Nothing gets people going more than the bible translation debate:

I was reading today in acts how paul before the council declared he was of the persuasion and hope of the resurrection! the consequence was a great dissension arose and the sadducees and the pharisee's strove together ( as the sadducees denied angels, spirits, and the resurrection)

Hence when paul declared before both parties that he believed in the resurrection a huge tumult broke forth and ( the two sides) then fought amongst themselves - - - and strove together. hmmm

As i said does anything get people more wound up than ...bible versions?

And Some people are over it ...whilst others ...want to Go ...on with it:

Its an on-Going saga to be sure.

Some blame the KJV only people for all the backlash ( but thats harsh)

I still primarily read from KJV myself: (my choice of course)

My choice - my liberty - my spiritual right. (indeed)

As is your reading choice! in this matter:

Yes i admit (KJV) amongst other things is old now, the english is old - and. per se it might not be 100% flawless

But (what version is) ??

Still lately the Lord by his Spirit has been "ad-libbing" when i read from KJV - Meaning the Spirit of truth replaces that word for me in modern readable understandable english (God is God) and he is well cabable of doing this - for his children. Amen!

And not only that ...its cheaper ...way cheaper ( As a good hardback cover is not cheap) nowadays.

I dont have to keep forking out financially for the latest and greatest:

But one thing for sure in this running debate we should remember is -
If we bite and devour each other - take heed - that we be not consumed - the one of the other ( Galations ) hmmm

_________________
Bro Stephen

Hi sonofthunder

sonofthunder wrote ///"I was reading today in acts how paul before the council declared he was of the persuasion and hope of the resurrection! the consequence was a great dissension arose and the sadducees and the pharisee's strove together ( as the sadducees denied angels, spirits, and the resurrection)"///

The Resurrection of the dead is reality. (as is the inspiration of the scriptures.)
(Even though neither can be proven by things of sight)(and such views will be mocked.)

We must remember that Paul and Jesus defended both of these realities.

We must remember that Paul and Jesus did not avoid these issue's inorder to maintain unity with those whom differed with them in perspective.

Lets Read what Jesus says to the sadducees whom tempted him concerning the resurrection of the dead:

Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
33 And when the multitude heard this, they were astonished at his doctrine.

Jesus asked the sadducees "have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God"

We see Jesus by this statement making a deep point.
A point that is rejected by many on these forums.
He is attributing the scriptures that they read, as God personally speaking to them.

He is not telling them that, had they read the general theme of their scriptures that God would have spoken to them by revelation and revealed to them the resurrection of the dead.

But instead, He is specificaly speaking to specific individuals and telling them that what they read is God speaking personally to them.

The saduccess had read this account in Moses several times , they mabe even had it memorized. But they read it as people reading a novel or a book of rules.

They did not read it with faith and because they did not read it with faith, Jesus points out to them that they did not know scripture nor the power of God.

Jesus answer to the saduccee teaches them or more specifically teaches us today,(rom 15:4) about the Sovereignty of God, when it comes to His control of the Scriptures, even with the seemingly insignificant Jot and tittle.

Lets now Look at the Scripture, That Jesus used for proving the resurrection of the Dead.
(Do we trust Gods Sovereign hand over the minute detail to such a degree as this?)

"I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."

Jesus was not quoting from Moses original manuscript.
He was quoting from the scriptures that where available of His day. They where copys of copys of copys and even perhaps a translation into the Greek or Aramaic.

Do we see how this proves the resurrection of the dead?
(In these copys of copys, God so inspired such minute detail that the very word or even the tense of the verb as with (am) rather than (was) is profitable for correct doctrine.

That is astonishing (and that is why the multitudes were astonished at his doctrine.)

///Lets now Look at the Scripture, That Jesus used for proving the resurrection of the Dead.
(Do we trust Gods Sovereign hand over the minute detail to such a degree as this?)///

He spoke and said, "Lazarus come forth".

Lazarus, the brother of Mary and Martha. Lazarus counted as one of the many within the multitude that witness as he was crucified, hanging on the cross after being wiped and having his flesh torn, pieces of his flesh hanging, disfigured. The crown of thorns penetrating his forehead. The sword, that pierced his side, the blood that dripped, and the water that gushed out of him. The nails that pierced his hands and feet, the throbbing and burning sensation that he felt, could not be experienced by any one other then God himself, as an atonement for our sins. Lazarus, one of the many within the multitude that witness the joy of the risen Christ. Promised that on the third day he will resurrect, and he did. Hearts, flooding with hope and faith..countenance changing, eyes opening, minds mesmerized
and in awe of every word spoken, and every promised fulfilled...prophecy's spoken and prophecy's heard, coming to life once again. The Holy Spirit waiting, waiting to come and live within the believer, hearts being saturated and filled with love, lives being changed, multitude's crying out and worshiping, the King of Kings, and the Lord of Lord.

I used an anolagy from the book of acts regarding how the pharisee's and sadducees often got fired-up - over there views on the resurrection:

And the analogy was drawn from acts to illustrate how likewise we also get stirred and strive over the bible version debate.

I saw a parallel (in Acts) and it reminded me ...of our contentions over bible preference ...and how Geed-up ...we get and become.

The post was NOT really about the validity of the resurrection per se

Nevertheless and notwithstanding.

I thank you for your contribution.

God bless,

SOT

_________________
Bro Stephen

One thing i will add though is this ...and NOT trying to re- stir the pot.

But really (honestly) to say you'd take "the message bible"

if that's the ony choice ...you had ...and were left with:

I can just visualize Jesus sitting on a boat and the multitudes are gathered forth and round (for to hear him)

Now peter he beckons i left my volume of the books at Galilee ...

What you Got on you?

Peter replies: The Message bible Lord

Will that do ???

Its a bible isn't it? (so it will do)

Facious. perhaps

Point made (i hope so)

I do (myself)

draw the line (somewhere) you know:

In this whole free-for-all (take your pick)

Confusing debate: (confusing)?

Yes confusing with so many different trumpet blasts and

all making a different sound....to boot

I do have some (self-respect) left in me. when it comes down to wise judgment and juras prudence choice over (bible versions)

And besides peter did say even the jews in there own language and understanding of literary at that time (found pauls epistles hard to be understood)

But Like most things in life: we get lazy and look for short-cuts - and the EASY way out. Hence a para phrase bible is SO POPULAR and sells well.

We want answers and we want instant quick fixes.

We do this to understand pauls hard to be understood words 2 pet 3:16

Peter said it of paul: that his words were "hard to be understood" epistles

Thats coming from one jew about another (Jew)

Even peter struggled to understand pauls writings

But i chance and peradventure to say he wouldnt have said give me a "message bible" to help me get through this spiritual quagmire.

No short-cuts ...were taken.

And maybe it isnt given to everyone to "understand the mysteries of the kingdom" anyhow! Isnt that the implication - by Christ (himself) ???

But we dont want to study things out and meditate on them.

And wait upon the Lord.

We reach for something- a Gos-pill

To get instant help and relief.

_________________
Bro Stephen

Hi sonofthunder

sonofthunder wrote ///But really (honestly) to say you'd take "the message bible" if that's the ony choice ...you had ...and were left with: ///

Here is something that I posted in another thread:

""When I was young, I did not have a Bible, but started creating one in my head by listining to different people say the Bible says such and such.
Most of it actually was fairly accurate.

And than when I was about 10 I got a childs bible storys book from school during a Christmas book exchange, I devoured that Book

I read everything that I could find, I read alot of watchtower and Awake articales put out by the JW's
and actually invisioned becoming a JW going from house to house,preaching and prayed that if that where the right way, that God would open the doors to that direction, I also as a young boy read child stories and material by the christian science and Mary Baker Eddy. I also was facinated by Edgar Cayce This was my sources before about 14 years old

and in all of this confusion,

Much Truth was revealed to me and I believe God used the truth in much of this material and safe guarded me from much of the error,

(((but that does not mean that the material was safe.)))""

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=48237&forum=48&start=20&viewmode=flat&order=1


sonofthunder wrote //// I can just visualize Jesus sitting on a boat and the multitudes are gathered forth and round (for to hear him) Now peter he beckons i left my volume of the books at Galilee ...
What you Got on you? Peter replies: The Message bible Lord Will that do ??? Its a bible isn't it? (so it will do) Facious. perhaps Point made (i hope so)////

As far as I am aware we do not have any examples of Jesus having to deal with this subject that we are facing today. and here is one reason why:

"/Israel's reverence of God's word brought the creation of a copying system which is nothing less than astounding! The Levites had to create a system of making new copies of the Bible as old copies wore out and had to be destroyed. They knew it would be easy to make a mistake in copying a new transcript, so here is what they did. They developed elaborate and meticulous RULES for transcribing.

They decreed that when a person was making a new text, he had to copy the original page with such exactness that the number of words on a page could not be changed. If the original page had 288 words, then the page being copied had to have the same 288 words.

Each line on a new page had to be the exact same as the line on the old page. If the first line on the original page had nine words, the first line on the copy page had to have nine words.

After a page was copied, the number of letters on that page was counted and compared with the original.

After a page was copied, each letter was counted and compared with the original. After a page was copied, someone would check to see what the middle letter was on the copy and the original:

"A synagogue roll [remember that they did not have paper as we do today] must be written on the skins of clean animals, the length of each column must not extend less than 48 or more than 80 lines; the breadth must consist of 30 letters. No word or letter, not even a yod, must be written from memory... Between every consonant the space of a hair or thread must intervene, between every book three lines. Besides this the copyist must sit in full Jewish dress, and wash his whole body" (The Hebrew text of the Old Testament, Davidson).

The scribes were not allowed to copy sentence for sentence or even word for word. They had to copy LETTER for LETTER.

After a page was copied and checked by another, still a third person would check to see what the middle word was on the page. Then, when the whole book was finished, another would count the phrases.

These are just a few examples of the great detail that went into ensuring the accuracy of the Scriptures. There were many more steps taken in the process. All of this could be characterized as a:

"fence to the Scriptures (Massorah) because it locked all words and letters in their places... It records the number of times the several letters occur in the various books of the Bible; the number of words, and the middle word; the number of verses, and the middle verse; the number of expressions and combinations of words, etc... All this ...for the set purpose of safeguarding the Sacred Text, and preventing the loss or misplacement of a single letter or word" (Bullinger's Companion Bible).

These men had no worry whatsoever that there might have been an error. For that reason, they felt no more need to keep their older copies than a data processing manager feels a need to keep his older printouts when he knows his current hard copies are accurate./"
http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/how-was-old-testament-preserved.html



sonofthunder wrote //// I can just visualize Jesus sitting on a boat and the multitudes are gathered forth and round (for to hear him) Now peter he beckons i left my volume of the books at Galilee ...
What you Got on you? Peter replies: The Message bible Lord Will that do ??? Its a bible isn't it? (so it will do) Facious. perhaps Point made (i hope so)////


Matthew 5:5
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth

Eugene H. Petersons interpataion of Matthew 5:5
5 “You’re blessed when you’re content with just who you are—no more, no less. That’s the moment you find yourselves proud owners of everything that can’t be bought.

Are those saying the same things ??

Romans ch 15:13 Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost.


Eugene H. Petersons interpataion
Oh! May the God of (green) hope fill you up with joy, fill you up with peace, so that your believing lives, filled with the life-giving energy of the Holy Spirit, will brim over with hope!


Why is the Word (green) inserted in the text?


Eugene Petersons: "Why do people spend so much time studying the Bible? How much do you need to know? We invest all this time in understanding the text which has a separate life of it's own and we think we're being more pious and spiritual when we're doing it . . . . [Christians] should be studying it less, not more. You just need enough to pay attention to God . . . . I'm just not at all pleased with all the emphasis on Bible study as if it's some kind of special thing that Christians do, and the more they do the better." ["A Conversation with Eugene Peterson," "Mars Hill Review," Fall 1995, Issue No. 3: pgs 73-90.]" from the Bearen Call


Brother sonofthunder, the issue is not one of translation preference, as what many claim it to be. But the issue at hand is an issue of inerrancy.

I urge all to lay aside their preconceptions and simply to do an honest study of what the Scripture reveales of its own nature.