bro Frin
Greetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.

perhaps our slackness in enforcing law maybe to protect ourselves as we may well be guilty and thus subject to the punishment! all the same God would surely give us the recompense for our iniquity if we don't repent!

as for Christians in war, i would say let each man follow whatever God has decreed and find this out in prayer. Some are to bear the sword and others not according to what God desires. you believe fervently that you ought not take part in it and that's fine and i don't doubt that is God putting you where He wants you to be regarding that matter.

i had wanted to be a naval aviator at one time but God evidently had other plans and that never materialized. i don't see myself in the military unless God has it in mind and hasn't revealed it to me as yet.

Grace and Peace are ours in Jesus.AMEN.

_________________
Farai Bamu

Brethren, what you think of this testimony, could we get something from it, in the light of this subject:

[url=http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=6cfc29378e24829cddba&page=&viewtype=&category=]
Son of Sam/Son of hope - Part 1[/url]
[url=http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=197d28aaf795711fc8f6&page=&viewtype=&category=]Son of Sam/Son of hope - Part 2[/url]
[url=http://www.godtube.com/view_video.php?viewkey=cd1adab3a44996fd6b97&page=&viewtype=&category=]Son of Sam/Son of hope - Part 3[/url]

His site: www.forgivenforlife.com/

Thank you for you patience.
Please let me reply.


Those who claim to be: "concerned about an imbalance being represented in my statement." Could it be that you are more concerned for doctrine than Christ himself. This is a very emotive debate and one that we should not seek to be merely doctrinal correct.

It is conceded that Christ is the God of all Judgement, and that he will destroy the wicked.
It is conceded that He is the Law giver!

But the question of life is not a book of facts, figures or doctrines.
What does the law represent?
What do the great doctrines of the scriptures represent?
Are they not there as reveltions regarding the nature of Christ?
And was the revelation of Christ complete in the Old Testament?
When Phillip asked to see the Father, Christ said "Don't you know me Philip"

He is saying to Philip, all you need to know about God, the way He behaves, the way He ministers, the way He loves is seen, and can only be known in Me.

The ideals regarding the death penalty can only be understood in light of the MAN CHRIST JESUS, because we on both sides of the argument can offer conclusive "prooftexts" to enforce our own religious stands. However, the new creastion is compelled to think in light of this man from Nazareth, the one who preached hell to the religious hypocite and mercy to those still bearing the scent of thier sin.

Please let us examine all "truths" in the simple light of what we know to be true in our great God and Savior.

If a condemed and guilt man is to die at the hands of the state, then let him die. However, let the hand that brings death, not be the hand of Christ in His body.

Greater Love Hath No Man.....you know the rest.

The Pilgrim

Dear Crusader,

All passges in the OT refer to theocratic Israel and cannot quite be applied to gentile governments.
In Ro 13:4 says
4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

This passage acknowledges the right of the pagan and idolatrous Roman Empire to execute judgement including capital punishmentas God's servant or proxy.

I believe that this is true for today and is extended to all governments, regardless to what degree they are opposed to God's will.

narrowpath

I saw this thread, and I had a couple of thoughts about it.

1. God says that He has set up the governments.

That does not excuse a nation, or say that God ordains every law, but it is just a thought.

2. I have never been completely for or against the death penalty.

While it is the responsibility of the government to intervene, whether they are Christian or not, I have wondered what the government should do should it become a Christian government.

3. Lastly, I'm from Texas, where we execute the most people.

I believe that the punishment should fit the crime.

If you steal, you should pay for what you stole.

If you kill, how is it justice to let you live?

This may sound a bit strange, but if my state would institute public whippings, or floggings for crime, then perhaps I would lean less towards a death penalty, and more towards that type of penalty and imprisonment.
------------------------------------------------------

We must remember that God himself has judged people with death in the new testament for lying.

_________________
Benjamin Williams

Ben Williams wrote:

I believe that the punishment should fit the crime.

If you steal, you should pay for what you stole.

If you kill, how is it justice to let you live?


Ben, life does not exist because of what you believe. Life does not exist because of what you do. Life is the gift of God. This subject is not about what we believe or what we would do.
The crux of the matter is this. Should a Born Again Christian minister the death penalty? Could you by proxy execute a person for thier crime against God?

Think about it? What would Jesus say to the thief today? What would He say to the Murderer? What would He say to the Adulterer?
What would He say to you?

Where would our theology be if Saul of Tarsus had got his just deserts?

Where would we be if we recieved our true deserts in this life.

Please detach this subject from final judgement. This is about the ministration of Christ in this earth. The only testimony they will have of Him today is what they get from His body. How sick we are when men can claim to be for the penalty of death and still claim knowlege of Christ.

What happens in the Texas jailhouse is no different to what happened out in the field in Genesis 4.

I hope that God will teach me the meaning mercy.
And if He does, this I know, that others will benefit from what God has done in my undeserving heart.

God bless us all

The Pilgrim

Scripture repeatidly allows for civil authorities to carry out the death penalty as a part of civil justice. Jesus did not change, alter or make it obsolete in any way, shape or form.

Many people come to this discussion and say things like "I cant see Jesus condemning someone to the death penalty!" ...yet they [b]choose to ignore[/b] the story of the sheep and the goats that Christ told Himself, and how He himself will seperate the sheep from the goats... and He Himself will cast the goats into eternal death.

If that isnt a death penalty... I dont know what is.

The penalty is godly, scriptural... and not up for debate if you truly know how to divide the Word of Truth. But too many believers believe in a "pollyanny" Jesus, which is not based on reality or truth.

God has ordained governmental authority to carry out justice. Yes, it has been abused, and still is today. Yet that doesnt change the fact that it is the way God Himself set things up. Dont like it? Sue God.

Personally... I believe in the death penalty for child molesters/rapists. Thats a step further than most pro death penalty people go.

Krispy

Krispy said:
God has ordained governmental authority to carry out justice. Yes, it has been abused, and still is today. Yet that doesnt change the fact that it is the way God Himself set things up. Dont like it? Sue God.

Personally... I believe in the death penalty for child molesters/rapists. Thats a step further than most pro death penalty people go.


Well Krispy, it seem s you are more interested in veangance that mercy.

He does not ordain Government, he allows them to exist.
Christ said His Kingdom was not of this world!

You believe in death penaly for certain crimes. God say that all sin brings death.

Again, what you are doing, sheep and goats, is confusing the Last Judgement with the actual work and nature of Christ in this world today. His work is to minister mercy...for all men.

What did that Angel say: Peace and GOODWILL to ALL men.

Hey why stop at molesters and murderers? Why dont we fry bigots too.

Sue God...I don't think so!

What is it that defines Christians...Oh yes...They Will KNow You Are My Disciples For The Love You Have...One For Another.

Hey! Wasn't that a commandement or something he gave us.


Please read the early post reagrding that young girls murdered by your goverment...and has that death made us more..or less like Christ.

Krispy...time to brake those strongholds.

The Pilgrimm