false witness, nine commandments, the tenth one was inward, don't covet your neighbor's wife, don't covet your neighbor's daughter, or in other words, don't lust after any woman, why did God keep that one commandment at the bottom, which is an inward commandment, to test the Israelites, to see how many people will be honest and say, Lord, I can keep nine commandments, I cannot keep the tenth. God found a few people in Israel like that, one was Paul, one was Paul, he says in Romans 7 and verse 7, I could keep all the commandments, when it came to the tenth commandment, I just couldn't keep it, I found all types of lusts in my heart, in verse 8, God said, there is an honest man, honest man, I will lead him to victory, God tests you to see whether you're honest, to acknowledge failure in your life, and when you acknowledge failure, and say, Lord, I'm a wretched man because there's sin inside me, He gives us the power of the spirit, so that the righteous requirement of the law, verse 8-4, is fulfilled inside us now, so that the law is now fulfilled inside me, and if it is fulfilled inside me, by the Holy Spirit, then I don't need the ten commandments outside, so some people have this question, should we read the ten commandments in the church? I think the answer is yes, because most people don't live by the spirit, 90% of Christians don't live by the spirit, they need to hear the ten commandments every day, I think, not just once a week, you see Galatians chapter 5, what is it saying? Verse 18, if you are led by the Holy Spirit, only then you're not under the law, if you're led by the Holy Spirit, you don't need the ten commandments, because the commandments are fulfilled inside, Romans 8-4, let me give you an example, if I'm listening to the prompting of the spirit 24 hours a day, that the life of Jesus makes me turn my eyes away at the moment I'm tempted to lust after a woman, I don't need a commandment which says don't commit adultery, there is zero possibility of my committing adultery, because I'm listening to the spirit, if I'm listening to the Holy Spirit which says, as soon as I'm tempted to say an angry word to somebody, the Holy Spirit says shut your mouth, don't say that, and anger comes up in my heart, the Holy Spirit says get rid of that anger, and I get rid of it, I don't need a commandment which says don't kill, because there's absolutely no danger of my killing anybody, or thou shalt not bear false witness in court, but when you put your hand on a bible, you must always speak the truth, I mean I don't need that, when the Holy Spirit tells me your yes must always be yes, your no must always be no, I remember when I had an agreement, a money transaction with somebody, and I just gave him my word of mouth, that's all, I hadn't yet signed the agreement, and before I signed the agreement, I found the value had gone up, then I could have asked him for more, I said no, I'm a Christian, my yes is yes, my no is no, even if I lose money, I gave him my word, and as a Christian, if I give my word, it is as good as a signed document, of course he was very happy, that he was dealing with a Christian, I don't need a law which says when you put your hand on the bible, speak the truth, you don't need the ten commandments, if you are keeping them inside, that's the meaning, if you are led by the Holy Spirit, you are free from the law, but if you are not led by the spirit, which is the condition of 90 percent of believers, they need the ten commandments every single day, until they learn to live by the sermon on the mount, the other question is, you said that we need faith to receive from Christ, but didn't just Jesus say it is finished on the cross, did Jesus die for the sins of the whole world? 1 John 2 says that very clearly, he has the propitiation not only for our sins, but for the sins of the whole world, Jesus didn't die only for the sins of believers, 1 John 2 verse 2 is very clear, for the sins of the whole world it says, but why is it 90 percent of people in the world don't have their sins forgiven? They don't believe, Jesus said it is finished, but they didn't believe, God told the Israelites in Egypt, I will take you out of Egypt, I will bring you into Canaan, why is it only half was fulfilled, because those 600,000 men believed only for half, they believed God would take them out of Egypt, so they put the blood outside the door, and the first part of the promise was fulfilled, they came to the borders of Canaan, now God was going to fulfill the second part of the promise, and the Lord said, go in, no, these giants are too strong, God said, go, into the wilderness, all of you will die, even though I promised you in Egypt, I will take you into Canaan, I will not take you there, because my promise is conditioned on your believing that I will do it, so, Christ may have said it is finished, but it doesn't work until we believe, in the new covenant, you come to a place where you never sin again, so that you never have to ask for forgiveness, wrong, I repent every day, I speak the truth before God, the closer I have come to God, the more my life is one of repentance every single day, many times I say, what a wretched man I am, I ask for forgiveness, I ask for the blood of Jesus to cleanse me, every day, but it's not the same sins that I committed one year ago, or five years ago, it's a progression, think of a student studying mathematics, first he's getting his problems of addition wrong, how much is five plus four? seven, no, that's wrong, eight, that's also wrong, finally he gets it right, nine, now, twenty years later, if he's still saying five plus four is seven, something is wrong, twenty years later, he may be struggling with calculus, or difficult things in mathematics, he's still struggling, but not with the same addition and subtraction, he first struggles with addition, then subtraction, then multiplication, then division, then square root, and so many other things like that, it's a struggle, but struggling at different levels, in every class he's getting his problems wrong, but it's not the same problem that he had in kindergarten, and a person who's progressing in the Christian life, he's confessing his sin, but it's not the same sins he did twenty years ago, twenty years ago he was shouting at his wife, and he's confessing that, he's not confessing that now, he's finished with all this addition and subtraction, he's confessing more subtle things of selfishness, and pride, and little little things which other believers don't even think about, a PhD student is struggling with mathematics, with things which a kindergarten student doesn't know anything about, do you know what was the last word of Jesus to the churches in Revelation, to five of the churches, you read in Revelation 2 and 3, repent, to churches, to elders, write to the messenger of the church in so and so place, repent, if we are walking with God, if we walk in the light, not stand still in the light, walk and progress in the light, we will get more and more light on the many unconscious sins in our life, to use the illustration of the ice cube, the ten percent on top, if you take a knife and cut it off, what will happen? something underneath will come up, right? something unconscious in your life will become conscious, not everything, just ten percent, you take a knife and slice off that, what happens? some more comes up, that is sanctification, that is sanctification, maybe you are dealing with the first ten percent of your life for twenty years, the other brother is repenting he has already cleansed out forty percent, and another brother is after twenty five years already forty percent ready, our life must be one of continuous repentance, that is another question, does it mean I have not repented fully? well, it is possible to have repented fully in the beginning, and to backslide, I know many believers who were very wholehearted when they were converted, ten years later they are permitting sins in their life they would never have permitted when they were first converted, they have gone backwards, maybe because they mixed with other people who were half-hearted and they became like them, you know there is a saying that one rotten apple can spoil a whole basket of apples, that is why you got to be careful that you mingle with people who are pursuing after righteousness, another question is when does the victorious life become a law, you must do this and you must do that, that is when you are married to the law, you got to die to that and be married to Christ, Christ also says like I said breakfast must be ready at 8 o'clock the shoes must be perfectly clean but there is a difference he says let me help you to do it and he helps me and I am the lazy person who makes breakfast ready only at 12 o'clock and the law says don't worry I will help you and after one year of struggle I manage to make breakfast by 11 o'clock and the Lord says don't worry we will work on this and one year later I have made it to 10 o'clock and a couple of years later praise the Lord I am able to make breakfast at 8 o'clock I have kept the law not by myself Jesus helped me he did 99% and I did 1% I boiled the water and he did everything else it is wonderful to work with Jesus he does most of the work to be married to Christ is so different from being married to the law next question what is the difference between the Holy Spirit on you and in you in John chapter 14 Jesus said it very clearly and I say it again you have to read the Bible slowly I think many of you have received a new Bible this weekend and yet it was there in your Bible all your life and you never saw it because the devil blinded your eyes but praise the Lord the scales are falling off from your eyes now John 14 the Holy Spirit verse 17 is called the spirit of truth the last part of that verse listen carefully now he is with you in that day he will be in you that is on the day of Pentecost with you means outside in you means inside with you will help you in various ministries you see that in Samson the spirit was upon him and the lion came against him he caught the lion and tore it to pieces next day not a lion Delilah comes and she tears Samson in pieces who is stronger a woman or a lion that is not really the question which is stronger the external lion or the lion of lust inside Samson's heart that lion of lust Samson could not conquer external lions no problem remember this when the Holy Spirit comes in you can overcome sin inside this is a personal question now personal question brother Zach do you never get angry you got to ask my wife that and ask her to speak the truth and ask her to give an honest answer when I got angry sorry I said when I got angry when I got married 5 o'clock we finish when I got married I was defeated by sin I was born again but I was defeated and I used to get angry with my wife and with others I was in a pit just like anybody else I used to grumble, complain but I read in the scriptures Ephesians 4 31 put away all anger Philippians 2 verse 14 put away all murmuring and complaining and I said Lord I want to live that life but I can't it took many years but I believe I can say today I can't think that I consciously grumble or complain about anything I can't say I do it my testimony is Jesus keeps me from falling not I have overcome that Jesus keeps me from falling and it's true I had a goal in my life I said Lord 365 days of the year I must never raise my voice at my wife I want to be Christ like in my home whether things go right or things go wrong the only serious thing is sin if things are broken, things are lost it's not important everything goes wrong it doesn't matter I should not sin what shall I say Jesus is faithful he keeps me from falling the question is what about Peter he denied the Lord that's right that was before the day of Pentecost did Paul fall yes we read towards the end of his life he shouted at a high priest once but like the cat he jumped out immediately he said I didn't realize that I'm sorry I want to say a word about the baptism in the Holy Spirit see baptism is a word which means immersion and God wants to fill us with the Holy Spirit I'll conclude with that question when you're born again the Holy Spirit comes in because when you ask Jesus to come into your heart Jesus is in heaven with a body who comes into your heart the Holy Spirit he is the representative of Jesus on earth when you ask Jesus to come into your heart it's the Spirit who comes in you know that it's not the physical Jesus he is in heaven if the Spirit of Christ does not come into your heart you're not even born again then what is this baptism and what is the baptism in the Holy Spirit as if you are immersed you are immersed in a river and you are also immersed when you are under a waterfall and the Holy Spirit is like the most powerful waterfall in the world which flows from heaven to earth if you come under that you are immersed in the Holy Spirit you can use this illustration your heart is like a hotel building with a hundred rooms you see across the river a hotel building with a hundred windows and in one room there is light is there light in that hotel? yes is it filled with light? no your heart is like a house with a hundred rooms you ask Jesus to come in the Holy Spirit comes in you've asked him to come to forgive your sin that's one room he's forgiven your sin now he's knocking and behold I stand at the door and knock that's a word spoken to believers by the way in Revelation 3 it was not spoken to unbelievers it was spoken to believers it was spoken to an elder brother why is he knocking? another one of the 99 rooms let me come into your television room you say no Lord, I want to watch a few things without you that room remains dark let me come into your library see the books you are reading no Lord, please don't come there that room remains dark you have the habit of eating too much you are a glutton, let me come there no Lord, don't control my eating don't tell me to fast and all that type of stuff no, the Lord won't come there that room remains dark now let me check whether you are paying your taxes properly whether you are cheating anybody your financial room let me check your bank account and your bank account and let me see if you are in debt to anybody do you owe anybody money and you say no Lord, don't interfere in all that that room remains dark when will you be filled with the Spirit not in a hundred years you can pray but you don't let Jesus in to occupy all these rooms how shall we be filled with the Spirit Lord, I yield everything to you some people, their ministry is their God my ministry is not my God I say Lord Jesus, you are my God I don't have any other God so when you yield every room to Jesus completely say Lord, take everything of me fill me he will fill you God bless you all let's pray Heavenly Father help us to have more and more light on your word that we can walk in the light all our days from one degree of glory to another we pray in Jesus name Amen
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Zac Poonen (1939 - ). Christian preacher, Bible teacher, and author based in Bangalore, India. A former Indian Naval officer, he resigned in 1966 after converting to Christianity, later founding the Christian Fellowship Centre (CFC) in 1975, which grew into a network of churches. He has written over 30 books, including "The Pursuit of Godliness," and shares thousands of free sermons, emphasizing holiness and New Testament teachings. Married to Annie since 1968, they have four sons in ministry. Poonen supports himself through "tent-making," accepting no salary or royalties. After stepping down as CFC elder in 1999, he focused on global preaching and mentoring. His teachings prioritize spiritual maturity, humility, and living free from materialism. He remains active, with his work widely accessible online in multiple languages. Poonen’s ministry avoids institutional structures, advocating for simple, Spirit-led fellowships. His influence spans decades, inspiring Christians to pursue a deeper relationship with God.