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Seeing Jesus and the Father
Zac Poonen

Zac Poonen (1939 - ). Christian preacher, Bible teacher, and author based in Bangalore, India. A former Indian Naval officer, he resigned in 1966 after converting to Christianity, later founding the Christian Fellowship Centre (CFC) in 1975, which grew into a network of churches. He has written over 30 books, including "The Pursuit of Godliness," and shares thousands of free sermons, emphasizing holiness and New Testament teachings. Married to Annie since 1968, they have four sons in ministry. Poonen supports himself through "tent-making," accepting no salary or royalties. After stepping down as CFC elder in 1999, he focused on global preaching and mentoring. His teachings prioritize spiritual maturity, humility, and living free from materialism. He remains active, with his work widely accessible online in multiple languages. Poonen’s ministry avoids institutional structures, advocating for simple, Spirit-led fellowships. His influence spans decades, inspiring Christians to pursue a deeper relationship with God.
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Sermon Summary
This sermon emphasizes the importance of having a revelation of Jesus Christ and the Father in building a New Covenant Church. It highlights the need to see Jesus as a triumphant, beautiful, and conquering Savior, and to understand the Father's deep love and care for each individual. The focus is on seeking a personal encounter with Jesus and the Father through the Holy Spirit, rather than just following doctrines or rituals.
Sermon Transcription
So we were looking at Matthew chapter 16 and verse 18 and we saw the importance of revelation last time because Jesus told Simon in verse 17, blessed are you Simon for flesh and blood has not revealed this Christ me as the Christ the son of the living God to you but my father in heaven. And then he said on this rock, I will build my church. So we want to look at who this revelation was about. So often when people seek to build a new covenant church, they think in terms of the pattern. I've been in numerous churches where they emphasize the pattern. There are churches that glory in the fact that we don't have a pastor, we've got elders, which is the New Testament pattern. Or we don't emphasize tithing, which is old covenant, but giving, which is new covenant, cheerfully, secretly, or in the pattern of meetings that we don't have titles and we give freedom to people to share. But you know, I have seen in many, many local churches that do all these things, there's as much spiritual death as in a lot of other churches that don't follow any of these patterns. They're a completely old covenant. So there's something missing. You can follow a pattern. It's something like the Old Testament tabernacle. If you see the Philistines built it, they got a copy of what Moses had written. They built a tabernacle and they could build a tabernacle exactly like that because all the details are there in Exodus 25 to 40. But there's one thing they wouldn't be able to reproduce, and that's the fire from heaven. No human fire could replace the fire from heaven. So we must always remember that the distinctive feature of the Old Testament tabernacle, which is a picture of the Christian, the Christian home, and the Christian church, that tabernacle is the picture of these three. The distinctive feature of that tabernacle was not the pattern. It was the fire, the glory of God that came upon it when they did exactly as the Lord commanded. So those who glory in a pattern can end in spiritual death, and that's what happened to Israel when later on in later years they had the tabernacle, the temple, which replaced the tabernacle, and the glory departed. But the temple was exactly according to the pattern that God had given David. But glory wasn't there. That is a condition of five of the churches in Revelation and the condition of many, many churches today that preach all the right doctrines about salvation, baptism in the Holy Spirit, etc. So through many years of observation, I have come to this conclusion that the mark of a New Testament or a New Covenant church is the presence of Jesus Christ in all his power in the midst of that church. If Christ is in the midst of a fellowship of people, whether it's three people or 300, that is a New Covenant church. Otherwise, you can have exactly the same pattern as in the New Testament, but it's not a New Covenant church. And this is something we must keep very clearly in our minds. That's what we always seek to have. For myself as a preacher of God's Word, you know, it's important to have the right doctrine. I don't devalue that. It's very important to have the right doctrine. There are a lot of false doctrines that end up as cults. It's important to present truth in a way that people can receive, in a way that's clear, in a way that's interesting, in a way that's without compromise the whole truth of God. But having done all this, if people don't sense that Jesus spoke to them, I wasted my time. And that's how a lot of preachers are wasting their time. So I'm not so interested in seeing that all my words are exactly right. I want to make sure that Christ is there, Jesus. And that can, for all of us, you know, as I said, the tabernacle is a picture of our personal life, our home, and in our church. I want people who come to my home to meet with Jesus. That's the main thing. Whether it's a hut or a palace, if they meet with Jesus, your home is a Christian home. Otherwise, you can have a little text up there, Christ is the head of this home, and so on and so on. He's not there. Many homes, Christ is not there, even though they call themselves Christians. The fire is missing. They can sing songs and believe all the right things, but Christ is not there. And there are people you meet also. It's the same thing in our personal life. The tabernacle is a picture of our personal life. The most important thing in my life, your life, should be the presence of Jesus, the fire of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit brings the presence of Jesus Christ. As I grew up as a young person, young Christian, every now and then, it was very rarely, but every now and then, I would meet a brother in whom I so sensed the presence of Christ that I could never forget it. There was something about that. It was not the doctrine, it was not sometimes there were people from some other denomination, but there was something of the presence of Jesus in that person. And my dear brothers and sisters, I don't know if that's the longing of your heart, that people who meet with you should meet with Jesus Christ. And people who come into your home should sense the presence of Christ in your home. People who come to our church should sense the presence of Christ. If that is there, we are in the new covenant. If not, I always fear when teaching scripture, and there's so many things in scripture. For example, last Sunday, we spoke about revelation. That can become a thing for you, revelation. That's the main thing. And you can end up with a lot of heathen teaching about mysticism. And it's not only in Christianity, they talk about that type of stuff. It's not revelation, it's the revelation of Jesus Christ. So though we look at, you know, like when doctors study different parts of the human body, Bible study is something like that. But the body is not the liver or the kidney or the eyes or the ears, the body is something. I mean, if you just take these parts by themselves, they look very ugly. But think of a person himself, you look at a person that's so attractive the way God's made the human body. So I emphasize this, because there are people I've met, who are taken up with different aspects of the New Testament, New Covenant church and pattern and this and that. I mean, it's like magnifying the liver or the kidney or the eyes or the ears. And I see, you know, all of them must be there. We can study them separately, like medical students study the human body separately in their colleges. But ultimately, it's not those things by themselves, that are the bodies. It's the presence of Jesus, the life in the body that makes a body a body, worthwhile. So here it says about Peter, that God had given him that revelation. And when you think of how he had first met Jesus, you know, Andrew, his brother, brought Peter to Jesus and said, we found the Messiah. And a few days later, I want you to see this in Matthew chapter four. Matthew chapter four, we read, as Jesus was walking, verse 18. As Jesus was walking by the Sea of Galilee, he saw these two brothers, Simon and Andrew, his brother, they were working, they were not just sitting chatting. They were casting a net into the sea to catch fish to support their families. And he said to them, follow me, I will make you fishers of men. Immediately, they left their nets and followed him. Now, do you believe it happened like that? Do you believe they were just about to cast the net, maybe the 15th time to catch fish, they already had some fish there. And Jesus comes by and says, follow me. Do you believe the word immediately? I believe it. I believe they just dropped the nets and followed him. I think they're not even worried if somebody else is going to come and steal the nets or the fish they caught that day. How does that happen? Can such a thing happen today, where a person suddenly drops everything and says, Jesus is everything for me now on? You say not possible. Have you heard of a thing between boys and girls called love at first sight? There is such a thing. That you can believe. Because as soon as a boy sees some girl or girl sees a boy, I don't know whether it works both ways, but hey, this is the one I'm going to marry. They don't even know the person's name. They don't even know anything about that person. And it's even more wonderful when we see Jesus like that. And it's love at first sight. And those are the people. Unfortunately, some of these married couples who married with love at first sight, they don't endure with that type of love, sometimes even six months. That's unfortunate. But when we are gripped by Jesus Christ with that love at first sight, which came by the revelation from the Father as to who Jesus was and how wonderful he is, if we continue in that, it gets better and better and better as time goes on. I can certainly tell you that's true in my life. I'm not trying to sell anything. I'm not trying to sell Jesus Christ or tell you to do anything. I'm just giving you my testimony. And I can stand before God and tell you it's an honest testimony. I didn't come to Christ to be saved from hell. I didn't come to Christ to have a ministry. I came to Christ because I just fell in love with him. When I saw, I mean, there was a reason for it. I mean, a boy looks at a girl and there's a reason for it, usually a pretty face. But in my case, also, there was a reason. To the fact that his love, I was gripped by how much he loved me, how much he had sacrificed to save me from an eternal hell, and how much he loved me too, that if I were the only sinner in the whole world, he would have given himself for me. It's that revelation that came to me, that came to Peter, that made him drop everything. I want to say, it's to such a Peter that Jesus said, blessed are you. You've seen something which other human beings haven't seen. How did it happen? Was it because he was more educated or read the Bible more or he understood all the pictures of Christ in the Old Testament? No, I don't think Peter was a great scholar. In fact, he writes in his second letter that some of the things that Paul writes are a bit tough to understand. He's a simple man, a simple fisherman. If you go down to the coasts of India and see fishermen, you see how completely uneducated they are. And I look at some of them and I say, this is what the great apostle Peter looked like. What did he have? He didn't have all the cleverness and education that most of us have, but he got revelation from the Father that he saw the beauty of Jesus. And I'll tell you, my brothers and sisters, this is my greatest heartache that so many people in our church here and in many other churches related to us are not falling in love with Jesus Christ. I don't mean this emotional, frothy type of love that some half-converted cowboys sing in today's charismatic songs. I don't mean that type of rubbish. I'm talking about devotion to Christ that brings total obedience. Peter didn't sing a love song to Jesus and carry on with his nets. I don't think he could sing. He was not interested in singing, hold me close, never let me go, and all that type of stuff. No, he dropped his nets and he did something. That's what I want to ask you. Not how emotional you feel when you sing some of these moving songs that clever songwriters can write because they know how to move people's emotions. I mean, worldly songwriters who love to sing love songs know how to move people's emotions. I don't mean that. I mean, what have you dropped in order to follow Jesus? Did you drop some net when you saw Jesus? Boy, this is what I've always looked for. I'm not talking about giving up your job. I'm talking about giving up yourself. That's the net you've got to drop. Paul never gave up his job. He continued all through his life, as far as we know, working. He was a Christian businessman, but he was an apostle who supported himself. But he was gripped. See what it says here further. Immediately, they left their nets and they followed him. And then going on from there, he saw two other brothers. Now listen to this. This is even more wonderful. James, the son of Zebedee, and John, his brother. Now, as far as I know, these were the cousins of Jesus. Zebedee was married to Mary's sister. So they were first cousins of Jesus Christ. And they were working with their father, mending nets. You know, they were stitching the torn nets. One of the things I've seen is that the Lord always calls people who are hardworking. I never see Jesus in the Scriptures calling a lazy man to follow him. And I've never seen in my life a lazy person being an effective disciple of Jesus Christ. Hardworking people who are very, very faithful in their earthly jobs. Even Elijah, when he was told by God to go and call Elisha, he saw faithfully plowing the field and he called him. And the guy dropped everything and followed Elijah. This is the thing, you know, the Lord always looks to see whether people are utterly faithful and hardworking in their earthly occupations. I never find Jesus going to somebody's house where some lazy fellow is just lying on his bed and say, come and follow me. Or some unemployed person who wanted to find a job in some Christian organization or some person who finished school but got such poor marks, he couldn't get admission to any college. So Jesus says, come and join a Bible college. I've never heard of such thing. Those things are being done today by people who don't know Jesus at all. But I always find in Scripture, show me if you find another example, Jesus calling people who are hardworking in their earthly jobs. And not people who, listen to this, when the net is a little torn, throw it away and say, hey, we'll buy a new net. We are rich people. No, he doesn't call such people. He calls people who say, well, we can stitch that net. We don't have to throw it away. Do you have that attitude? Are you so wealthy that you can just throw away things? Well, there are certain things you can learn in these little things. They were mending their nets and they were with their father. And he said the same thing to them. Come follow me. I presume the same words, make your fishes with men. Again, you see that word immediately. It was love at first sight. And these were some of Jesus' greatest apostles, Peter and Andrew and James and John. There was something about them. You know, they were gripped by Jesus Christ. They were not gripped by some teaching on New Covenant Church or even on the New Covenant. They were gripped by a person, Jesus Christ. Remember, the New Covenant is all about a person. He is the mediator of the New Covenant. It's his blood, which is the blood of the New Covenant. It's the blood of a person. He's the person we must be gripped with. Then we shall build the church. Then Jesus will say to us, blessed are you. You're one of those rare people among my children who got revelation on who I am. And it says immediately they left the boat. And I'm sure what was much more difficult, they left their father. Now, Jewish culture is very similar to Indian culture. I tell you, it's difficult to leave your parents. It's different from Western culture today where they leave their parents and go off when they're 16 or 17 years old. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about these people who are so attached to their parents. I wonder what the father thought about it. Hey, what are you doing, man? We haven't finished stitching this net and you're running after this cousin of yours. Sorry, dad, we've seen something. I don't know whether his dad ever became a disciple. How many of you would take a stand against your dad or mom like that? See, I've seen Jesus. I've seen something. I had two occasions like that with my own dad. When I was about 15 years old and I got selected to join the Military Academy, my dad said to me, it was way back in 1954, I want you to be the admiral of the Navy. I want you to go and work hard. I wasn't converted. I said, great, that's what I want to be. And I went and I worked and I did all that I could and worked towards that goal. And I got converted when I was 19 and a half. Suddenly, my ambitions changed. I was baptized when I was 21 and then the Christian life became really serious for me. And when I was 24 years old, 24 and a half, the Lord said, quit your job. And I was working towards this goal that my father had given me. But I knew that as a Christian, it'd be a little difficult to reach the top. But when the Lord called me, I put in my resignation and I told my dad, I'm resigning. I'm quitting. I didn't ask his permission. I didn't bother about the ambition he had for me. I'm not saying despise your parents. You're going to honor our father and mother. And I think I honored my father and mother until the end of their lives. But there was something higher. They left their father immediately, followed Jesus. I've seen people who do that. People have honored their father tremendously and mother who care for them, love them. It is a pain to leave. I mean, if it's easy for you to leave your father and mother, then you're probably not doing it in the right way. But if it's a pain, it was a pain for them, but they had seen something in Jesus Christ. These are the people who build a new covenant church. Because in the new covenant church, family relationships are not primary. I'm not saying they're not important, but they're not primary. I can testify to that. My relationship with brothers and sisters who love Jesus Christ supremely is far closer than my relationship with my own blood relatives. I'll tell you that honestly. It's true. It's been true for many years. And that's why my Christian life has been so happy. And that's why my ministry has made me so happy. I'm not bored in serving God. I'm not at all. I'm far more excited today than I was when I started serving God 50 years ago. Because I've seen something in Jesus. And I feel this is, as I said, my greatest heartache that so many brothers and sisters who understand all the doctrines we preach here and talk about victory over sin, haven't seen Jesus. They're looking for victory over sin. I'll tell you victory over sin is in Jesus. It's not in a doctrine. It's not in your pursuit. I mean, a lot of non-Christian religions that also pursue after some type of purity and all that type of stuff. But it's apart from Christ. It's not an it that we pursue. You It's an it. It's not it. It's him. Otherwise it would be like marrying a girl because she's a good cook. It's a pretty poor reason for marrying a girl. Or because she's good at washing clothes. Or good at keeping house. Or even because I want to have children. Or I want to have sexual satisfaction. These are all very, very poor reasons for marriage. And people who marry with these reasons usually have pretty unhappy marriages. Why do we come to Christ? That's the important thing. See the Apostle Paul. What he says in Galatians in chapter one. How was Paul convinced of the truth of Christianity? Was it because he heard a powerful sermon one day? Somebody convinced him that Jesus is the Messiah? No. He had heard a lot of sermons and he didn't turn him to Christ. It made him anti-Christ and would kill Christians. Till one day he didn't he didn't hear a sermon. He met Jesus. Says in Galatians chapter one in verse 15. But when God who had set me apart even from my mother's womb called me through his grace was pleased to reveal his son in me. Again you see that word reveal. It pleased God to give me revelation on Christ where? Where? In me. That is more than seeing Jesus up there in heaven on the Damascus road. That was an external vision. And an inward vision is a million times greater than an external vision. I'm not very impressed by people who tell me they've seen angels. Somebody says I saw one angel. I say I saw two angels. I say I've seen Jesus. What do you mean talking about angels? Now I've seen Jesus in me which is a million times better than seeing him on the outside because I don't know what he looks like. Can you tell me what Jesus looks like? All the beautiful pictures you've seen of him are wrong. How will you know somebody if you don't even know what he looks like? But when I've seen him inwardly boy I know it's the truth. I hope you'll be convinced. I am. That seeing Jesus inwardly is far greater than seeing him on the outside because the Bible says the devil comes as an angel of light. So if you saw an angel one day in your room I wouldn't know whether it was a devil or a real angel according to scripture in second Corinthians 11. Even if someone claimed to be Jesus you don't know whether it's it's a fake. But when you see Christ inwardly when the father reveals Christ inwardly you say how how can you do how is that? Well the secret of the Lord is with those who fear and those who hunger and thirst. You know there's a law in scripture which says I mean you must always remember this it's Jeremiah 29 and verse 13. It's a law. How can I be protected from false teaching and so many things like that? Jeremiah 29 13 you will seek me and find me when you search for me with all your heart. You know why Paul found Christ? Because he was seeking for him with all his heart. He was completely wrong. He was going in the exact opposite direction killing Christians thinking that Jesus was a heretic false prophet but God could turn him around because he was seeking God with all his heart and God knew he was completely wrong. He had a professor in Bible school. Paul by the way went to Bible school for three years before he was converted and that's why after he was converted God sent him to the desert for three years to get all that stuff out of his head. But he had a professor in Bible school called Gamaliel. You read about him in Acts chapter 5. That guy didn't seek after God with all his heart. He was a moderate type of nice type of person who believed in psychology and don't harm anybody be nice to everyone. He never found God. He lived and died a Jew as far as I know but his student who said if Gamaliel what Gamaliel has taught me is true then these Christians are heretics. This can't be the Messiah and he was dead in earnest to kill the Christians. That's the person God turned around. So when you seek God with all your heart, all your soul and say Lord I want to find you. I really want to know you. I want to know you. I always when I read that I think of Sadhu Sundar Singh when he was just about 14 or 15 years old. Can you look at a boy here 14-15 years old? 14-15 years old. 9th standard boy or 10th standard boy seeking God early in the morning at four o'clock. Crying out saying oh God I can't live without you. I want you. I don't know who you are. He was a Sikh and he thought some one of those gods he worshipped would appear. No suddenly he saw Jesus and he got the biggest shock of his life because he thought Christians were all fake and he had torn Bibles and it turned his life around. His parents tried to poison him. He became the greatest saint India has ever known. He didn't know the Bible as well as all of us. I'm sure he couldn't explain the new covenant like you and I can but he lived it. He couldn't talk about victory over sin. I don't read it in his writings but he lived a greater life of purity than many people who talk about victory over sin and though he died nearly 80 years ago he's influenced the church in India more than many other people who know so many doctrines. He certainly influenced my life when I was a young man. I was challenged by this man. What did he see? Not a doctrine. He saw Jesus. What did Paul see? Jesus. What did Peter see that made him drop his nets? Jesus. What did James and John see that made them drop their father and everything? Jesus. As I was saying the second time it happened was when after I'd left my job and I was traveling around and the different parts of the world and had books and radio programs and it's becoming more and more famous and I got sick and tired of all the corruption and debt there was in a lot of Christendom and I decided to chuck everything not Christianity or Christ but all this external stuff and say Lord I want reality. I want to see a church which is like in the scriptures. I don't see it around. I gave up all those things. I started meeting in my home with four or five people. My dad said what are you doing? Okay, quitting the Navy is okay but you've got such a fantastic gift that you can be a tremendous blessing around the world with your preaching gift. You're just sitting here with four or five people. He said dad you don't understand. I'm not called to be a famous preacher. I will not use my preaching gift to make myself famous. I want to build the body of Christ and it looked pretty hopeless at that stage. Those who were there then no. I think there are only one or two here who maybe two or three who were there then. I've seen that if you really see Jesus you may have to ignore and my dad was a very very fine believer. God-fearing man. Sometimes you have to ignore even the advice of such people because you see something in Jesus somebody else may not have seen and you don't gloat over it. I never gloated oh I've seen something my dad hasn't seen. Never. Flesh and blood did not reveal it to me. You can't take credit in something that God showed you. If you've really seen Jesus it'll make you very humble not proud. I mean if you're proud of some revelation you've got brother you haven't seen Jesus. You probably saw some fake Christ another Jesus. Nobody can see the real Jesus and have an atom of pride left in him. If you have still pride left in you brother sister you need to see Jesus more clearly. You cannot have it and that is the revelation on which Jesus said I will build my church. Have you seen Jesus like that? Today we see him risen triumphant. It's not a Jesus hanging on the cross you know this weak picture of Christ that the devil likes to present to all humanity. Which are the most famous pictures of paintings of Christ or pictures of Christ or statues? One is at Christmas time they have those little babies the Christmas cards millions of Christmas cards and they have some shows also where they have this little baby lying in a manger a helpless Jesus who can do nothing. That's one picture. The other famous picture is of Jesus hanging on the cross. Also very helpless what can he do? These are the pictures the devil wants to promote and the third one is this thing called sacred heart where Jesus looks like a woman and says I'll bless you if you put my picture in your house. Effeminate. Have you ever seen a picture of a muscular Jesus coming out of the tomb resurrected with the devil under his feet? Such paintings the devil will not permit to be popular. Always this effeminate weak Jesus and so the result is that we've got a whole bunch of Christians who are also weak and effeminate. They're scared of this thing scared of that thing. They only feel that human beings alone can help them. There's I know there's a father in heaven but it's all theory. It doesn't work and there is a Christ who's supposed to conquer everything but I'm still depressed and gloomy and disturbed and upset and I don't get victory over even ordinary things like anger. It's a pretty pathetic Christ. You know what you need brother sister? You don't need a theory. You don't need to understand the doctrine of victory over sin. You need to see Jesus like Peter and Paul saw him in your heart. Don't look for an outer vision. I've never seen an outer vision of Christ and I look forward to the day when I shall see him face to face for the first time when he comes again. How will I recognize him? I'll recognize him by the print of the nails in his hand. He'll be the only one who has it but that's but the inner revelation of Christ. That's what we need. When we see that we will say words like that hymn writer said show me your face O Lord. One transient gleam of loveliness divine and I shall never think or dream of other love save thine. All lesser light will darken quite. All lower glories will wane and the beautiful things of earth and beautiful people of earth will never seem beautiful again. The beautiful things of earth will never seem beautiful again. The beautiful people on earth will never seem beautiful again. You'll overcome lust that way. So many people have such a struggle conquering lust, lust, lust. Oh brother what to do? I'm always tempted by some pretty girl. You need to see Jesus brother. The beautiful things of earth will never seem beautiful again. You'll see them just as a nice arrangement of molecules on a skeleton. That's all because you've seen Jesus. The most wonderful thing of all. Wonderful person of all and it's not something I can show you by a message but it's a person you can see yourself inwardly. You're going to have the same testimony that Paul had. The father revealed Jesus in me. I want to tell all of you. I plead with you. I want to tell you. You're missing something if you haven't seen him in your heart. You've missed the most important thing in the Christian life. Imagine if you were invited to see some big king. Supposing India was ruled by a king in those days. You know the king was the most important person. Let's use that example. Who is very rarely does he meet people like kings today and if you were invited to go and meet the king one day and led into the palace and all you did was look around all the wonderful rooms and the gardens of the palace and came away without seeing the king and all you can talk about is the palace and the rooms and the paintings and the gardens. That's how many Christians are. They missed seeing the king. Has that happened to you? Have you missed seeing the king and you're taken up with doctrines, truths, victory over sin, many many good truths, even body of Christ, new covenant, new covenant home, new covenant church, good family life. All those things are not the main thing. Don't be satisfied until you've seen the king himself and been gripped by his beauty. There's a song of Frederick Faber. He's one of my favorite songwriters and by the way he was a Roman Catholic but he knew Jesus better than most of us I think. You know that song, my God how wonderful thou art, thy majesty how bright, how beautiful thy mercy's seat in depths of burning light. Then that I think it's the last verse one of the verses is father of Jesus loves reward. What's the reward? What rapture will it be? Prostrate before thy throne to lie and gaze and gaze on thee. You say I'm going to get bored gazing on the father or on Jesus, not me. Have you seen the type of look a man has when he sees a really pretty girl he wants to marry say in some hall or something and always his eyes are moving towards that person. Some of you may know it. Is it a problem for him? In fact he's trying to hide the fact that he's always wanting to look at her. You know you don't have to force him, you don't have to force him. There's something within him that pulls his eyes that way. By the way that's the way you should all look at your wives in case you didn't know. That's the way God wants you to look at your wife. That's the way I try to look at my wife, the wife of your youth the bible calls her. But it's even more wonderful when you're drawn to Jesus. Father of Jesus loves reward. What rapture will it be? Prostrate to gaze and gaze on thee. Is it going to be boring? For that boy it's only a temporary thing. If he meets and marries her he'll get fed up with her in six months. That interest is gone but not with Christ. I found it even more wonderful after being a believer for 50 years to really see the glory of Jesus Christ. And for me my ministry of building churches anywhere or planting churches or shepherding the elders of these churches, it comes out of having seen Jesus as the head and what he wants. Why is prayer so boring for many people? I'm not talking about prayer as a ritual. All religions pray. The pharisees pray. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about a talk with Jesus. That's called praying a talk with Jesus Christ. When I talk to him he listens to me. A phone call with Jesus Christ. That's what I call prayer. Why is it boring? Because there's no love. Supposing I see a young boy and girl who say they're in love with each other and the girl's always looking at the watch. It's time to go. I can tell you they are not in love with each other. When they're in love with each other, they want to go to a place where nobody else can see them. I said, boy, eight hours. I thought it was only five minutes. That's how they feel. Eight hours? I thought we were just talking for five minutes. There are people who love like that on earth. And when we talk to Jesus, if it's boring, it's exactly like that couple who say they love one another and five minutes they're looking at their watch. I thought it was five hours. It's only five minutes. See the difference? It's a matter of love. And if you don't love Jesus, I'll tell you right now, prayer will be boring to you. Talking to Jesus will be the most boring thing of all because you can't even see him. Yeah. Let me say one more thing here. John Matthew chapter 16. Blessed are you. Remember, we're looking at the rock on which the new covenant church is built. Revelation of Jesus, the triumphant Christ who has overcome Satan, who we can gaze on for eternity and never get bored, who we can talk to, who we can hear in our hearts. If I heard with this year, I wouldn't know whether it was the devil faking Christ's voice. But when I hear it in my heart, I know it's Christ because the devil can't hear my thoughts. The devil is a created being. He can only operate on the outside. He doesn't know what's going on inside our spirit. If I pray silently, the devil can't hear me. If I pray with my tongue, the devil can hear me. If I pray in tongues, the devil can hear, but he can't understand. Matthew 16 in verse 17. Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but my Father in heaven. Now the Father reveals Jesus to us and then the next step is in Matthew 11 where Jesus says in verse 27. Now both these are necessary if you want to really build a new covenant church on a rock. We're looking at the rock. You know in that place, there were two things, two persons mentioned, the Father and Christ. You need to see both clearly. Matthew 11 verse 27. All things have been handed over to be my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father. You can't know Jesus. It's only the Father knows the Son. You think you can know Jesus by reading the Bible? Oh, you think so. There are millions of people who read the Bible who went to hell, who don't know Jesus, and many others were born again who read the Bible, who don't have a passionate love for Jesus Christ. Their job is more important. Their family is more important. There's so many 101 earthly things are more important to them. I say these guys haven't seen Christ. The other thing is it says here no one knows the Father except the Son. You can't know God as a Father, but the Son knows, and anyone to whom the Son chooses or wills to reveal Him. So the Father reveals the Son to me, and I'm gripped by Jesus. That's what happened to me first of all. I was gripped with the beauty of Jesus Christ. I loved Him with all my heart. Nothing was important to me after that, not my job, not my career in the Navy, and later on not even my fame in Christian circles or becoming a world-famous preacher. It was like rubbish compared to becoming a world-famous preacher. It was like rubbish compared to Jesus. Jesus, that was the main thing. It still is. Building a new covenant church, that's not the main thing. Jesus Christ, and then Jesus did a second thing. I mean the Father revealed Jesus to me, and then Jesus revealed the Father. That's did that change my life. That's the other thing you need to see. So many people haven't seen the Father. Jesus said to His disciples once, I don't have to tell the Father. The Father Himself loves you. A lot of Christians have the idea that God the Father is a very angry type of person, and Jesus sort of comes in the way and stops Him from getting angry at us. That's the portrait the devil paints before us. Remember, it's the Father who loved you and sent Jesus to be your Savior. And then there's another type of teaching which says that Jesus is also angry with us, but you've got to get Mary to come there and say, hey, hang on, don't punish this person. All types of wrong teachings. One group of Christians think Mary has to come in between to protect us from the anger of Jesus Christ. Another group of Christians who think they are better than the other group, they think that the Father is angry, but Jesus comes to sort of protect us from His anger. Both of you are crazy. Both groups. Wrong. 100% wrong. The Father Himself loves you. If you haven't understood that, ask Jesus to reveal the Father to you. If you really, first of all, get gripped with Jesus, the next thing He'll show you is the Father. But I've got a daddy in heaven. I love so many times to just sit back and look up to heaven and say, Dad, it's so good that you're my dad. I'm so happy. I don't have a care in the world because you're my dad and you run the universe and every petty little problem here is something you can take care of. There's nothing you can't handle. Do you have that joy of looking up to heaven and talking to a Father who is intensely interested in every little detail of your life? I remember with my four boys at home, I was very interested in every detail of their life. I tried to be a good father to them, but I'm a very pathetic father compared to God, our Heavenly Father, who's interested in every little detail about them. I like that translation in Job chapter 23, verse 10. Job 23 and verse 10 in the Living Bible says, He knows every detail concerning me. The Living Bible paraphrase is beautiful. He knows every detail about me concerning me. The New Testament promise is even more wonderful in Romans 8, 28, which says He plans everything. He just doesn't know it. Knowing means He doesn't influence it. But now He not only knows, He influences it, that it will work for my good. I have a father in heaven. That's why I'm secure. I had a great longing in my life many, many years ago as a young Christian. But when I come to the end of my life, and that people who examined, who could examine every detail of my life, how did this guy survive? How did he survive spiritually till the end? How did he survive financially? How did he survive in a world that is so antagonistic to Christ? There must be only one explanation. This person must be having a heavenly father. There's no other human explanation for it. I wanted that. And I said, Lord, I want to produce people who also have that type of testimony at the end of their life. But there's no human explanation for this guy's survival, except that he's got a father in heaven who filled him with the Holy Spirit. Seek ye first the kingdom of God. All these other things will be added to you. That is God's will. He wants many, many of us, all of us preferably, to be living testimonies wherever we live and work. You know, there are a whole lot of people you know who nobody else in this room knows, right? For example, your relatives. There are many people in your place of work who nobody else in this room knows. It's only you. There's a little world of people who only you know. I don't know them and nobody else in this room knows them. And there are so many of those people you know will never come to CFC or to a meeting. God sent you into the midst of that little world because he loved that world. God so loved that teeny-weeny world of people whom you know that he sent his only begotten son, you, or daughter, so that none of them may perish but have eternal life. That's why he kept you there. And that's why it's so important that what they see in you is not a doctrine but Jesus. What they see in you is a life free from anxiety and fear because they see you've got a heavenly father. I'm not giving a pep talk, brothers and sisters. You know how before football games and the coach comes and gives them a pep talk and they all rev it up to play for the next 90 minutes and then they're all worn out. A lot of people, a lot of people's Christian Sunday morning services are like that. It's like a pep talk that keeps them going for a little while and then it's like giving an injection to a dying man and he jumps out of bed and you think he's all right but as the injection wears out he's back again to his gloom and his depression. Many Christians are like that. They come for Sunday for a pep talk. They never get over their depression. They never get over their anxiety. They never get over their discouragement. They never get over their bitterness. They still can't forgive people. They still love money like anything and things on earth are a million times more important than things in heaven until they come to the next pep talk. They get all revved up sometimes for one day, sometimes for two three days but it wears out. Ask God to fill you with his Holy Spirit. Say Lord Jesus help me to have the power of your Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit will show you Jesus. The Holy Spirit will show you the Father. The Bible says when the Spirit has come. Jesus said that in John 6 16. He will take of the things of mine and show it to you. It's the Holy Spirit has shown me Jesus as I read through the scriptures. In the early days I studied it for doctrine because I was in an assembly where they studied the Bible like we study a chemistry book to get a PhD in chemistry. They wanted to get a PhD in the Bible but now I study the Bible to see Jesus. The Holy Spirit shows me Jesus. Suddenly you get a revelation. Hey that's what Jesus is like. I see the Spirit of God make me like that. Make me like that. Paul said to Timothy you must be so gripped and give yourself so much to these things that other people looking at your life should be able to say hey we see a change in Timothy. It's not the same old Timothy you knew 10 years ago. People should be able to say that about you and me. Hey this is not the same person I knew a few years ago. I mean it's all conduct and ministry and message. It's all so different. Are you growing? The Holy Spirit in Romans 8 says comes within us and shows us the Father. Cries out our Father. That's the ministry of the Holy Spirit. It's not just to make you speak in tongues. So you're speaking in tongues if you haven't seen Jesus and haven't seen the Father. Ask God to fill you with the Holy Spirit so that you can see Jesus and really love him with all your heart. See his beauty like the great saints of old have seen him. Then it'll be easy to worship him. Then it'll be easy to have that phone call with him every now and then. Tell him everything that's in your heart and listen to what he's saying to you. Then you will know the Father. The Holy Spirit will show you the Father who cares for you, is intensely interested in you, and who's planning every little detail in your life so that you can be the best person that he wanted you to be. Not better than others. I've never in my life wanted to be better than another Christian. But I wanted to be the best that God wanted me to be. Seek to be the best that God wants you to be. Don't get into competition with other Christians. I'm not interested. The opinion of men is worth nothing. Dear brothers and sisters, it's based on this revelation of Jesus and the Father that the New Covenant Church is built. And if you want to bring people into the New Covenant Church and build them on this foundation, they must get this revelation of Jesus who he is, this wonderful, beautiful person, this triumphant one who has conquered sin and the devil not a weak effeminate person and a Father in heaven who runs the universe. Once you get that revelation, we can build a church. Let's pray. Will you say to the Lord and say, Lord, I don't want this to be a pep talk for me. I want to seek you with all my heart till I've really found you the way the great saints have met you. I want to be one of them. There's no partiality with you. What you've done for others, you can do for me. Oh, Spirit of God, reveal Jesus to me. Reveal the Father to me. I don't want a doctrine. I want Jesus. Thank you, Father. I believe you heard the cry of every sincere person here. In Jesus name, Amen.
Seeing Jesus and the Father
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Zac Poonen (1939 - ). Christian preacher, Bible teacher, and author based in Bangalore, India. A former Indian Naval officer, he resigned in 1966 after converting to Christianity, later founding the Christian Fellowship Centre (CFC) in 1975, which grew into a network of churches. He has written over 30 books, including "The Pursuit of Godliness," and shares thousands of free sermons, emphasizing holiness and New Testament teachings. Married to Annie since 1968, they have four sons in ministry. Poonen supports himself through "tent-making," accepting no salary or royalties. After stepping down as CFC elder in 1999, he focused on global preaching and mentoring. His teachings prioritize spiritual maturity, humility, and living free from materialism. He remains active, with his work widely accessible online in multiple languages. Poonen’s ministry avoids institutional structures, advocating for simple, Spirit-led fellowships. His influence spans decades, inspiring Christians to pursue a deeper relationship with God.