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BenWilliams
Member



Joined: 2006/12/11
Posts: 351
El Paso, Texas

 Re:

To Paul West:

Quote:
No, and you couldn't pay me to go.



I'm just surprised that if you think it is all so sinful, why you don't go there and reach out to all the lost sinful people at those shows.

By the way, I love the old hymns far more than almost anything I ever have hear written.

Quote:
Ben. Your abhorrence of all that is pure and lovely and humble diffuses through modern youth groups like a noxious stench. I see first-hand the covetous cliques in youth fellowships, the strutting, the vast identity crisis of not knowing who they are in Christ. The totally dependancy on music and beats to get into God's supposed presence.



Do you suppose for one second that I do not see those things? I am imersed in that stuff all around me and I hate it. I have made my life a pursuit to be able to reach any culture by meeting them on their level. God has given me that ability. My friends range from the age of 2 to the age of seventy, and I am able to relate to their culture and walk with them.

[b]You just labeled me as someone who has an abhorence of all that is pure and lovely.

God forgive you for your ill tempered words and quick tongue. You do not know my heart, neither do you understand the deep things of God concerning my life.[/b]


[b]To everyone who keeps telling me that Paul West weeps over things before he says them, I fail to see where the weeping and prayer has caused him to attack me with these accusations.[/b]

Quote:
And I see this spirit typified in bands like Skillet.



If you judge them the same way you judge me, then it is obvious your judgment is not only slightly flawed, but off entirely.


_________________
Benjamin Williams

 2007/2/26 13:37Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Just because a band has verses in their songs does not mean they are walking in Him. There are a lot of religouse/hypocrites using God's word.



Doesn't mean they are not walking in Him either.

I have listened to almost everything Skillet has produced and I am a fan.

I also recommend their worship album [url=http://www.amazon.com/Ardent-Worship-Skillet-Live/dp/B0009RQSJQ]on this site.[/url]

 2007/2/26 13:41Profile









 Re:

Quote:
even Paul says " I have become all things to all men, that I might win a few." Why did he do that? I think it's obvious.



Paul also commanded us to avoid all appearances of evil. All thru scripture Paul's statement is validated, especially throughout Deuteronomy. So that was in effect looooong before Paul. Paul simply reinforced the pratical application.

If we merely take Paul's statement out of the context of the rest of scripture (which you have shown that you do... frequently) then we could say that a Christian woman should become a prostitute to reach prostitutes. Or maybe we should become a coke addict in order to reach coke addicts?

That verse you yanked out of scripture makes no sense all on it's own. It has to be balanced with scripture.

Krispy

 2007/2/26 13:42









 Re:

One more thing, Ben... your argumentative and defensive tone on this thread is indicative of the youth "culture" the media "seeker sensitive" churhes today are producing. It's the same "we're the 'cool' culture in the church, and people who think it's worldly out-of-touch old timers who are in the way".

How is that attitude any different than it is in the world?

I know you didn't [i]say[/i] that... but the devil is in the details. (your attitude)

And believe it or not, I say that in love.

Krispy

 2007/2/26 13:47
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

I believe it all comes down to preferences. Young people today are not opposed to the old fashioned hymns but they also want to jump up and down and shout praises to God without being ridiculed by the church.

I hear people say 'Give me the old Wesley hymns' to which I say 'Great!' Love those hymns, but don't discount today's music that glorifies God simply because you don't like the way it sounds or looks. Just it by the work God is doing among it.

ATF bands:
P.O.D.
Pulling from their SoCal roots, mixing hip-hop, reggae, and hardcore punk, P.O.D. (Payable on Death) has defined a different kind of hard rock. Now composed of Sonny Sandoval's vocals, Noah 'Wuv' Bernardo on Drums, Traa Daniels on Bass, and Jason Truby on Guitar, P.O.D. is recognized internationally through their unique brand of music as a voice of those who persevere and live by their Faith.


Toby Mac
Toby Mac wants to start a revolution, one that will sweep through cities and erase the divisive lines that keep people and cultures apart. Holding up his microphone like a fist in the air, this Grammy-winning artist sees his opportunity in the society-shaping power of music. As a true artist, it's not his impressive sales heights or awards that fire up his voice, but rather it's an unwavering quest to make songs that connect and inspire all who hear them.

casting crowns
Part worship band, part contemporary Christian rock, Casting Crowns have come a long way in a very short time. Since they first appeared on the scene in 2003, they have certainly carved out a name for themselves in the Christian music industry. However, talk to any member of the band and you will hear them say that awards, record sales, and radio play are the last things on their minds. What matters most to Casting Crowns is touched hearts and changed lives. The group never fails to be as personal and real as possible with their audience. Focusing on ministry above publicity, Casting Crowns has delivered powerful lyrics time after time, continually challenging the church status quo and inspiring listeners to dig deeper into their personal walks with Jesus.

Flyleaf
Flyleaf's infectiously heavy positivism is a fresh contrast to many rockers reopening old wounds by singing about their broken homes and broken hearts. Flyleaf's songs about abuse, neglect, addiction and dysfunction are messages about overcoming adversity to prove that hope in Christ shines brighter than the darkness of despair.
“I used to be in a really negative band, and that seemed to almost fuel my emptiness because that is what the songs were about.” says charismatic singer, Lacey Mosley. “That's why I think what we're doing is important because there needs to be something heavy out there that has a positive message so people see that its possible to get through the worst situations.”
With Jared Hartmann on guitar, Pat Seals on bass, Sameer Bhattacharya on guitar, and James Culpepper on drums, the band's wide array of brooding beats, atmospheric textures and lunging riffs compliment Mosley's aggressive yet beautiful and emotionally revealing lyrics.

PILLAR
Make no mistake about it: Pillar is not the rock 'n' roll of yesterday, but the forward moving revolution of today and tomorrow. Their zealous passion incinerates today's gimmicky knockoffs, leaving pretenders in the dust. The members of Pillar; vocalist Rob Beckley, bassist Kalel, guitarist Noah Henson, and drummer Lester Estelle, exude genuine boldness.
Rich in spirited energy and striking dynamics that accentuate sharp and relevant lyrics, Pillar finds power in the passion and conviction of their faith, and pours this energy into their performances. Pillar has full faith that their songs will deliver a powerful, positive impact while igniting a bright musical spark in a dark world.

SKILLET
Gritty guitar riffs, thunderous instrumental clashes, and deep resonating vocals make Skillet hard to ignore. The intense sound is a catalyst for lyrics that reveal passion and hope. John Cooper on lead vocals and bass, John's wife Korey Cooper on guitar and keyboard, Ben Kasica on guitar, and Lori Peters on drums give it their all on every song. While the band may have two females in their lineup, that doesn't mean they don't rock as hard as other all-male artists. Frontman John Coper says, “Lori is insane! We played some concerts where the soundman told us that he had to turn down the drums after the last bands played because the guys weren't hitting as hard as our drummer!” That feeling of signature energy results from loving music and loving God with a passion that cannot be muted.

thousand foot krutch
Shedding their hip-hop influences, and pushing forward into a new brand of pure high-energy rock, Thousand Foot Krutch has perfectly melded heavy guitar riffs with catchy hooks to create a new sound.
Currently consisting of Trevor McNevan on vocals, Joel Bruyere on bass, Steve Augustine on drums, and Jamie Aplin on guitar, the Toronto-based group is set on not selling out. “When hip-hop and rock are mixed and put together honestly, it can be a great sound,” explains Augustine. “But is seemed like too many bands were doing it just to sell records.” These are not guys who hide behind an image or a guitar solo. McNevan explains, “I just write songs from my point of view, and we just want to spread hope and positivity.”

Hillsong united
Hailing from "Down under", Hillsong United are more than a worship band. With their own unique and vibrant sound, this Aussie group continues to impress both spiritually and musically, with youth-oriented worship lyrics and even stronger melodies that make you want to join in with the mob of worshippers after just one or two songs. With their lead singer Joel Houston leading the way and other members of the Hillsong Church in Australia rounding out this symphony of worship, Hillsong United keeps their music edgy and focused on what's important.

hawk nelson
Hawk Nelson is a great pop rock band that just flat-out knows how to make you have a fun time. With catchy explosive beats and contagious lyrics, Hawk Nelson delivers a powerful and exciting show that is sure to leave fans chanting for more.
Besides having a great time, though, Hawk Nelson is about delivering a message that is real and meaningful. “I think it’s important that we learn how to help people, whether it’s a third-world country or right here in our backyards,” says Daniel Biro, bass player. “It’s what we’ve always been about. People have always helped us, and we’ve tried to pass that on in anyway we can. We seek to create anthems to get you thinking about what it is that you want to do with your life and then give you a jump-start to go all-out for it. No matter what the ambition, get out there and go do it. We are having the time of our lives!”

BARLOWGIRL
An all-girl band made up of sisters Rebecca, Alyssa and Lauren Barlow; they combine young rockin' energy with mature Godly morals. The girls are very upfront about living life with passion for God. "We believe that God is calling everyone to live a life that is fully surrendered to Him so that He can do His work in us and begin to show us His true purpose for our lives. We're definitely not saying 'we've mastered this concept and now it's your turn', but instead that this is a daily process and a journey that all of us will be on forever." “In a world that constantly bombards us with impurity and immodesty, we feel called to take a stand against what the world is telling us is acceptable.”

UNHINDERED
Starting out in high school, Unhindered had no idea what God had in store for them. Ben (keyboards/vocals) and Pat (guitar/vocals) began leading dynamic worship that drew young people and adults alike into a unique experience with God. They soon met Christian (drums), J.R. (bass) and Ashley (electric guitar) and Unhindered was complete.It has truly been an answer to prayer, the group says, "We just desire for God to use us in the biggest way He can for His glory." The band continues to pursue God's call for them in writing songs and leading worship, in hopes that He will continue to lead them in their pursuit of deeper, more intimate worship of Him.

kj-52
"A white dude from the suburbs and inner city of Florida doing Christian rap and driving a minivan?" KJ says. "None of that makes sense. No one says, 'That's the formula, right there!' But at the end of the day, it just proves that God did it."
The absurdity of his situation hasn't stopped him from becoming one of the hottest rappers on the Christian hip-hop scene, as evidenced by his appearance with the massive Festival Con Dios & Winter Jam Tours, his 2004 Dove Award for Rap/Hip-hop Album of the Year (for "It's Pronounced Five-Two") and his recent 2005 Dove Award nominations for Rap/Hip Hop Recorded Song of the Year (for "Back in the Day") and Rap/Hip Hop Album of the Year (for "Soul Purpose").
"I know, it doesn't make sense," KJ smiles. "But wait 'til you hear it. Believe me, it works."

grits
GRITS have been hip-hop's best-kept secret long enough.
These "Tennessee Boys" have exploded from their underground roots to reach the ears of millions, as their music and message has been featured on several prominent national and international television programs. But just because GRITS has gained the accolades and recognition that many artists only dream of, don't think that they have lost sight of the meaning and the message behind the music. "Our lives are reflected in our music, and that's the bottom line," explains Bonafide, whose everyman affinity helps empower the lyric's spiritual themes. "That's the essence of GRITS. We just do us and keep it as real as possible, and that's why our songs are so personal." "We never put on airs once we get on stage or do interviews," adds Coffee.

Red
Passionate vocals. Gnashing guitars. A potent message.
These are the elements that make Red — both live and on their mighty debut, End of Silence—one of the most buzzed about bands to crash through the Christian rock world in recent memory.
“We’re passionate about our live show, but sometimes we get a little too excited,” says bassist Randy Armstrong. He’s just stating the facts. Or more to the point, the injury report. Head contusions. Emergency rooms. Stitches. And that was just their last tour. “Anthony swung his guitar around his body and smashed it into Michael's head causing the guitar to break and Michael to get seven stitches.”

Leeland
"Leeland is the best thing I have heard in a long, long time," says Grammy Award-winning artist Michael W. Smith. "I can't stop singing the songs in my head. Great melodies. Great band. Great voice." He isn't the only one that's hooked; Leeland's debut album has earned its own Grammy nomination. Perhaps what is most inspiring is that the man at the front of all this recognition is 17-year-old Leeland Mooring. Songwriter, guitarist, and vocalist, Leeland is truly a voice of this young generation. He's transparent in his love and gratitude to God and unflinching in his passion for reaching his generation for Christ. "So many kids are lost when it comes to having a true relationship with God, even ones who go to church," Leeland says. "Whenever we play, our main goal is to be able to minister to our generation."
Musically, the sound contains layer upon layer of emotionally majestic melodies. With Jack Mooring on the keys, Jake Holtz on bass, Austin Tirado on guitar, and Mike Smith on drums, passion resonates from every song. They may be young, but their music moves people of all ages, an amazing example of the impact that teens with God-given vision can have.

Michael Gungor Band
Having plenty of experience leading worship at Acquire The Fire and Battle Cry events, the Michael Gungor Band surely feels just as much at home on stage singing praises as they do anywhere else. But singing is just the start; Michael's guitar work is truly awe-inspiring. Add to that the flawless synergy of Lisa Gungor on keys and vocals, Michael Rossback on guitar, John Arndt on keys, David Gungor on bass, and Josh Eatmon on drums, and the result is nothing short of amazing.

falling up
Combining the intensity of modern rock and all the emotion involved in traditional praise and worship, Falling Up is here to prove their radical style is not a fleeting attempt at sticking to a trend, but a true declaration of the passion they hold for their ministry. Lead vocalist Jessy Ribordy, bassist Jeremy Miller, drummer Josh Shroy, and guitarist Joe Kisselburgh have been growing together as a band since their high school days.
"Our mission is to tell everyone who listens to our music and goes to our shows about the love we have in Christ Jesus, to show people that Christians can be real and honest," explains Ribordy. "It is to glorify God in every aspect of our lives and this band, and to show people through our lyrics, music, love, and lifestyles that there is more to life than what the world has offered us."

tye tribbett
This Camden, New Jersey native is oozing with enough raw talent to turn heads in any musical crowd. His high spirited Gospel music is frighteningly captivating with originality, depth and dynamism to spare. While gaining a fast-growing reputation as one of the hottest songwriters, musicians and directors in the business, Tye continues to show that he is truly anointed. The Spirit of God is evident in and through his music.

The afters
What started out as Josh Havens (guitar, vocals) and Matt Fuqua (guitar, vocals) entertaining coffee shop customers by playing acoustic songs has become a rising sensation with a loyal fanbase. When the duo decided to shift from acoustic to electric, they found that fellow coffee shop employees Marc Dodd (drums) and Brad Wigg (bass, vocals) had both the skills and the heart that the forming group need, and the band was complete.
"We were able to draw people in at our live performances initially through our onstage charisma. Especially Josh. He has that sort of dreamy, wistful look of innocent vulnerability while maintaining a degree of confident charm. But when you break the show down to its elements there's a great deal of variety to be found. Josh sings, I sing, Matt sings, we have pop songs, we have really dramatic rock-your-face-off songs, we have sweeping, melodic ballads. There really is something for everyone."

AYIESHA WOODS
Ayiesha Woods brings an energetic and refreshing sound to music with the polished presentation of a veteran musician. For years, she had felt a deep calling to serve God with her musical talent and to touch people with her voice. Able to not just mix styles together, Ayiesha can dish out a musical buffet of pop rock, jazzy soul, reggae, dancehall, gospel R&B, or funk. Using her talent as singer, songwriter, and pianist, Ayiesha is fully committed to using her sound to reach out to others.

canton jones
Equal parts singer, songwriter, producer, and vocal arranger – this Deerfield Beach, Florida native has entertained over 300,000 people this year alone, sold nearly 50,000 units "from the trunk," and has several songs in regular radio rotation. Canton’s unlimited repertoire, massive crowd appeal, and fast-growing fan base have set him on a course destined to challenge the very fiber of today’s music and entertainment industry. With two Grammy nods under his belt, a Stellar Award nomination, and two Gospel Choice Awards to his credit, the only thing that might take you by surprise is his unwavering humility to God and the quiet confidence of someone who knows the tide is turning his way.

sarah kelly
Grammy nominated Sarah Kelly's music is the stuff that defines artistry. The Pop/ Rock sound turns heads, lights up audiences and makes record label executives swoon. And while it's hard to pinpoint exactly what it is about this dynamic new talent that captivates people-her gutsy, honest vocal delivery or her deeply expressive music-there's no question she's poised to make her artistic mark in a very big way.
As she enters an industry plagued by a dwindling crop of female artists who write and play their own songs, Sarah's sound is bold, ambitious and refreshing. She is not all fun and games though. Her struggles with self-esteem led to a suicide attempt as a teen and she still wrestles with self-image, but now confidently sings of God's grace. When she unleashes the power and conviction behind her extraordinary vocals, you'd never know she's got any hesitation at all.

ROJO
Spanish for “Red”, Rojo is both the name and the theme for this Latin-infused pop-rock quartet, symbolizing all that the color brings to mind: Stop, Warning, Love, Fire, and most importantly, the atoning blood of Jesus Christ. Made up of Oswaldo Burruel on guitar, Emmanuel Espinosa on bass and vocals, Linda Espinosa on lead vocals, and Ruben Gonzalez on keyboards and electronics, the band pushes forward after its sweeping success in Latin America and its 2004 Latin Grammy. From catchy, bouncy tunes to rough 'n' ready rock, to contemplative worship and passionate stadium anthems, these fine musicians never cease to please.

ROCA FIRME
Born in 1998 out of the streets of South Los Angeles, this Spanish-performing band has smashed through the language barrier to reach non-Spanish speaking audiences as well as Spanish-speaking ones. The band’s appeal comes from their unique hardcore sound (a blending of thoughtful melodies and raw energy) and their dynamic stage presence. But behind the edgy musical exterior are five hearts beating for God, using the music that they love to impact people in both the Christian and secular realms. And impact they do: when OB (lead vocals), Moi (drums), Moe (bass), Bobby (guitar) and Sari (guitar) take the stage, be prepared to be drawn in to the Roca Firme experience – no matter what language you speak.

Kari Jobe
For over 13 years, Kari Jobe has been involved with worship groups that have ministered around the world. She desires to see the world changed by the reality and nearness of God's presence. Kari believes it's not enough for us to merely experience God's presence; we must also affect the lives of others and help them draw closer to God. Her passion is to see people impacted and changed by His goodness.

jesse daniels
This eighteen year old entertainment veteran is an emerging new artist who describes her own music as "rock ambience with a pop edge".
Her New York roots and family upbringing brought her up in God, but it wasn't until she attended church with a fellow Christian friend that she realized that she was missing a personal relationship with God. Soon after, she came to see that she had gained a desire to use her music for Him, encouraging Christians and non-Christians alike.

Group 1 Crew
When the conversation turns to musical influences, not many groups are likely to mention Michael Buble, Beethoven, Stevie Wonder and flamenco music in the same breath. But it’s diversity that inspires them, not to mention their unique faith backgrounds that makes new Fervent artist Group 1 Crew stand out in a crowd. If their hybrid of hip-hop, rock, funk, soul and even Spanish-language rhymes wasn’t enough to distinguish Group 1 Crew, their impassioned message of hope and encouragement can’t help but set them apart in a genre of music that typically glamorizes violence, materialism the degradation of women.
“Our music isn't for one specific demographic; it's for anyone with a pulse. There’s love in our music, and it has meaning for anyone out there. I think once people see that, they’ll get what we do.”

The AUTUMN ASHLEY BAND
The melodic rock/worship fusion that powers the sound of The Autumn Ashley Band captures the passion of a young generation. With Jordan Srock on lead guitar, Chris Trowbridge on drums, Daniel Nelson on Bass, Bethany Banks on Keys, and fronted by ATF veteran worship leader Autumn Ashley, the band’s powerful original songs compliment their fresh renditions of contemporary favorites. The resulting sound is an intimate expression of genuine praise.

Building 429
Though accolades look nice on a shelf, it’s how an artist manages its success that really matters. The members of Building 429 all agree that with success comes added responsibility – to whom much is given, much is required. Jason Roy (vocals/guitar), Scotty Beshears (bass), Michael Anderson (drums) and Jesse Garcia (guitar/keyboards), are eager to use their newfound influence to serve God fearlessly.

 2007/2/26 13:55Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

I agree with Ben on this issue. Paul, I am not doubting anything you have seen in youth groups but you cannot place your arbitrary labels on all of the younger generation.

Quote:
I've been in Christian bookstores when their music is being played and I have to leave. Shouldn't that be enough? Their music is ugly and worldly and offensive to my ears. It does not provoke me to a deeper surrender and humilty in God; it, in fact, reminds me of my flesh-driven unregenerate life!


(Emphasis mine)

Yet to another person the music can be used by God to convict of sin and bring confession. To another person it can bring praise and adoration.

Paul, please remember that your preferences are not to be applied to all men when it comes to musical style.

 2007/2/26 14:04Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

You are not truthful, Ben. You deliberately spliced my quote in the right place to make it seem like I personally used [i]your name[/i] in that first sentence. Why did you do that? That one action has nullified your entire post and terminated our discussion.

I call every one in this forum to this matter, since it was done openly and not in private. I love Ben, and will pray for his growth.

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/2/26 14:04Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
Paul, please remember that your preferences are not to be applied to all men when it comes to musical style.



Point taken. Thank you. This goes beyond preference though, and I am not inclined to debate relativism (which is where you seem to be going). The music is of the world. Period. It exalts flesh and imagery and throws "God" and "Jesus" into the mixture for good measure; it offends not only "my" ears, but the ears of other, wiser, godlier saints than you and I. I don't know of any surrendered, scripture-saturated Christian who is edified from bands like Skillet.

If you are edified, though, I am happy for you. But know that you are an exception, and that holy preachers and mighty men of God decry what you approve.

Brother Paul


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Paul Frederick West

 2007/2/26 14:06Profile
JaySaved
Member



Joined: 2005/7/11
Posts: 1132
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
One more thing, Ben... your argumentative and defensive tone on this thread is indicative of the youth "culture" the media "seeker sensitive" churhes today are producing. It's the same "we're the 'cool' culture in the church, and people who think it's worldly out-of-touch old timers who are in the way".



Krispy, Ben is not displaying a 'too cool' impression on this forum. If anything he has been honest and mild in his rebuke of the generalizations brought against the young culture in the church.

Let us all please respect each other's differences of opinion on musical style.

 2007/2/26 14:06Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4994
Sweden

 Re:

god cleansed me and set me free from the world and its music, why would i wanna go back? Christian rock??

don't remember who said it but- Christian rock? those two words don't go togheter... thats like Christian beer... (maybe Paul washer?)

i don't believe there will only be Wesley's hymn's in heaven, but i have a hard time imagining a Christian rock song being played and all the angels go wild...


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CHRISTIAN

 2007/2/26 14:07Profile





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