In this sermon, the speaker focuses on Paul's instructions to Timothy regarding the conduct of men and women in the church. He emphasizes the need for men to pray and lift up holy hands without anger or disputes. For women, Paul instructs them to dress modestly and adorn themselves with good works rather than expensive clothing or jewelry. The speaker also discusses the controversial topic of women in ministry, highlighting the biblical principle of men being the leaders in both the family and the church. Finally, the speaker acknowledges the difficulty in interpreting a particular verse that mentions women being saved through childbearing, noting the various interpretations that exist.

So, 1st Timothy chapter 2, and tonight we're going to be looking at verses 9 through 15. One of the most often asked questions that I get is, what does the Bible say about the role of women in the church? Frequently asked question. You know, we do the live call-in radio program every week, Monday through Friday, and inevitably, I think, at least every other day, that question comes in. And we've answered it numerous times in, you know, 30 seconds or 2 minutes or whatever that it takes to do it over the air. But tonight we're going to address that issue specifically and answer it in a bit more detail. But that is the right question to ask, because the Bible is the only place that we can get an authoritative answer on the subject. We need to ask the question really to the scriptures, not, you know, what does the church teach about it? What does the church think about it? That's not the issue. The issue is, what does the Bible say? Well, to begin, the Bible has many references to women in ministry. Many, many references. The idea that women have no role or no part to play in the church, that is not founded in biblical teaching. That's just the invention of people who are hostile to the church. The Bible has many references to women in ministry. Let me give you a handful of those references. Luke chapter 8, verses 2 and 3. Listen to this. It says certain women who had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities. Mary called Magdalene and Joanna, the wife of Chusa, Herod, Stuart and Susanna, and many others provided for him, speaking of Jesus, from their substance. So there were many women that helped in a very practical way in the public ministry of Jesus. In Acts chapter 18, verse 26, we read about a married couple who ministered together. Their names were Aquila and Priscilla. And there we read when Aquila and Priscilla heard Apollos, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. Notice that they took him aside and they explained to him the way of God more accurately. It indicates that Priscilla made a contribution in helping Apollos come to a deeper understanding of the faith. In Romans chapter 16, verses 1 through 2, Paul writes and he says, I commend to you Phoebe, our sister, who is a servant of the church in Centuria, for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also. So Paul speaks of this woman who was a servant of the church in Centuria. Then in Philippians chapter 4, verses 2 and 3, Paul refers to two women, Euodia and Syntyche. And he says that these women labored with me in the gospel. They labored together with the apostle Paul in the gospel. And then Paul tells the older women to teach the younger women. And that's found in Titus chapter 2, verses 3 and 4. So these are just a few examples from the New Testament. We could draw more from the New Testament. And of course, we could draw many examples from the Old Testament. But right up front, I want you to see that the New Testament writers, including Paul, acknowledge that women have a role to play in the ministry of the church. Now let's look at verse 9. Paul is instructing Timothy, you remember, just to give you once again a little bit of background. He's he's instructing Timothy on how things are to run in the church. And he had been talking to Timothy about his need to exhort the men to pray. Men should pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands without wrath and without disputes. And then in verse 9, he said in like manner also that the women adorn themselves in modest apparel with propriety and moderation, not with braided hair or gold or pearls or costly clothing, but which is proper for women professing godliness with good works. Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. Now here, Paul, he gives us some general instruction for women in the church. He says that women are to dress modestly. Now, when we think of modest dressing, we normally think of dressing in a way that is not seductive in any way. And of course, that would obviously be included. But that's not really what Paul's talking about here. When he says that a woman is to dress modestly, he's he's referring to the fact that she's she's not to be ostentatious in her dress. She's not to come into the fellowship as though she was going to a fashion show. She's not to get dressed to kill to come to church. That's what Paul is saying here. Now, ostentatious dress in the ancient world sometimes could signal a woman's loose morals and independence from her husband. So what Paul is really wanting with the women is that they're they're not conforming to the world. But there there would be a simplicity about them. Now, Paul, excuse me, Peter, when he wrote his first epistle in the third chapter, Peter said something very similar. If you want to just turn over there real quickly with me, First Peter, Chapter three. Peter says concerning the women, he says in verse three of chapter three, he says, Do not let your adornment be merely outward arranging the hair, wearing gold or putting on fine apparel. Rather, let it be the hidden person of the heart with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and a quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. Now, this doesn't mean at all that. A woman cannot dress nicely at church. It just means, again, simply that she wasn't to dress in such a way that she would become the center of attraction, because you could imagine how that would easily happen. The fellowships in those days were fairly small fellowships, for the most part, I would imagine maybe a few hundred people gathered together. And if a woman walked in dressed ostentatiously, she would immediately draw attention to herself. And so Paul is letting them know what is proper for women as they come into the church. Then he says that they are to be silent and submissive. Now, we have to remember this as we study all of the epistles, but this one in particular. Paul didn't write these things in a vacuum. He didn't just simply sit down and say, you know, I'm going to write a letter to Timothy and let me think, what should I talk about? I'll talk about women in the church. Well, let me think, what would I say about women in the church? OK, I'll talk about how they address and how they ought to behave. That's not how Paul wrote these epistles. He wrote them in response to things that were happening in the churches. They were written for the express purpose, generally speaking, of educating the believers and correcting them in many cases. So it would seem that some of the things that Paul says in regard to women that seem sort of outlandish, maybe to us today, it would seem that Paul was saying these things based on certain activity that was going on in those churches. So when Paul says that a woman is to be silent and submissive, it's possible, highly possible that women were expressing their liberation from their husbands or from other men in the church by criticizing and speaking out against male leaders. Now, remember, most of the time when Paul wrote to churches in a corrective manner, it was because false teachers had come in and they were influencing the believers in the wrong direction. And it could very well be that one of the things that they were doing was sort of influencing the women to throw off this whole idea of male leadership. They might have even said things like we hear today that all submission to male leadership or submission to their husband. They might have said that was all a result of the curse, the curse that came upon man because of sin. But Christ redeemed us from the curse, ladies. So you're no longer under that kind of bondage and you can just disregard all of that sort of stuff. It seems like those kind of things might have been going around amongst the women. So Paul says that the women are to be silent and submissive. Now, this does not mean. That a woman could not speak at all in church because First Corinthians 11 and five says that women prayed and prophesied in church. It's actually referring to a woman being disruptive in the service. Now, the church services in those days were different than what we have here tonight, for example, in that the church services were oftentimes modeled after the synagogue. Of course, Christianity grew out of Judaism, and the synagogue was the place where the local Jewish congregations met. And in the synagogue, they would have the women and the men separated from one another. And apparently that was emulated by some of the early fellowships. And so what you would have sometimes is women speaking out in First Corinthians chapter 14. Paul sort of paints a picture of women speaking out disruptively, calling out in the service to their husbands across the room and asking them like, hey, what's he talking about up there? What do you mean by that? And so Paul said, let the women keep silent in the church. Let them ask their own husbands at home if they have a question, not because Paul was saying women can't speak in church, but because to speak in that manner, of course, would be disruptive to the service. And so we have to understand what he does mean by these things and what he does not mean. And as I said, based on First Corinthians eleven five, he clearly does not prohibit women from speaking at all in the church because he refers to the fact that they were praying and prophesying. Now, when we come to verse 12, this is the loaded verse. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. This verse has sparked much debate and controversy over the past several years. On the surface, it seems to be so Neanderthal ish. You know what I mean? It just it just seems to be so outdated and old fashioned, so contrary to the egalitarian spirit of the day, the idea that there's an equality among all. It seems so. Right wing, to put it in another way, that women are not to teach or to usurp exercise or have authority over a man. So. What is this all about? That's the question now. Some. Have denied. Paul's authorship here. Some have just flat out said Paul did not write the pastoral epistles. And therefore, Paul cannot be attributed with this statement. Uh, they say no. What Paul said about the subject of women in the church is that in Christ there is neither June or Greek bond or free male nor female. That's what Paul said. And therefore, there's an absolute and total equality across the board. There's no distinctions. There's no difference whatsoever. So Paul couldn't have possibly written this. Others acknowledge the authorship of Paul, but they say that Paul compromised at this point. His true conviction was Galatians 328, that in Christ there is neither male nor female, but under pressure, they say he compromised here and he. You know, he kind of reverted back to the pressures of Judaism or maybe pressure from the Greek culture around him. Some say this statement only had a limited application. Some say you can't take this verse and apply it to today. It had application only to the local situation in Ephesus, or it might have gone a little bit beyond Ephesus and had application to the cultural setting in which the apostle found himself. Others say that this verse is fundamentalist bigotry at its worst. This just shows how out to lunch Christians are and, uh, the Bible is in regard to its attitudes toward women and toward equality and things like that. So those are the things that have been said by people, particularly those who have written on the subject about Paul's statement. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man. So what do we say? Do we agree with any of them? I personally don't think we ought to. I believe that although it might seem a bit Neanderthal ish, we're not into being politically correct. And if we ever become politically correct, we might as well just give it up. I believe that the verse has application to today, but I believe that it's saying something very specific. And I think when we understand what it is saying specifically, I think it will help us to embrace it without any difficulty. So what does he say? First of all, Paul says a woman is not to teach. Now, of course, it's not. She's not to teach in a general sense because we've already seen that he admonished the older women to teach the younger women in his epistle to Titus. So a woman is not to teach a man specifically. That's what's being spoken of here. But it's not that a woman is not to teach a man anything. A woman is not to teach a man something specific. The word here for teach is the Greek word didasko. And there are many related words to it. And it many times in Paul's epistles refers to teaching Christian doctrine in the pastoral epistles, which we are studying here. It always refers to Christian doctrine. It's never used in any other way in the pastorals. It's always used in reference to Christian doctrine. So what Paul is saying here is that a woman is to not teach men Christian doctrine. A woman is not to be the Bible teacher in the church. That's what Paul is saying. Now, secondly, he says that a woman is not to have authority over a man. Now, what does he mean by that? Well, Paul seems to be describing the activity of elders. In First Thessalonians, chapter five, verse 12, Paul said, Recognize those who have authority over you in the Lord and be submissive to them. In First Timothy 517, Paul made reference to the elders who rule well or the welders, the welders, the elders who the welders who weld well, the elders who have authority over you. He referred to them. And then in Hebrews 1317, he said, Obey those who rule over you and be submissive. So Paul, over and over again, he makes reference to certain people who had authority over the believers. And in the context, you find that he's always talking about the elders. So what Paul seems to be saying to me is that a woman is not to hold the office of the teacher or the elder in the church. In other words, a woman is not to be what we commonly call the pastor of the church. Now, this is in complete harmony with the requirements that are laid down for elders, for pastors, for the overseers. And as you carry on here into the next chapter of this epistle, which we will do next week. You find Paul giving instruction regarding the elders, regarding the the overseers here in this context, chapter three, verse one. This is a faithful saying if a man desires a position of a bishop, he desires a good work. A bishop. The word bishop comes from the Greek word Episcopal. And that word means to oversee. So. He's talking about the overseer of the church, the overseer and the elder. Those are synonyms. The elders were the overseers of the church. So elder, bishop, pastor, those terms are basically referring to the same position. And when Paul gives instruction to Timothy here and then to Titus, which is another one of the pastoral epistles, when he gives instruction regarding the elders, the bishops, the pastors, the overseers, however you want to describe it. He always refers to that position being reserved for a man. If a man desires the office of the overseer, he desires a good work. So there's nowhere in scripture where we have any indication whatsoever that a woman ever held that office. Now, there are some who say, oh, no, no, no, no, that's not true. There are some who say women held the office of deacon, women held the office of elder. Some say that women were actually apostles. But when you look more closely at the verses that they try to support that with, you find that, you know, that you really got to stretch it. For example, Phoebe is referred to as we read earlier in Romans chapter 16. She's referred to as a servant of the church and centuria. Well, that word servant is the word that's translated deacon. And so some people say, well, look, Phoebe, she held the office of deacon in the church or a deaconess. But that word is translated a lot of different ways. It's translated servant. It's translated minister. It's applied to Jesus Christ himself. So Jesus Christ was a deacon to the circumcision. See, you have to be careful how you apply and interpret a word, and just because it refers to a group of deacons in a certain place, it doesn't always mean the same thing, because the word also is used by Paul in Romans 13 to describe the role of the government. For governmental powers are God's minister. The word is God's deacons. So we see that we can't really build a strong case from that word that Phoebe was actually a deaconess in an official sense. She was a servant in the church. That's the primary meaning of the word. Now, again, they try to build a case some do for female apostleship. And in Romans chapter 16, Paul mentions two people, Andronicus and Junia, who were of note among the apostles. They are Paul's countrymen, and they were in Christ before him, it says. And they say, well, the name Junia is feminine, and therefore, look what it says. It says that Junia was noteworthy among the apostles. In other words, she was an apostle. But first of all, there's no guarantee that that is the name of a woman. Paul could have clearly specified that had he chosen to do so, but it's not clearly specified. It's just speculative that that's a woman's name. And it doesn't say that she was necessarily among the apostles. It just says that she was recognized by them, if indeed it was a she. Of course, Jesus is the one who chose apostles. He didn't choose women. We don't have any record whatsoever of any apostolic person being a woman. And and regarding elders as well, we don't have any biblical case of a woman being in that position. Now, there's a lot of pressure that comes upon the church today to conform to, you know, cultural standards that change all the time. But our task is to stick with what the scriptures say. And I think the position of the scripture is a completely reasonable position. A woman has many, many, many opportunities for ministry. But the one position that is close to a woman is the office of the teaching elder of the church. Now. Why is that the case? What are Paul's reasons? He tells us here, he says, first of all. For Adam was formed first, then Eve. And secondly, and Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived fell into transgression. So what are Paul's reasons? Notice, first of all, they're not local or cultural. See, that's the way people try to get around this. They say, oh, no, this doesn't apply to today. This was just a local situation or it was just because of the culture. Paul didn't want to rock the boat. He didn't want to go against the culture. So he he compromised here. But this was never intended to be a permanent a statute within the church. But Paul doesn't reason from culture. He reasons from scripture. And he says that a woman is not to teach or to have authority over a man because Adam was formed first and then Eve. You see, Paul goes back to creation itself. You see, the idea that a woman would be in submission to a man, not because she's inferior, of course, as Paul said in Galatians 328. In Christ, there is neither June or Greek, bond or free, male or female. But that is speaking of our position in Christ. It doesn't address the issue of different roles that we play. And God has set things in a certain order. There's an order laid out in creation. And so in creation, we know the story. Adam was created first and the woman was created to be the man's helper. She was created as a helper suitable to the man. So the woman was actually created to come alongside in a supportive role with the man. And that's what Paul goes back to here. He reminds them that this idea of wives submitting to husbands and male leadership and all of that, he reminds him again, this isn't a result of the curse. This isn't because of sin. This was established before sin ever entered into the world. This is the order that God has established in creation. Now, what we have going on today in our world and especially in our Western world is a total and absolute revolt against God's order. That's what you see happening across the board today. It's it's an upheaval. It's a it's a cultural and a societal upheaval. It's an absolute revolt and rebellion against God's order. That's what's happening. That's the explanation for feminism. That's the explanation for the emphasis on homosexuality and the desire to see gay marriage come into the culture as a totally accepted alternative. That's what's going on in so many different areas. It's it's a revolt against God's order. And you can revolt against God's order all you want, but you're never going to change the facts. This is the way it is. You can get all the legislation passed in the world, but that's not going to do anything as far as changing God's mind toward it. You know, it's amazing. I was reading an article the other night where an individual was going from church to church, sort of an itinerant preacher going from church to church, holding prayer meetings for the election. And he contacted the IRS, I think, to clear it with them or something, and they they wrote back that it was a violation of church and state for him to pray because he wanted to pray specifically that the president would win the election. They told him that was illegal to pray that the president would win the election. You know, I mean, the point is, look what people are trying to do right now. They take the Ten Commandments, they move it out of public and they put it in a, you know, a basement and cover it up because, boy, that's going to do it right there. We just put this blanket over it and it's like they never existed. We tell people you can't pray to God. God can't do anything because we don't allow people to pray to him. God's going to do whatever he wants to do. And none of these things mean anything. And all of this attempt to alter everything and change it all and, you know, turn it every which way, you know, all it will do is bring misery upon. Society, but it won't do anything to change God's order, God's order is established, and that's what Paul refers to here. Adam was created first and then Eve. And so the woman was never meant to be in a position to have authority over the man. Now, let me address this real quickly. Does this apply across the board in every area of life? Does this mean that in the area of business or in the area of politics or wherever else you might want to apply it? Does this mean that in no situation under any circumstances should a woman be in a place where she usurps authority over a man or has authority over a man? Absolutely not. This has application strictly to the church. It's not a mandate across the board that women can ever hold positions of authority. And some have misinterpreted the Bible and twisted it to sort of get their own way through it and at times have used it as a means of oppression for others. But you can't apply it in that area. Paul is talking strictly about the church. That's what he's writing Timothy about. He's not writing to him about the government. He's not writing to him about business. He's not writing to him about any other area of life. He's writing to him about the church. So these things have application in the church. So Paul's first reason is because of the order of creation. His second reason is that Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived fell into transgression. Now, this is a hard one, perhaps to swallow. But nevertheless, I don't think there's any way to get around it. What Paul is saying here is that a woman is more vulnerable to deception. Now, there might be some ladies that would protest that and. But again, we're talking about spiritually, and I think that if you just look at things honestly, you know, women are generally speaking, more spiritually sensitive than men are. Do you know that most Christian literature is purchased by women, not by men? Did you know that most churches have a larger female attendance than they do a male attendance? And I would venture to say there are probably more Christian women in the world than there are Christian men in the world. And I think that just, you know, in a sense, is indicative of the fact that women tend to be spiritually more sensitive than men. But that spiritual sensitivity also evidently gives them. An element of vulnerability. And so Paul points that out that it wasn't Adam who was deceived. Now, Adam becomes the one who is responsible for sin. Ultimately, in Romans chapter five and in other places, it's the sin of Adam that's always referred to. This is the only place where Paul addresses Eve and her culpability in the matter. But he shows us that Eve was deceived. Adam was not deceived, in other words. Adam knew full well what he was doing, and he made a decision to do what he did with a full knowledge that he was going to disobey God. He was under this delusion of the devil, and she wasn't really aware. Of the fact that she was being duped, but nevertheless, that was the case. And so because of that, Paul says a woman is forbidden from holding that position within the church. Now, I've said all of that about the vulnerability of the woman and so forth, and that might indeed be true. But, you know, it might also simply be the case that sort of as a consequence of what Eve did, it just eliminates women from that position. It might be that because, of course, Adam did things or Adam's sin has various consequences that come down to us. Even though I didn't participate in what he did, I inherited the consequences of what he did. So it might refer to that as well. So these are the reasons that Paul says, because of the order of creation, because God has established an order and that is that men are to lead men are to lead in the family and men are to lead in the church. That's God's established order. And because of the situation with being deceived now. In verse 15, he says something that is notoriously difficult to understand. Listen to what he says. Nevertheless, she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love and holiness with self-control. There are so many different interpretations of this. I didn't have time to write them all down, but this is a notoriously difficult passage to try to interpret. It's just it's very, very challenging. So how do we understand this? Because he connects it all together. Notice, he says, I do not permit a woman to teach her to have authority over the man over a man, but to be in silence for Adam was formed first, then Eve. Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived fell into transgression. Nevertheless, she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love and holiness with self-control. What in the world does that mean? Does that mean that women get saved by having babies? Is that the means for women to be saved? It sounds like it might mean that. But of course, it can't mean that. Some have said, because the definite article precedes childbirth, it actually says literally, it says, nevertheless, she will be saved in the childbirth or bearing. Some say that's a reference to the childbirth, the birth of the child, the birth of the Messiah, Jesus. That's how the woman is going to be saved. And so even though Eve sinned, it was through women that salvation came. And that's what Paul is talking about there. But that seems awfully obscure to me. I think the best way to understand what Paul is saying is, first of all, to understand that the word saved here does not refer to saved in the sense of this is how you get saved. Because remember, Paul's writing to people already. So he's not laying out another way for women to be saved through childbearing and continuing in faith, love and holiness and self-control. That would be a salvation based on works. But I think what he's talking about. Is that a woman is going to experience salvation in its fullest sense through fulfilling the role that God has ordained for her. Now, the word in childbearing here can also be translated child rearing, and it probably should be translated child rearing or raising children. The idea is simply this, that a woman will find her greatest satisfaction and meaning in life, not in seeking the male role, but in fulfilling God's design for her as a wife and a mother. That, I think, is what Paul is saying, because remember the background that we talked about earlier, it appears that the women were trying to move into the role of the men. They were not content to be in the position that God placed them in. They wanted to come in and take over. They wanted to lead the ministry and so forth. Paul says you're not going to experience. What God wants you to experience the fullness of your salvation, you're not going to experience it by by doing that, you're going to experience the fullness of God's salvation for you by abiding in the designated role that God has had for you. Boy, think of how many women today have been duped by this over-the-top feminist agenda. And, you know, once in a while you'll find that somebody in that camp becomes disenchanted with the whole thing and then it's a time of true confession and they'll, you know, some magazine article or something somewhere will appear where somebody, you know, in now or some other organization will just come out and say, you know what, this is all just a big hoax. It doesn't bring fulfillment, it doesn't it doesn't do any of the things that we thought it was going to do, man, I'm going to go find a guy and get married and hopefully have some kids. Because that's the order of creation, not to say that everybody has to be married or everybody has to have children, but, you know, generally speaking, that's been the way it's been done here on planet Earth. So that's what Paul is saying here. That you're going to find fulfillment not in trying to make your own. Way. Not in breaking all tradition and. You know, pioneering a new path, you're not going to find fulfillment in that, oh, you might think you are, but in the end, you're not going to be fulfilled in the end, you're going to be disappointed to some extent, because God has set things up for a reason and he knows how things are supposed to work. And the smartest thing any of us could do is to do things God's way. Because that's when they work best and when we try to go against that, it just doesn't work. Now, what is then the role of women in the church? Well, if we look at the negative side of it again. There's only one thing that a woman is really prohibited from. So basically, apart from that one thing, the sky's the limit, so to speak. Women can do all kinds of things and need to do all kinds of things, and their contribution to the church. Has always been. A very wonderful contribution, and quite frankly, the church, just like man himself, would have never been what it should be without the contribution of women. Those are the facts. So what is the role of women in the church? Well, let me just give you a few suggestions, ladies. You can certainly pray. And again, quite often, women are sort of sometimes the backbone of the church when it comes to prayer. The ladies don't seem to have any problem getting together for prayer. It's the guys who oftentimes can't make it too busy, too tired, whatever the case, that the gals get together to pray a wonderful ministry for women, discipling one another, as Paul said to Titus, the older women teaching the younger women. And of course, we have a wonderful women's ministry here and my lovely wife is involved in that. And there's great things that are happening as the word of God is being ministered to the ladies and they're being built up in the faith, and that's wonderful and perfectly legitimate. There's children's ministry. And what a great opportunity to serve the Lord, children's ministry. And you know, ladies seem to do really well with children's ministry. When we were living in London, Cheryl was the. She was the one who ran the children's ministry, and actually my my oldest daughter and her serve the Lord together in that ministry, and it was such a great thing. And so often that's been the case, God has used women very mightily and powerfully with children. As a matter of fact, it was a woman who developed what we know today is Sunday school. Sunday school wasn't always around. As a matter of fact, when she first introduced Sunday school, a lot of people thought it was heretical. You know, what is this? This lady's crazy trying to get these kids over and teach them on their own. They need to just sit right here in the church with us and sure they can fall asleep or crawl under the pew or whatever. You know, that's where they need to be, because that's the way we've always done it. And no regard for the kids. No, no thought for them to be, you know, getting blessed or ministered to. And then this lady comes along. What's her name? Do you remember? I forgot. I'll find out. And and she comes up with this idea. But truly, initially, they just thought, oh, no, we can't do this. But then, of course, somebody was open and said, well, let's try it. And how many young people's lives have been impacted through Sunday school ministry? And then, of course, women can serve administratively. There's a ton of administrative things to do. And when you read that passage that we read initially in Luke there, it seems that that is probably part of what they were doing with Jesus in the ministry with him. They were ministering to him out of their substance. So they were there was some administrative role. They were probably cooking for them and things like that, having to, you know, purchase food and make the meals and things. And then. Women can, of course, serve the Lord in the area of evangelism, sharing the gospel with people, whoever. Men, women, boys and girls, there have been a lot of great women evangelist in the sense that, you know, God has used women in many ways to minister to other people. I think of some of the the girls today in the Christian music realm and just how God uses their music and how impactful their music can be and how through that platform of music God uses them to bring the gospel to people and they're serving the Lord as evangelist. And then, of course, there's the mission field and many, many great stories of women on the mission field. And on the mission field, women did primarily evangelize and teach children and minister to other women. But sometimes they would end up discipling men as well. They weren't starting churches, per se, and then becoming the pastor of the church that they were they were ministering the gospel. They were discipling people, women like Lillias Trotter, Patricia St. John, Mary Schleser, Gladys Alward, Amy Carmichael. These are all names that you might be somewhat familiar with, but they were women who had a tremendous impact on the lives of many, many people, a tremendous impact on cultures and nations in some cases. And so, ladies. There's plenty to do. And there's no reason to be upset about the fact that, well, I want to do that one thing and they said I couldn't. So I'm going to go off and find a church that'll let me be the pastor. Don't. Don't bother. Don't waste your time. It won't fulfill you. It's not what God has designed. He's got the perfect plan and the perfect place. And as we seek to be in that which he created us for, that's where we function best and that's where we glorify him most effectively. But one final thing. What about those ladies who do pastor churches and who seem to do a fairly good job at it? Who really do honor the Lord and teach the word and evangelize and things like that? Now, you know, they're a large part of the church that has fully embraced the idea of women in ministry, like the Anglican Church and United Church of Christ, Methodist churches and things like that. Now, they have they have brought women in, but they've done so in in a manner in which they reject what Paul has said. They reject the authority of scripture and they bring in women. They ordain them as priests and pastors and ministers and so forth. And they don't come in and glorify God and teach the Bible because they're liberal already anyway. They don't even believe the Bible. So they just do whatever people who go to church and don't believe the Bible do. I don't know why anybody would do that, but some people do. But then there are denominations that are not liberal in that sense, but they still allow women to be in the position of pastor. Many of the Pentecostal denominations allow women pastors. So when you look at that and occasionally you will find that, you know, a lady will be in that position and she'll be doing a fairly good job at what she's doing. What do you do with that? How do you how do you understand that or how do you address that or what what should you do about it? Well, this is my opinion. And that's all I can give you. God has a rule and we've just been studying the rule. A woman is not to teach or to have authority over a man. But quite honestly, there are sometimes exceptions to the rule. Now, I don't think we should ever intentionally violate the rule. But sometimes. Perhaps there isn't a man around. And there's a woman who's willing. And sometimes God will use a woman. And we do see in the scriptures, we do see occasionally where God makes exceptions to his rule. Now, of course, not in anything that is genuinely an issue of godliness or morality or holiness, purity, things like that. Not not in those areas. God doesn't make exceptions in those areas, but he does make exceptions in other areas. And I think that that's how we have to understand those things. My wife's aunt, my mother-in-law, Kay, her sister, was a pastor of a church in Phoenix, Arizona. And she was a godly woman and she loved the Lord. No question about it. Loved the Lord, loved the word of God, taught the word, exhorted the people, blessed and ministered to many people. And, you know, she went to that place. In the days when they could not find a man to go, no men were available, no men were willing, no men were wanting to go. And she stood up and said, I'll go and she went and God blessed it. And so those kinds of things occasionally, I think we have to be careful not to just write something off, say, oh, that's, you know, sometimes people could just go completely over the top. Oh, that's up the devil. That woman did that. That's up the devil. No way, man, you know. And, you know, people are getting saved and God's doing well, that's up the devil, because look right here, it says that a woman can't do that. There are exceptions. And God is the one who makes those exceptions. Like I said, I don't think we should ever intentionally go against the rule. But if that if we do see that occasionally, then just have to let God do what he wants. He's going to do it anyway, whether we let him or not. But I think that's the best way to to understand those kinds of things. They are exceptions. But this is the rule. And so we continue on next week and we will look at the qualifications for those who hold the position of the overseer, the pastor of the church.