This sermon reflects on the historical splits within the Dutch Mennonite church, emphasizing the importance of unity and resolving differences among believers. It highlights the consequences of unresolved conflicts within the church and the need to address them before they escalate. The sermon also underscores the significance of maintaining a community of believers united in the kingdom of God, encouraging self-reflection and humility in dealing with disagreements.

Anyway, so let's look today at the Dutch Mennonite church splits and what they can teach us today So if we could let's start off with a word of prayer Dear Heavenly Father We come to you in the name of Jesus Christ today Remembering that you called us you Gathered us and you said that it is you who will plant your church That you will cause your church You will make your church to be and you said that the gates of hell would not prevail against it You called us to unity a unity that we can even hardly understand the unity between you and the Father and the Holy Spirit So Lord as we look at these Brothers in Holland in this time period we ask you to please have us not have a judgmental spirit of them But perhaps see some of these things that are in our own hearts some of these Different spirits that are in our way we behave and I pray that we can learn lessons from that that we can glorify your name in our generation Oh God it's in Jesus name. We pray and father I do pray that you help me today to present these things factually and truthfully that you would be glorified through everything said It's in Jesus name. We pray. Amen Amen. All right a quick word on church splits. I have just a few passages here and if you look at my notes This I was up late again making sure that this These a lot of these things are factual So it's a little bit more than an outline type of form or just some of that consider it my notes Not a complete handout, but it helps me to follow through these different things And so as we look at these ideas of yes, sir. Oh, yeah Did you not get one and does anybody have one with a bunch of ink marks on it? Which was my copy? Yeah, I trade you All Right good. All right Okay. First of all the whole idea of church splits and it's my feeling that it grieves God Church splits and and the in many of the ways that we behave It's it's not a good thing and I I have here a scripture for us and a couple of them here I start off with Galatians 5 and this is the contrast remember with The fruit of the Spirit he begins with the works the flesh Paul does here to the Galatian Church He says now the works of the flesh are manifest. They're plain to see which are these adultery fornication uncleanness lasciviousness Idolatry witchcraft and those things are pretty obvious It's the other part of the list that I think we should pay attention to particularly with this message today and that is hatred variance emulations wrath strife Sedition heresies literally in the Greek the the ones who split envying murders drunkenness revilings and such like of The which I tell you before as I have also told you in time past that they which do such things Shall not inherit the kingdom of God In other words, it's not a minor point if however, you slice it if we're Part of expression if we're coming up with this kind of a feeling in our in our hearts and our churches and our spirit It's a serious offense to God and it's a serious sin. I think those those scriptures are clear Another passage that I tend to use and I've tried to use as a motto in my life is the passage there in Mark 9 It's an interesting passage when you go look it up Jesus the Apostles are running up to Jesus at this point complaining that people are casting out demons without them and They're doing it the wrong way And so they run up to Jesus and apparently these Apostles would prefer people to be demon-possessed Then not do it their way Saying and Jesus gives a very good rebuke to them after he first tells him today Well, you know if they're not against us their force But he gives us this word and I think it's a good word to kind of put over this whole era of what goes on He says salt is good He wants them to be salty the salt of the earth salt is good But if the salt has lost its saltiness its savors different translation wherewith will it be seasoned? How can it be salted again have salt within yourself? But have peace with one another That has become like a motto for me He didn't just say hey everything goes, you know be peace with everybody He also didn't say you've got to be salty But there's an incredible balance there between being very convinced very salty in yourself and your own congregations But when it's all said and done have peace with one another and It's a it's a good passage Now The other passage, you know, I think is in John 17 and I've thought of this passage a lot lately You know, I it came to my mind of thinking of a quote from a W Tozer and if I can paraphrase it poorly He said something to the effect that if every problem in our life in our church life can be attributed to a problem and an attribute or nature of God That somehow we're missing an attribute of God a nature or something about the nature of God and if you focus on if I can use the term here the brotherhood of the Trinity that's presented in John 17 and Our our command to represent that attribute of God It changes a lot of the ways of your thinking it changes your view of the church It changes your view of Christianity with that in mind read. Here's the verse in John 17 I'll just jump in now. They know now they have known that all things whatsoever. Thou hath given me are are thee are Thine for I have given unto them the words which thou gaveth me and they have received them and have known surely that I Come out from thee and they have believed that thou didst sent me. I pray for them I pray not for the world but for them which thou hath given me for they are thine and all Mine are thine and thine are mine and I am glorified in them So everything that I have is yours Everything you have is mine and then he prays a little bit that I should have cut off a little earlier May they be one in that same way He goes on neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word This is the talking about us receiving the word through the scriptures to our day That they may all be one To what degree Lord as thou father art in me and I in thee that they also may be one in us Why? But the world may believe that thou had sent me It's a testimony. He stakes his testimony. Our Lord stakes his testimony on this issue And so I think it's something for us to take very seriously Since we've been going through the whole church history I have a few quotes from early the early church and I'm giving them to you here and one is from Irenaeus a bishop in in France Leon's France around the year hundred and fifty and he has a Very interesting quote here about the desire to break apart and start different churches. I'm gonna give it to you He says Speaking of the judgment. He says he shall also judge those who give rise to schisms splits Who are destitute of the love of God and who look to their own special advantage rather than to the unity of the church and who for trifling reasons or any kind of reasons which occur to them cut in pieces and Divide the great and glorious body of Christ and so far as in them lies positively destroy it Listen how he goes on men who parade of peace They talk about peace while they give rise to war and do in truth strain out a gnat but swallow a camel For listen to this for no Reformation of so great importance can be affected by them as will compensate for the mischief Arising from their schism from their church split He shall also judge all those who are beyond the pale of the truth That is who are outside the church But he himself shall be judged by no one for all for him for to him all things are consistent For he has a full faith in one God He goes on and talks about the the one faith He also talks about the importance of the church as the way he sees it now We you can beg the question does that lead to Roman Catholicism to its extreme it does We feel just like in the book of Revelation there does come a time When Jesus seems to make it clear that a church has lost its lampstand there seems to be a time that that happens but with the wrong balance There are there with an imbalance I can think I think we can see do we even value the whole? idea of the concept of a unified church the way I think the early church did and more importantly the way Jesus did there's a a quote here by Cyprian that just I left here because it's such a An interesting quote if you can kind of put it into our our Time to come it's in year 250 and they're getting to a split over re-baptism And particularly here about baptizing heretics do you re-baptize them or not and they get into a split and he gets into this big division with these different priests and things and he says this and his attitude of This back-and-forth dialogue that they keep giving to each other and he says this these things of The pure conscience of my mind and Out of and of my confidence in my Lord and my God. I have written at length here It is you have my letter and I yours in the day of judgment Before the tribunal of Christ both will be read ouch You know And I think if we would keep that perspective and every time we send an email and every time we send Our rebukes to one another perhaps that would be a safer place for it to be Every one of these words will be will be written will be said will be spoken in the tribunal of God And so I think it's good to keep that in mind Okay, so let's bring it up to the to the to the Dutch In Holland there I thought I would just give a little bit again about some of the differences of the cultures that were in Holland because a lot of the original splits Came from a differences of two different people groups they were the Friesians and the Flemish and These different people groups we see kind of I'm a bad artist here The Friesians were up in the north and the Flemish came from south from Belgium and I have a little bit here of the history Even this whole division, you know how it is when it today with the Civil War I mean, I don't know if y'all been down in the south y'all from the south But I mean some people have still not quite got over the whole Civil War thing I mean, I mean seriously, I like my dad has never quite got over the Civil War thing for instance when I came up to to Pennsylvania, I he said So Dean that's the north I said and I said, yeah, well dad, you know Is it really isn't Pennsylvania really the north and he said with all seriousness? son Doesn't Gettysburg mean anything to you? He was dead serious. He wasn't kidding when we visited New York City. We took a little bus tour He wouldn't get out of the bus to go see grants to not doing it I mean some people never quite get over those things is what I'm trying to say when I was in Scotland, I noticed people still weren't getting over the whole Scottish English type of thing people carry these things for a long time I wonder with some of these big disputes and things and wars between the between the Flemish and the and the Friesians and the different people groups is Some of that to play. I don't know but you wonder here's some of the wars and things that that focus right around that air The Dutch War of Independence from Spain is frequently called the 80-year war They had this whole 80-year war and it ended same as the 30-year war on the same date But they kind of got started a little earlier in that however, only the first that says here first 50 years were uniquely a war between Spain and the Netherlands so when you When you go through the martyrs mirror and you see all that Spanish talk about the Spanish this in Spanish that and well I thought we were in Holland while we keep talking about the Spaniards. Why do they have the Spanish Inquisition in Holland? It's because of this huge fleet of Navy fleet and all the attackings of the the Spanish imperialism that had got up to this area During the last 30 years the conflict between Spain and the Netherlands Was submerged in the general European war that became known as a 30-year war. And so they eventually began to end that They finally had their declaration of independence sort of and 26 of July 1581 and they wanted their independence against the Spanish people William of Orange the first Becomes kind of an important figure Don't get him confused in history with William and Mary who later in the late 1600s came over to England. This is one of the first of William of Orange helped to cause more of this Independence from the Spanish and in particular a war that happened in that day The founder of the Dutch royal family when you hear all that stuff It's still in the Buckingham Palace and all that's told to the day The founder of the Dutch royal family led a Dutch led the Dutch during the first part of the war following the death of This guy here Igmont of Horn in 1568 the very first years were a success for the Spanish troops However, the Dutch countered subsequent sieges in Holland and then back and forth the Spanish Kings lost control of Netherlands after a sack on Antwerp Antwerp was one of the main cities or maybe perhaps the main city of Belgium one of them and they had a main Attacking of Antwerp and were able to to take Antwerp and so that looked like for a while Hey, maybe Holland was going to get this The Spanish Kings lost control Of the Netherlands and the sack of Antwerp by a mutant mutinying Spanish soldiers and killed over 10,000 inhabitants the conservative Catholics in the south and the east supported the Spanish the Spanish recaptured Antwerp and other Flemish and Dutch cities And when this happened the fall of Antwerp was a pretty significant thing a pretty significant war it caused this whole southern area of Belgium and all that south of Holland to be taken over strongly by the the Catholics and this caused a huge migration of the Flemish and to Holland and that caused then this whole people group in Holland and Which led to us some of these divisions. I think that perhaps we have here You can see my little map on page three. There's classically Frisia the very upper end there and And some of those things the Frisians the language Culture of most of the people who lived in the area now known as Holland were originally Frisian They was sparsely populated area known as West Friesland I guess one of the districts now as Frankish settlements progressed the Frisians migrated away or were absorbed and the area quickly became Dutch and now the Flemish like I just said Or Dutch speaking inhabitants of Belgium where they are mostly found in the northern regions of Flanders They are one of the two principal cultural linguistic groups of Belgium and so That's the different people group Flemish Mennonites This is from the Mennonite encyclopedia in order to escape from the most oppressive persecution had Immigrated or fled from Belgium and especially from Flanders hence They were usually called Flemish to the Netherlands many of them settled in the Dutch province of Friesland and the Dutch Encyclopedia gives these cultural difference Often the Friesians were oftentimes Offended excuse me often the Friesians were offended by the Flemish way of living and dressing and the letter resented the greater the later resented Excuse me Sorry, I have a little mess up there. They were they were offended by okay Let's scratch that the the area here in in the the Belgium was a more of a to-do area They were more rich. They were more a well-to-do area the bourgeois of This area was more in the southern the the Friesians were more the farmers They're simpletons and that type of thing and there seemed to be some different cultural Differences that even the Mennonite encyclopedia talk about the Flemish were actually fine Dressers the Belgian people were were fancy dressers, and they like fancy food and fancy dress, and it says that the Friesians Had though inside their house some of the things that came out in the dispute their furnishings their linens and things like that were Were spoken of as being fancy to them and that caused some offenses back and forth and again Just some of those little little differences there So as given to our rules, I'm going to try to go through here and look at some of these things Here's our first couple of rules. Oh our first one was to have salt within yourself and peace with one another rule number one Have a strong world changing conviction without being judgmental rule number one have a strong world changing convictions Without being judgmental, but now we're mixing two cultures together rule number two When different cultures Form into a church all must be willing to bend and give up as many of their own cultural sins and weaknesses This is my take on it If there's different ways to look at this either you can say when you come into an area you should not you should just accept the culture of the area or You should say that the church is there to represent a Christian culture in their area. I have a scripture that I gave you I Have a scripture that I think applies When Paul was speaking to Titus and they were wondering how to Evangelize into the Cretans. He gives us this passage in Titus chapter 1 verse 12 speaking of the cultural Behaviors of the Cretans he says this if you remember this shocking verse in the Bible He says of one of themselves even a prophet of their own said this is Paul speaking The Cretans are always liars evil beast slow bellies And he says this witness is true So that's the way Cretans are he's telling you they're they're evil beasts. They're slow bellies and they're passionate people They're always liars. And so what do you do with the culture? That's like that Well, you have to do you have to say well, you got to understand their culture and bend their culture, you know Let them be no Paul says This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply that they may be sound in the faith And so we do have cultural weaknesses. We all do I think that the scriptural thing to do and I'll just throw this out and you can differ with me is for us to not make excuses for each of our cultural weaknesses, but be able to let our different cultures help each other to see those weaknesses and be able to lay those down and so that we can have a Unified body together, but That was the way it was done Here and I think some of these cultural differences weren't able to to look at that But okay turn the page Before we touch this period now, I Want you to understand like I said just a minute ago when you talk about history wars or churches or that type that type of? thing you get a wrong added idea of what the people were like at that time and I want you to look over the martyrs that I just gave you just a quick sampling up. I Want you to look at that and I want you to understand something from this period Then all of this From I don't know. Well, yeah about from here to here all of this and the martyrs mirror Happened during this time period so let's keep that in mind as we look at some of these these debates and fights that These were a very passionate people that were taking the the Word of God and trying to live it out in there in their different places and and So, you know think about that. Here's the I just have this burning of this lady in Daventer in 1544 the burning of six brothers in 1549 here this George Swift who started to be a he was a mayor who Who became a a Christian brother and he was he was killed in 1558 and we have a burning of Hendricks Imkins and who it was a miraculous thing where they saw these fire and things Glowing and that type of thing in 1562 and even as late as 1572 we see this burning of all these brothers and sisters there for their faith and so I want you to keep that in mind as we go through that uh, that there were the While the elders were having these meetings the brothers and sisters were Living faithfully for Christ in many places all around this area number three question the questions You know, I think this is very important. And so I'm not repeat it, but I'm gonna say it here at the beginning when you begin to go into a questioning mode You tend to enter Somebody's world somebody's worldview and you have to be very careful with that I noticed the example of Jesus being very important in this that he would often just throw back the question I don't think he was just trying to be smart I don't believe our Lord would have done that But I don't think he would allow himself to enter in a lot of the debates because he knew by walking into that debate You enter into their worldview and I'm afraid that's what happened here several times Another example, I'll just give you before I start mentioning some of these I remember once I was in a library and I saw a life magazine there and it was called a hand pen in the hand Of God it was an interview with Mother Teresa from the 1960s and I picked it caught my attention I picked it up and there was something Never mind what you think of Mother Teresa, but there was something in there was very impressive during the 1960s. The Roman Catholics were really Trying to say that. Hey, we're gonna finally have We're gonna finally have women ordination and so, you know the the liberal women liberation movement and people were starting to get excited and and Starting to to want to stand and said surely we're gonna start to have women priests And so this interviewer was going to Mother Teresa and trying to get her into a debate on women's lip, you know Well Mother Teresa he the interviewer saying you are a leader of women You know trying to notice the frame being formed and you know You are you you obviously you you go to the heads of state you have all those things that you say, you know Nowadays in the Roman Catholic Church is a big debate on should should Roman Catholics Have women priests and so since you're a leader of women, I'm wondering Mother Teresa. How do you feel? Her answer was beautiful. She simply said I Don't think that way Wow. I Don't think that way and she questioned the question and when we get into these theological debates You'll find yourself sometimes and you'll experience this you'll be in the middle of it and you realize you're so deep that somehow We're getting the right answer to the wrong questions Somehow we need to back up and I think sometimes these brothers should have done that Question the question is as number three be sure to question the question Rule number four understand that passionate people Do passionate things You want to be in an on-fire? Amen brother church, then you're gonna have a man on fire brother people who do Passionate things and that goes with the territory you want to be in a dead church. Guess what? You're probably not gonna have church splits. So that's no excuse for church splits. Don't get me wrong But it does go with the territory. I appreciate this quote from from Cornelius Dick in his midnight history he says in church matured in church maturity Decisions have to be made and boundaries have to be discussed and then Cornelius Dick says we have already seen how extreme positions arose with David Joris beliefs and prophecy and Adam pastors tendency towards Unitarianism we talked about him yesterday this they had to deal with those things, right? Could they be in the same community with these people who had that big of variances answer? No, I was over the top right? Could you be in the same church with with a giant a jan van Leiden? No, the somewhere you needed to draw some lines, right? So okay, you have to do that. He's giving you that and How these movements were rejected by the main body under minnows in leadership, but where do you stop? When you begin to separate from those with whom you disagree Much of the history of the Mennonites in the Netherlands from 1555 to 1650 show that there was no clear and simple answer to this question Where do you stop? Intrinsic to Anabaptist theology, and I think it's very important that it is is the concept of community and brotherhood Intrinsic to that is there and so our understanding of coming together and being a people called out of this world called into a church It makes us ask the question. Well, what is it like to be this family? What is it like to be this city in the kingdom of God? It is different than the invisible view of the church which the evangelicals propagate And so it's going to have some challenges and so I want us to hear some of these challenges But nevertheless, I do believe that the concept of the brotherhood the family the city in the kingdom of God the community understanding is very Solid in any kind of representation of of Anabaptist theology and from the extreme views. I've read things from very liberal Scholars or writers who would still hold to this view even in their own right in their own way It's an important concept in early Anabaptist this early Anabaptist issues Okay So now we've learned some of the difference between the Frisians and the Flemish and talked about those things And so let's go now to passion understand that passionate people do passionate things. Let's get into the first the first biggie Cornelius Nick says Those people who were willing to face death for their faith were also ready to break fellowship with brothers or sisters if they thought them wrong right You've been in a first-generation church where everybody there is either left one church or another church. That's all I've ever been in Yeah, it happens that way, you know So that happens. Okay. All right. Here's the story a man by the name of Saywin Rutgers, you don't have to remember his name just remember this poor guy did something wrong in his church that got his minister upset with him and he Ended up being called to be excommunicated His he was he went to the famous Church of Emden which if you remember right at the very tip of Holland Getting right into Germany way up north There is Emden which was a big area of debates and they had debates there with the reformers and that one time There was a hundred and twenty four sessions of a debate with the reformers up in this area It's a big debating area, but it was also the place where Leonard Bowens was from you remember him from yesterday? He was that guy who went and baptized over 10,000 people the the preacher who was everywhere Well, he was there and he started to say He did something wrong history did not let us know what he did wrong but he also said we're gonna ban him and But the thing is we want his wife To ban him as well If you're gonna shun somebody I don't want this man and wife thing living together So I think she should leave the house and go away What do you think? If you're gonna shun she's a Christian All right. She's a Christian. She's a member of the church even but now he's not well, where is the family? What did Jesus say here? My brother's my sister or you know, my He does will of my father my brother and my sister my mother. So the issue was there. What do you do? What do you think what do you think does she move out of house and home Go live in the pastor's, you know, we'll put a little Dowdy house over here for and let her you know live there or do they try to work this out of the house What do you do with this situation? You separate them Okay Okay, all right So Jacob separate him. Oh Okay, Jacob says you put a throw a house on him. That's the household. Okay, well, he's not He's he's been turned over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh and she's gonna just be having tea with him. Oh Lucas brings up the scripture And wife it says there right? The point is to bring him back to the church The whole point of shunning you mean is for reconciliation good. So where you going with that? Oh Very good How can you be in 1st Corinthians chapter 6 7, excuse me 1st Corinthians chapter 7? How could you win him without a word if you're not living with them? Very good. Very good All right. So these were the things they were dealing with and it kind of went from bad to worse He started saying things about it and they finally end up writing a letter of middle Simon's middle Simon said let's be gentle with this situation and Leonard Bowen said no, uh-uh. We're gonna have this shunning the church said no the whole church got in on this and and everybody started to get a little upset and And the whole thing led to kind of a big split and it got worse and he got worse and he got worse Well, they end up getting Dirk Phillips. Remember him from yesterday Dirk Phillips in on it and he's very much of kind of a dogmatist a You know, he talks about these things very much and he got called in on the thing as well well Things then kind of got worse and worse they end up calling a meeting to discuss this matter Okay, we're gonna I'm afraid we're gonna have to work this thing out. It's gotten big. So they called a little meeting together and Friesland in 1557 and they decided and now Leonard Bowen's and Dirk Phillips had brought mental Simon's to his side. And so finally they said that's it We're gonna make a rule for all of our churches that you have to kick him out She's got to leave. She's got to leave the home. And so the first biggie was the idea. She's out of there Whoo, some of the brothers here at the church were like, I don't think so and they were very concerned and so this started to cause a division and But minnow and Dirk and some of those brothers didn't like their they we decided the church has decided We need to go with this now and it got I'm afraid it got worse and number rule number five is Name-calling is not good in the middle of a church dispute name-calling is not good Balance, unfortunately immediately calls the people that broke off. I didn't say that these people were so upset about it said We're not gonna fellowship with you and balance immediately started calling them quote the garbage wagon That's not good name-calling number five rule number five is not good. All right, it got worse Rule number six and your middle of a big church dispute like this stop take a deep breath and don't put fuel to the fire All right, you knew things were gonna go bad and it's gonna get worse and this it got worse in The spring of 1557 minnow Simons. Okay, they met there and then after that they had another meeting where they met down in the city of Strasbourg and people from all over Germany Southern Germany and particularly northern Germany Which is where the fellowship here was met to discuss what they were going to do about it Two of the brothers simple brothers from a little town of Neuchatn Glaubach and in certain areas of northern Germany started sending letters to say I don't think this is right Conscience is against this as a matter of fact, I would have rather be excommunicated than do something like this I'm really think this is a bad idea Interestingly enough. It's Neuchatn Glaubach, which I'd of course had no idea Where I got converted way up there in North Germany when my wife and I decided to kneel and give our lives totally to Christ Little did I know that was a little town of Neuchatn Glaubach Anyway in this little town there They're sending in different mainly North Germans and different people are sending that and they send a letter to minnow saying Hey, can we talk about this? I I don't think this is a good thing this decision that you have made minnow He wrote a letter. He wrote a matter of fact a little work on the thorough explanation and account of excommunication They went back and forth. They told minnow in his letter that they would rather be excommunicated Excommunicated himself and go along with his extreme and unchristlike way of putting people out of the Lord's commune number seven Rule, there's no situation bad enough that you can't make it worse Remember we talked about in the days before You think you think that's as bad as you can get it can get worse minnow then wrote a reply and he wrote a Reply and the name of the reply was called a thorough answer full of instruction and counsel tis to zealous and Lambert's those were the guys who were complaining undeserved and unjust accusation their slander and bitter name-calling about our position which is as we believe the true teaching of the Holy Apostles in regard to excommunication and shunning soon after Dirk Phillips remember him Leonhard bowens the big evangelist traveled south along the Rhine through colon through mission globock through south to The North Germany and all these different areas with unfortunately with a letter Saying that they were excommunicating all of these churches who disagree with them And Particularly that would be in the North German churches Tacitly I tried to find last night the exact words and see did it include the Swiss brethren and Peter Hoover in his book Which I where I got some of that story Says the all the North Germans and the Swiss brethren and I he did specifically mention the North Germans But I don't know if he's he specifically mentioned that the the Swiss brethren. I don't know if you know brother Steve But it was at least tacitly if you disagree with this view you're You're out and that's that's unfortunate And that was one of the first biggies of the splits of the of the people of the people up there All right So they go now and the next the next rule is Don't ever let your group become a clique You know how we talked about there being these different cultures But what we just saw up here, maybe couldn't really be called a culture probably a lot of these were Friesians But now we have the issue These Flemish are starting to pour in from the persecuted area of Belgium And they're starting to come in to the church, and there is a you got to know what to do with them well The Dutch Church now had been a little bit organized there in In Holland such a bad there in Holland they ended up With four of the main churches having a bit of a conference almost they got together And they were able to decide help the poor together decide Ordinations together one ordained person could go to the other things and and they had this little conference But for some reason, I don't know why the history books don't tell us they kept this little Agreement that they had between these four people a secret a secret They had this little we don't like a you know mysterious secret, but like it wasn't no They didn't they didn't have a very clear thing. That was that was talked about and it was known and so Which leads us to our next rule? Secret stuff usually causes problems you know sometimes in our in our churches and and I've experienced this probably more than some of you more established churches, but It seems more spiritual when something's not defined Even in our ministries and our brotherhoods and our seems like that we think well to define it seems so rigid And there's some truth to that, but one of the things also though is that when you can define something you can scrutinize it You can say well, that's wrong. That's wrong I have a concern about that, but if you just keep it kind of gray where his authority line is is he? Over me an authority or is he not it and some of those things begin to cause bigger problems later on when they're not clearly Spoken up it seems. That's the kind of thing that was going here and secret stuff Usually causes problems. This is what happened so the Flemish started coming in their churches were growing and you know they started getting a little congregation here and So just like of course naturally they decide they want to ordain their minister, but these brothers here these Friesian brothers are like Flemish Minister I Mean I mean where is he where is where is he at on his clothes and his eating remember? They were kind of worldly with those things. I mean I don't I don't know and some of this hesitation was sensed by the Flemish brothers And they started to get a little offended with this probably naturally so and so the Flemish congregation felt that they had been Discriminated against and then when even with this minister when they said okay, we want to get minister They were these brothers were hesitating on it. Well. Let's think about it. I don't know let's see and suddenly They're like what's going on. I start to get word of this little secret group, and I said Why are we not part of this group and next thing you know what you got a downright offense and the Flemish brothers are saying Okay What's going on here? I mean we're offended. Why are you not including us? I mean, what do you want from us, and that's the kind of thing that started to happen Naturally the Flemish brothers got offended and it started to be a little bit of a split I mean at least in spirit. You know so they called in help which is I agree I believe the right thing to do they called in help they called in help And I'm sure this was a Flemish minister, and he got called in and so they brought in a couple ministers And they said okay, let's look at it. They talked to everybody you know and had these meetings I don't know if you've been part of these type of meetings, and and you know they looked at everything They said okay, we have we have the idea. We know what's wrong. All right. We know what's wrong So let's call a reconciliation a wreck a reconciliation meeting and here's what they did True story you can't make this stuff up all right They they brought them in and they brought all the brothers in the Friesian brothers and the Flemish brothers So I know it gets kind of confusing who are the Friesians which one are they? They're the ones from where? The north good the Friesians are the the north ones the ones that a little more established and the Flemish are the new Guys in who are now offended so they brought him in yes, sir Yeah, exactly. Yes. Yeah, I'll be part of that the That came out of the rubble of the Melchorites and all that now these are Amen brothers You know that are trying to establish their churches, so he said okay? Let's bring in all the ministers of the Friesians and the Flemish and here's what we're gonna do We're gonna first have you Friesian brothers kneel down and confess and Bow down here and confess the wrong that you had done amen right so the you know the the Friesian brothers kneeled down and they confessed what they had done We were wrong and our attitudes and whatever and then they brought him back up Now he brought the Flemish brothers in okay now We're gonna bring the Flemish brothers in you come in and you kneel down so the Flemish brothers kneel down This is good. We're getting reconciliation. Amen, so they're starting to you admit the things they're wrong and now these guys Yeah, yeah, yeah, you got this media when you're a moderator and these type of things. It's a huge role huge role You better be praying so these Flemish brothers are down there, and they said now wait don't get up yet I Want the Friesian brothers to lift you up because your sin was worse than theirs ouch Believe it or not some of the Flemish brothers did it most of them got offended it got worse and worse they tried to apologize afterwards next thing you know what the rift was there and it was solid and This division between those two has seemed to never recover from that little scene They carried it into Holland with a northern Holland they carried into Russia with them even into Canada the book says that some of these divisions still Remained to the day of the differences that that were part of that and so rule number ten When you're making up don't say that your sin is worse than mine And you laugh at that, but you know I don't know I can't tell you how many apologies I've heard and how many tempting I've been done where you you want to say you're sorry and say but Your fault or you wrote you're wrong, too And remember how we talked about our split with it with the Amish the Mennonites and how Jacob kept apologizing He only only kept apologizing, but they said but You did do that wrong. You can't Especially you can't say your sin was worse than mine. It's not an apology so Dying to ourselves is a rule that we can learn from that. It's kind of like marriage, okay? If you think in a marriage that you can meet halfway 50% you and 50% you and have a harmonious marriage You're wrong, okay? it's got to be a hundred percent a hundred percent deaths to yourself to have harmony and To have the beautiful thing that God wants us to have and so if you start turfing You know your turf and these kind of disputes and say you come this far you come that far you did this I did that You're gonna end up with something like this, and it's not pretty so again this rule Is don't think that your sins are are worse than than mine some brother I was talking to just recently And he was talking about church splits and things and he said he was meditating on the parable that Jesus gave of the The log in your own eye and the moat in the or the speck and your brothers he said you know the way I he said I appreciate this is the way I look at that is that What you see is that when you look into a conflict that your sins your problems your mistakes? you're part of the conflict seems so big in Comparison to the little thing that your brother did that that's the kind of thing that brings reconciliation but if we start focusing on his and not on ours, then you're going to end up like this and some of the Ramifications that can be huge. Yes, sir. Oh, thank you Thank you very much all right Thank you, so it's an important thing and I think and it comes to apologies They're very good, and we got to make sure we do them and we mean them Okay Interestingly enough though. There's something more and behind the scenes of what's going on here They're at the split this time Dirk Phillips and Leonardo Bowens the big evangelist and Dirk the the dogma guy They end up on different sides of the debate and there's a little bit of history. That's interesting Leonardo Bowen was actually Disciplined by Dirk Phillips years before this he that guy who were all around of the ministering baptized 10,000 people will somehow His life character towards the later part of his life started being brought into To suspect they said he drinks too much. He he's to trying to grab power after minnow had died And so they actually tried to silence him for a while and ended up with a big difficult there now that still comes to here And those two end up on different camps Those two end up in different camps. And so it makes me wonder about rule number 11 Old unresolved differences between ministers must be dealt with or that will grow into huge mistakes later sometimes we just want to go on but if you're harboring these things and the responsibility of a minister of God and And having these unresolved differences is huge and to see what that can cause and what can do to a congregation to a country to a nation to a world It would seem that there is some of that perhaps going on in this I Have here that during the division Dirk went with the Flemish Side even though he was Friesian by birth and the two sides shunned and banned each other for many years And by this point the the whole Flemish Friesian thing it really had nothing to do with where you're from it was just became a title a Party line of whether you're a Friesian or a Flemish because here you had Flemish Friesians and free Friesian Flemish And it didn't really matter who they were and so That's kind of a sad story there, but that's that's what happened So unresolved differences between ministers must be dealt with or it will grow into larger mistakes later Okay, the next thing I have here and we'll take a break a house divided itself cannot stand Especially when you cheat on the deed to buy the house, so take a break and we'll come back and we'll pick up the next It can be part it can be partakers of that Fascinating yeah, that's good. I appreciate you and Bring in these types of thing and and I will say this and I said that just before we started I don't maybe maybe you weren't out all in the room when you typically read these stories The way it's usually presented is that a bunch of stick-in-the-muds kept holding on to things to finally we were liberated out of all that strictness and to Liberation and then I encyclopedia kind of gives that when it talks about Dirk Phillips when it talks about these days of minnow when it talks about some of these debates usually the liberal if I can use that term is always on the side of the Hero, and but if you look deeper into some of the issues like what brother Stephen Russell has given us right here Just now is it? There's some serious concerns that these aren't always just easy Little things that somebody was just a stick-in-the-mud that they they had true Pastoral concerns that they were trying to work out and when you see where the Church of Holland ended up The words which we're gonna go tomorrow we end up from we're gonna start from the golden era so called and to Russia We're gonna see well somewhere along the line. They should have stopped and stopped progressing And so it's yeah, it's a good point. Thank you brother for sharing that Yeah, amen, so let's go in now just another split and this one we see some unfortunate things that that happen and The The point that I'm gonna bring out here Is that a lack of integrity number rule number 12 is that the lack of integrity in an elder can lead to effects much? Greater than just his life the life of the minister that the the integrity of our ministers the integrity of a minister has to be very clear because When he messes up he doesn't just mess up. He messes up and affects a lot of people I Said a house divided itself cannot stand especially when you cheat on the deed all right as the Flemish those brothers that now are trying to regather and regroup and all that start wanting to to Go about their life. They decide they want to buy themselves a church building it. This is kind of silly So they bought himself this church building or they wanted to buy themselves this church building But some bad things happen in the buying of this church building the elder by the name of Thomas mentions And was entrusted with the church money and and he himself Being a good Midnight it was happy to find a bargain. It says honey. It's like midnight encyclopedia, so a Poor man in the city. He found a poor man city was actually a drunkard Who was having to be forced to sell his place because of bankruptcy and so he kind of worked out this little deal He said all right And he had to sell his house to the highest bidder, and he was forced to do this But this drunkard knew this minister, so they worked out a little deal. He said hey all right. We'll do this I'll make a receipt that says and he's the drunkard was being nice. I'll do a receipt that says the house cost 800 But Florence or whatever they call it there and But I'll sell it to you for 700, but you know I don't want anybody to overbid us and it's kind of relationship It's your we're friends right all right, and he moved on so the the minister was happy He went back and told the congregation the congregation was very upset about this and said you did what you mean you? You Entered into this deal with somebody forced to bankruptcy with a drunk and then had a false receipt And that's what we're gonna make for our church building They weren't happy at all and so This ended up causing a division the brother actually did Say the elder said he was sorry He said I I would rather pay for this house 50 times Then there are how many times and then have it cause a split, but still the church said no We're gonna cause we're gonna continue with this division, and I mean excuse me We're gonna continue to get to bring you out And we said we don't think you're you're right to be an elder anymore and so out with you You can stay in the church, but you're no longer fit to be a minister well kind of in this area He was one of the more conservative brothers in the church and had in his area in his churches And area that the the influence in his church the more conservative brothers were on his side And so even though this was the issue the conservative brothers left with him and it caused another split between this and it began to be groups called the house buying and the contra house buying nights that were now whether depending on whose sides you were on and And that's pretty sad, and I wonder this and again. I'm speculating a lot, please understand remember what I said We were talking about splits in the early church When you want to beat a dog it's easy to find a stick And I wonder so he happens to be this guy who is Standing for conservative values and these types of things in the church now. They fuck so my guess I'm speculating I'm reading a lot in history, but I'm reading from my own personal experience He's speaking out events against things in the church, and you know and suddenly these guys are You know not happy with all him and now finally he does something wrong, and he's out You just got to be careful with that kind of a thing. I wonder again. That's that's Imagining a lot, but as I look into the history. I'm trying to read into some stories that may maybe we be able to to hear from and so he needed to be silenced they put him out there ended up with a split and That's the way it is, and that's the way it went so Excuse me. You drink a wine All that shot gets me So the Flemish were divided into the house buying and the contra house buying groups and eventually the contra house buying groups began began to be known as the young or the soft Flemish and the house buying groups were the more conservative ones and This ended up going further and further So again that rule was lack of integrity and an elder can lead to effects much more than just the life of the minister, okay? So the weeds grow you see I have a little picture of a dandelion. They're growing now as The Anabaptists of the Netherlands turned their energies to enforcing their authority in and different things here Things began to get worse and worse and the splits began to to grow more and more and this is where I asked the question of Coming to the thing of at what point do you call for? Slow down in these things and say let's start questioning the question. I just threw up some things these are my thoughts I please stop me as I go rambling on a million miles an hour if you have a Challenging thought or hey, what about this and these types of things? This is this is stuff. We all deal with right? Unfortunately, yeah All right, I asked the question How many of these splits were are over things like not keeping the sermon on the Mount? How many conferences took out? Matthew 25 and excommunicated people who weren't visiting the sick and visiting the poor and those sorts of things the answer is zero And so as I've harped on all the five weeks as the teachings of Christ our Center we do and I admit we do as communities of people have to deal with issues that come up every generation Is going to have things that we have to deal with but remember mother Teresa's answer Somewhere along the line you sometimes have to say I don't think that way and get back To the center and again, just be careful. I think it's a lesson for us to to be able to to go go further again I look at even much more than mother Teresa Jesus example. Let me ask you a question And and being able to not fall into frames that somehow force us to make decisions that that's Hurting us. All right number 13 if talks on unity are making even more splits than perhaps something something is wrong somewhere We again, like I said, and I believe this is New Testament, I think it's very important we Believe in the concept of the kingdom of God being a community of people, right? I've talked about that. We saw that through different things And so in that in that idea of being a community of people again I've said this earlier but we have to be able to work some of these things out and we have to be able to find those boundaries and Where to put an end to those boundaries is difficult But if you're noticing as you keep drawing those boundaries and it just keeps getting worse and getting worse and getting worse and getting worse Maybe it's time to re-evaluate that you've got off a balance. I just threw out here again. I took this from Hoover's book and Just I'm not going to go through any of these in detail, but just how they started to split and split and split In 1589 the Frisians divided as we saw there the hard Frisians and the slack Frisians the hard Frisians who consider themselves the only Church of Christ soon divided and the dozens of the tiny groups and subgroups Just jump in there real quick, too. I Do think we're in a different age and there's a good side and bad side of this that that one Statement that I just said they're thinking they were the only true Church of God. I Don't really hear that amongst our people I don't hear that amongst the Amish. I don't hear that amongst Hutterites. I don't hear that amongst that seems to be out of fashion today Now that's very good. I think some of these splits were well, what's the true Church of God? And so it was became very important. The other bad side of that is I I'm just I wonder though Have we become so? tolerant in our understanding that perhaps We're not drawing clear enough lines I just say because I don't hear that spirit in us at all, which I'm very thankful for it. Don't get me wrong but I also wonder sometimes have we just grown very weak and and tolerant ever in Revelation Jesus did rebuke one of the churches because they tolerated the teachings of Jezebel Tolerance and the wrong thing is rebuked by Jesus And so sometimes it takes a no you who teach the teachings of Jezebel have to leave was what Jesus a story for us was alright, so He goes on I hear Hoover goes on some of the slack Friesians United with these other groups the water lender the Mennonites and soon joined the Anabaptist congregations in the lower rind and and one thing broke up to another broke up to another and broke up to another and each one Delivered to Satan the other groups and they ended up With these rebukes back and forth for years and that was that was too bad And here I have a little chart this is from your cup-and-the-cross book from Martin and I thought it was interesting. He did a nice graph. I love his maps and his graphs in there and Here again just gives you some of the main groups the divisions Those who by the way those who first didn't go to that very first split became the waterlanders I should certainly have mentioned that They become one of the main groups the water landers because of the area there and They were the first ones that split up over this shunning issue and then the different groups that have formed here the Friesians the Flemish this the Young Friesians the old Friesians a mild the old the set and then they try to come together I'm going to get to some of these unifications with the Different ones and finally we we get to different splits, but we see this is the spirit of what's going on in that area I do want to just throw this in now before we go to this next section I Think it's significant, and I'm gonna ask you why I don't know why I wouldn't ask you why the Swiss Brethren The Hutterites Moravians they had their issues you'd have people break off, but until 1693 For over 150 years you really had not a lot of this Why what do you think There was no major divisions until 1693 with the Amish the Mennonites the Hutterites had their issues some people broke off But it was never a split like this and and these people seem to have carried their very tight sense of community But yet it didn't fraction didn't just fall apart into all this sort of splitting Dale Okay, good point. What do you think? What certainly they weren't a evangelic They didn't have that forward mission as much as the Hutterites did in the Moravian Anabaptists did and that is one of my my thoughts And I'll just throw this out. I wonder again If your focus even though you need to deal with these things, but if your focus becomes so much on maintenance That all your attention goes to that does it tend to create these things I think you do need to deal with these things but deal with these things with a flaming purpose That's evangelizing and spreading that kingdom to the world Then you then it comes out. I think it looks differently and I was one of the things I was wondering brother Dale was that very thing is that you hear a lot of those talks the concept of the pure church Which I believe in this the visible church We're supposed to be a separated people Paul says in 2nd Corinthians chapter 6 and 7 that that's very much important Part important part of the promises of God. He wants us to come out from among them and be separate That's a teaching of of the the scriptures But that's all worth the purpose going somewhere and that is one of the thoughts that I that I had any other thoughts Good Jacob So you're so even unity as a goal is a wrong goal and it's gonna end up causing split good point Was it Bonhoeffer that said those who focus on community or can be the ones that destroy community? That this desire for we're going to be unified and do you like almond did do you agree to this article or not? You know and having to have that clarity on the unity and when that begins to be a focus That could be an issue, yeah good any other thoughts a Leadership more of a leadership Control model instead of a brotherhood model I've heard that said between the difference between the Dutch and the the Swiss Brethren and it does seem to come out in Minnow's teachings and versus the Swiss Brethren teaching. Yeah You seen that Steve? with Some of the some of the differences there Yeah, it's a good point it's a Part of a big part of it It is yeah, amen, that's good I go into this next I'm gonna hit this point a little bit this next To the point of ridiculousness this one famous minister here And it comes to the rule number 14 if you think you're the only one in the world, that's right You're probably wrong And this brother or whatever Jan van oop horn horn. However, you say that then became a a a a Minister who left persecution he fled persecution and he was doing everything he could there was a unity that was starting to happen He did what he could to stop it. He got home to his congregation And they were upset that he was preventing this unity He upset with them and end up excommunicating everybody else in the entire congregation Except his self and his wife and family and that was all that was left in his one true Church was just us for no more and that began to be the extreme of Splitting that I took there right straight from the midnight encyclopedia. So it's This sort of splitting spirit also one of the things that I brought up I wanted to bring up is that that that idea of the seeds, you know Once you do start splitting it does seem to grow. I mean, I know how it is in Lancaster County. I Mean, unfortunately, you can find every little flavor of what you would want. I don't like that. I'll take that I know what a church that has standards, but no homeschooling, but yet has and I like veils But no, I want ones that are just white not black and let me see it You know, you can go through the whole thing and it's sad That's why I appreciate that story We applauded for in the Hutterites where they were about to split up and and with Andreas works turned around and said look We're the only guys out here. Can't we at least get along and they finally called back the division and came back together. I Think we need to see ourselves more in that way and work together instead of against each other and not have this shopping So once you start it, it begins to be it came to it continues to get going But here's something though I want to challenge some of the thought a little bit on the the persecuted church concept Look at what I brought down there One of the things we do always say and I think that it's certainly not it's nothing compared or it's it's significant compared to what the Hutterites particularly Moravian Anabaptists were dealing with but 15 Stopped saying that persecution will solve our unity problems. I forgot for you there unity problems Now look at the list of just martyrs that I threw up there the beheading of this brother in Cologne in 1565 Cologne was right down the road from Emden, which they had the big debate there The burning of these different all these people in Antwerp Antwerp was the main area there in Belgium Another burning of Jacob Dirks in 1568 and Antwerp and even the very famous and celebrated story of Dirk Willems Was in 1569 in aspirin, which would have been an area Coming out of the the northern area and coming back closer to Germany. And so during this time There was still a lot of persecution going on There were still people getting killed and then that leads us to number 16 rule number 16 Church problems are no excuse to stop living the faith You hear that Church problems are no excuse to stop living the faith Dirk Willems. I'm sure heard about these splits I'm sure their family talked about in their homes when they were dealing it, but somehow it didn't make him just go I forget it. I I'm just gonna I'm just gonna go and you know go fishing or something You know, he still had a very passionate Desire to follow Christ even in the in the midst of all this and And so I think we can get into a habit sometimes and you hear it commonly. Oh, well, you know Persecution we wouldn't have this kind of thing Let's see the show here that that they actually did have these kind of things, but it's not an excuse It also is good for us to see again. I wanted to bring it up. I Mean, those are just some of the pictures that I found but all of this All of these martyrs We're from this time period or it's not the beginning part with New Testament and all that but you know Where I mean there was some of these are in Hutterites and some are Swiss brother but a lot of these were from this time period and so it's no excuse to Just because your church is having difficulty to hang up your faith on the shelf and say well I'm not gonna I'm not gonna do these things. So I just wanted to leave that as a rule that we can learn All right now Good Yeah Yeah, it's a good question. I guess we get discouraged and that type of thing and sometimes we want an excuse I I don't know, you know You're really your hearts out in the world anyway and you find you can excuse it on your your elders splitting up and so then you can run out there and I you know, I don't know It's good Yeah, it's good, yeah, it's good That's good, remember John the Baptist and Jesus and they said I mean the man who said behold the Lamb of God Behold him it takes the sins of the world now says Don't ask him is that him father and what did Jesus say remember? And then he said Blessed is he who is not offended in me It's the word of snare scandalous. Oh and Greek. It's not snared by these things of life. Blessed. He is not offended He's not scandalized in this world It's important. I don't have 10 minutes. I got to wrap this up All right, things go on they end up having some some different Attempts of unifying and Some of the unification was good. They had some efforts that failed The Waterlanders had broken off in one place and they had come back with met with some of the groups that had broke off at Different times and they started to get together the more conservative ones started to get together and each one had areas where they were trying to To come in and help out each other One of those ones that were important was that the concept of clones in north Western Germany Cologne were a lot of the high Germans. That's the high area of Germany and the Friesians Got together and laid out some things and one of the things they did lay out Which is as important kind of affects the later churches There is they felt it was a mistake to make members shun their marriage partners And this of course began to separate their thinking from the more conservative brothers in the area Particularly when the Swiss brethren and the Amish start coming up in this area right here after this time 1700s Then Hans de rice, I don't have time to go into a full detail of him. He was a member see the picture I have of him. He was a start to be a Reformed minister, but he came on to the view of non-resistance. And so he started to try to He came into the Mennonite world and when he saw the division He really wanted to bring unity and so he was he was helpful to bring unity He wanted those different groups to join with the with this Concept of Cologne they started calling themselves the satisfied brother or the pacified brother the Reconciled brothers trying to get a true unity one of those people who stood against that was a very good writer and I appreciate his writing was Peter Jentz a twist and He he was one of the more conservative ones who felt that the kind of compromises they were making in this unity Was something that he couldn't agree with and he encouraged people not to join this unity and so he became with the other people they didn't want to join these different groups and some people joined one called separated brothers some then became this satisfied or reconciled brothers and somewhere in between and became the standstillers Because they wouldn't choose a side. It's interesting each of them excommunicated them and both of them excommunicated the standstillers because they wouldn't join either one and that's too bad, but that's the kind of things that That when that went through another thing that happened, which was I think a good Union Was they started the Flemish both the old and the soft started to have wanted to unified and even some of the water landers Which again came from the very beginning there joined a union and they met in the little town of door Trek Holland in 1632 I think you know what's coming right and they were able to get out the door Trek confession of faith and This confession began to be was very well received Not so much then even but as it is more so today The the as as these as these unity started to go The some of the differences were still in the air One of like for instance for instance the one of the problems that Peter Janice a twist was complaining about he was still holding very strong to middle Simon's view of the celestial flesh Doctrines and so some of those more conservative brothers were still holding on to this and so some of those issues were still in the air between these divisions But I think again one of those moments that I love in church history the door trick confession Were able to question the question They were able to question the question and now I'll read to you from article 4 talking about the incarnation. It's on page 18 This is article 4 and the door trick confession And here is where I think it's very hard to do in churches We're especially when you go to in a creedal kind of way is to take a step back and say me I don't know they said this article 4 says about the this whole issue But as to how and in what matter matter excuse me, but as to how in what manner this precious body was prepared and how the word became flesh and he himself Man is in regard to this we content ourselves with the statements pertaining to this matter Which the worthy evangelists have left us in their accounts In other words, let's just leave what the scriptures say According to which we confess with all the Saints that he is the son of the Living God in whom also in whom alone consists all our hope consolation redemption and salvation Which we neither may nor may seek in any other so they said we don't know I think that deserves a round applause. Let's hear it for the Georgia confession who? Finally was able to come to that and that that that did well That statement did of course Have some weight there. It gets into a little trouble in 1693 when Jacob Alman was pushing some of these articles Does then get received and by all the both the Mennonites and the Amish in America in? 1725 all right, and So just bring us us to the last little split here in our paper is the war of the Lamb and rule number 18 was When someone wants to change everything Sometimes there are some dangerous theologies underneath the surface I Come out a little different on the war of the Lamb thing that even Hoover does in his book and some of that when I read this some of the details and some of the things that seems like we have a classic example here of the stress of the Anabaptist worldview Melting and mending between the evangelical views and how do you draw those lines? and then the conservatives grabbing a part of something from the Evangelicals and and the other vice versa and it gets to be a big mess One of the things that really agrees me sometimes is that when I hear conservative Anabaptists like some of your backgrounds here You know conservative Beachy conservative Mennonites and some of that who they'll defend their faith, but they'll be using all this evangelical talk And they get themselves trapped a lot of time I believe the Anabaptists have some significant and particularly and being followers of Christ and become being fundamentalist who just happened to Have head coverings and non-resistant is not anabaptism I see some of that here now as we grow to this last split that I'm going to mention in the war of the Lambs I only have a minute. So I'm just going to give you a quick summary Some of the biggest players are this Galenus Abrahams, I'm saying his name right and he was a very talented minister He started to he got trained and then he he he's for a while he was in a church with the standstillers and Who didn't become Flemish or the who were but who were banned by both the Flemish and the Frisian and that was his upbringings? And finally he came into the church he actually married the daughter of a man who who started to try to have that unity and he started to want some unity and Started to ask for that in his church, but he also during this time in Holland. There was a big move of Beginning to have the Armenians and I don't have time to go into that but the Armenians through Jacob Arminius Began to be in conflict with Calvin and beginning to give a whole different way of looking at the whole Way of reformed faith and the Armenians began to come against things like predestination Came against their view of the atonement and one of the particular things that they did is they really came against the the view of Satisfaction atonement and again, I don't have time to go into detail with all that But the whole concept that the the Reformers really push that all our sins are paid by the sacrifice of Christ Okay, it's something that's very common the the the Armenians said gave a slightly different view to the atonement and it seems that that this man Galenus did buy a buy-in to this view of That it's not exactly the satisfaction that Jesus gave us an example in the cross and this sometimes is now known as the ransom theology of the atonement or Christus Victor and some of those things and you and again I think some of this is higher theology that that gets people in a lot of trouble But none of nonetheless he's into this he's wants to go and now The churches he's also the part of this little group as they don't believe in a Visible church this little these little These little groups of Armenians they start this little groups called the collegiance your cup and the cross does a nice Words of that and they start having these little fellowships where they really undermine I think the whole concept of the brotherhood and say it's an invisible church Baptism isn't necessary to join our group, you know other issues non-resistance and things like that Are those really the important you even hear those buzzed around here? Are those essentials are those needed and all those things are being questioned and this Galenus is part of this group They're also by the way into oneness theology and believe in Jesus name only and so he starts people in the in the church Start getting concerned with him and start hearing about that they start getting concerned and they start calling in some people and they call in the big guns and one of the people that were part of the assembly to discuss this issue was even dealing been brought and he got brought into it and Basically laid out some rules and said, you know, you're going against the teachings of the church. That's been Galen says what are the teachings of men? Am I going to have to obey the teachings of men that are fallible? Am I can obey human standards and those types of things and start to say I'm gonna go on the Word of God alone And so we're not going to listen to you I feel him and then brought and all the rest of them said you need to be silent or Stop teaching this or you leave said no our Congregation in Amsterdam, which is a single Kirk there still today in Amsterdam. We're kind of decide this So they come in there they start deciding and they kind of in a sense break off not as formally But they have their own thing there and this is it's met What's the they meet on the lambs that the there was a symbol on the church called the lamb? this became the lamb and they're in there but and then of course inside there they start getting eternal division and Another minister there named by Apostle started to preach and he started to preach and the issue that caused the division According to John D. Roth is He was really pushing this atonement theology and one day Apostle was was preaching that satisfaction atonement the believing that all our sins are paid by Jesus Christ is Necessary for salvation and Galenus was so upset that he came in after his sermon and was Railing on him and complaining about him and people that were watching this Were very surprised and it was so significant that it made the newspaper and it was a newspaper that called this The war of the lamb because this was the Lamb Church Okay, and that was a dividing point. It actually wasn't this division over the do we submit to the church or not? that was part of it the issue came up over a view of the atonement interestingly the conservative then took the the satisfaction theology and and Became over there and they met in a brewery that they converted and the brewery Had a picture of a son on it. And so they come the sunnest how do you say that's honest and then the these others became the lamest and That became the division of the war of the lambs that happened in Amsterdam, so I You look at all this and the last step that I have In number 19 in general if you ask for help in solving disputes, you should heed the council van brought gave them some counsel I think they should have probably listened to it Maybe save themselves some trouble and then number 20 The biggest rule is this if a church dispute goes to the point of complete breakdown Never never go to the world to solve the disputes Unfortunately, what's that? Oh Gosh change that world put an L in there. Yeah, that was late at probably about midnight by the time I wrote Never okay, if it does get to this point rule number 20, unfortunately Apostle Called up the Burgermeister and he said hey they have our church building let us in there and they tried to sue the church and this caused chaos and division and and the whole people started to even the people of the town was saying how ridiculous it is to be a Mennonite and That's the kind of thing that I think we need to watch out for and I gave you the scripture there and I'll end with this 1st Corinthians 6 Dare any of you having a matter against another Go to law before the unrighteous and not before the Saints Do you not know that the Saints will judge the world and if the world will be judged by you? Are you unworthy to judge the smallest matters now? Listen to this. Do you not know that we shall judge the angels? How much more things that pertain to this life? He does expect us to judge and make decisions, but he's given us the inspiration of the Holy Spirit to make those decisions If then you have judgments concerning things pertaining to this life. Do you appoint those? Do you appoint those who are least esteemed by the church to judge I say this to your shame it is so that there There is not a wise man among you not even one who will be able to judge between his brother But brother goes law against brother and that before unbelievers now Therefore it is utterly and it is totally a failure to you. And so he rebukes him for that one of the most amazing things I think of Acts 15 is this There was disputes If you read acts 15 is where we had a big council the Pharisees got born again And they're starting to come into the church, but they had to struggle over circumcision and they had disputes It's this not so much that we don't have disputes The miracle of Acts 15 is that even in those disputes? They said we can take away the law because the Gentiles had received the Holy Spirit even as we Not that they did not decide things anymore Otherwise Paul's teachings as he goes on is ridiculous but the fact that in the midst of that acts 15 they were able to say it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to All of us. I believe the Holy Spirit wants us to be able to work out living practical things in everyday life But unless we're able to bow our hearts and to be able to have that kind of spirit that the brotherhood Will never see that just think those Pharisees left that day in acts 15 Convinced even though they went in that day Thinking the importance of circumcision in acts 15, so I've gone over time. Thank you very much for your patience It was a I think it's some important lessons. We learned from the splits of the Dutch. Let's try to live out a life for Christ In our time a quick prayer Jane, could you shine cuz you close in prayer?