Shane Idleman and his wife Morgan discuss the complexities of marriage, parenting, and pastoring in their sermon 'Marriage Q&A Part 2.' They address the challenges of handling criticism, the importance of communication in their relationship, and the need for transparency with their children about past struggles. They emphasize the significance of setting boundaries, maintaining a strong spiritual foundation, and the necessity of teaching their children about responsibility and the consequences of their actions. The couple shares their insights on navigating the chaos of family life while fostering a loving and supportive environment.

One reason we want to do this too is because a lot of times you don't see this side of us. Many of you don't get to know Morgan real well or see her throughout the church, she's kind of busy doing different things. So I think it's a good opportunity for the church to hear our hearts, kind of our focus, what we're about and therefore get to know the church a little bit better. So the topics were pain, parenting and pastoring. And we had to kind of narrow down some of the questions because there were a lot. But I'm just going to start right off with the pain one. How's that sound? Get that out of the way first. And somebody wrote in, how does Morgan handle the constant criticism of shame? So yes, tell us how. You have to keep the microphone up a little. Yeah, there you go. Depends on who, what, where, why and how. Sometimes I handle it better than others. Sometimes I'm like, you're lucky you're behind a computer screen. Mama Bear comes out a little bit. I would say mostly I handle it just by trying to brush it off for the most part. If there's criticism, if there's constructive feedback, that's a whole different thing. We're completely open for that. He deals with that. I deal with that all the time. And that is absolutely fine. Have no issues with that. It's more when people are just mean spirited or hateful. That kind of shields you from a lot. You probably don't see 95% of it for that reason. Yeah. Also, it depends. If it's coming from the world, it's a little easier for me to kind of brush off. If it's coming from a brother or sister in Christ, that's when it's a little more difficult to handle for me. He's a lot stronger in that area. I have a harder time with it. I think the reason it's hard for me probably is because I see what goes on behind the scenes. I see him up at 3am. I see him praying for you guys, fasting for you guys. And also, just to throw it out there, it's not a whole lot of criticism that we hear from in our own church body here. So that's at least good. That would be a lot harder. Yeah. But just broadly. I'd have to retire if that was the case. But I see him pouring his heart out in sermons, sometimes leaving our family to be with your family. Just different things and everything that goes into it and giving all that he has. Not that he's perfect by any means. I'm just saying I do see the heart behind it. And so then to hear the criticism is just, that can be a little difficult. Yeah, that's a good point you made because there is a big difference between the world criticism and when I step on toes, I expect criticism. I mean, that just comes with it. And that was the next question. How do you, Shane, handle criticism? A couple different ways. Number one is I usually don't look at most of it. People think I'm reading all the Facebook posts. I rarely do. I can't read the comments unless somebody notifies me of one. Like we had a lot of people dropping some F-bombs on one of my posts. So I had to just, I deleted that whole, I think it got hooked onto an atheist website and then I don't know what happened, but it was not good. And so people made me aware of that and then I just deleted the whole thing. But usually I don't really know about it. And then some people, you know, the world's going to be upset and then there's Christians. They call themselves Christians and I call them, you know, modern day Pharisees or heresy hunters are very, they're just very rigid and hard. So, you know, I don't, I kind of roll with the punches on that one. But if there's godly criticism and coming from people that, you know, Hey, you know, have you thought about this or constructive criticism? That's why they call it that because constructive. Then I usually look at it and pray about it. I usually look at most feedback. I never just assume, Oh, I'm right and you're wrong. That's not a good approach. You usually take that back to the Lord and find out, um, you know, their heart, my heart, Lord, what are you trying to teach me here? Um, so that's how I handle it. Number one, I don't look at a lot of it, especially if it's from outside people and they, they still do it. They send pastor Shane with no return address. It's probably not going to get open because those are never good. And especially letters and there's nothing at the bottom. And if a person has a valid complaint, you know, put your name, put your number. We'd love to talk with you. There's nothing wrong in that. So I actually, like she said, God's kind of gifted me in this area to, you know, it doesn't really hurt. It doesn't, um, I don't know, like thick skin. It just kind of comes with the territory. You have to expect that in this culture. And then how do you deal with hurt? You cause each other. Hmm. I'll let you tackle that one. But the answer is pretty easy, actually. What is it? Well, we have to practice what we preach. Uh, when we hurt each other, we, uh, you know, obviously apologize, acknowledge it and, um, take it to the Lord and, um, and not try to, you know, be prideful and arrogant and think we're right. That's the way it is. We try to just try to mend that. Okay. We hurt. Um, like yesterday in the communication, you know, yesterday just happened. I don't think I hurt you, but I hurt my daughter because my little daughter, seven years old, wanted me to take her to the store and get gift cards. And my wife said she just wants something to put in her new little wallet. So I get her fake gift cards because, you know, with no value on them with no value. So she came home crying. Dad didn't really get me gift cards. I'm like, you told me she just wants them to put in her wallet. I'm not going to spend $150 on gift cards. So, you know, those kinds of communication things, a lot of times, um, because I'm more private and I don't tell her a lot of maybe the burden I'm carrying because, um, we've learned that if I share a little bit of the burden, it becomes a mountain on her. Um, so I kind of share, I just kind of hold some of that to myself on leading the church. And if I hurt her or vice versa, we, we acknowledge it. We repent. We know that's one way the enemy will get into your marriage through hurt and through bitterness and resentment. And, you know, the enemy just keeps playing those seats. So we try to deal with it early and she'll say, you know, that that's just my opinion. You shouldn't have did that. Or you hurt me. Um, and I'm like, okay, well, here's how I saw it. And, you know, we, we kind of work through communications good. And sometimes it's good just to go put on worship and let God fix it because, um, ever get to where talking is not really helping, you know, just don't want to talk about it right now. Just move forward. Uh, but I think that at least that's from my perspective. And then of course, taking it back from, to God and knowing our kids are watching us and the church is watching us. That's actually almost exactly what I wrote. Um, and we've been married 17 and a half years. So that's a lot of years to be hurting each other. You know, um, we, we mess it up and fix it and get it right sometimes and mess it up all over again and fix it again and get it right. And you guys know, um, from your own experience too, that's just kind of the wave of marriage and, um, it, it comes with hurt and, um, you have to be able to move on from that. So I put, um, try to forgive quickly. It's not always easy. We're not saying, Oh, just do this. And then it's so easy. It's definitely hard, especially depending on the hurt. Some are more than others. You know, some things are just, Oh, I was a little offended by that. Whatever. I can move on. Other things are a little more, you know, cut a little more deeply. Um, is there any examples that we could give them of hurt? Cause I was trying to think of that wouldn't be too transparent, I guess, but I wish I thought of that ahead of time. I'm not good on the spot. I have to prepare. You can probably think of one. Why can't I keep going? Um, but, but with that, even though, um, even though it's not easy, God's word tells us to forgive. And so that has to be our model. That has to be our basis for how to deal with things. Um, and just remembering each other aren't perfect. You know, sometimes I think we get it in our head that, uh, whoever we're married to is Mr. And Mrs. Perfect. And that's just not true. They're not going to be, they can't meet all our needs. They can't fulfill all our expectations. Um, all of that. So if we can kind of remember, um, that they're just, you know, a sinner as well, trying to do their best to get through life. Um, I do think a lot of times the hurt that when we get hurt, it's unintentional. Um, sometimes it definitely can be intentional, but I think, you know, 80% of the time it's, it's an unintentional thing. And so if we can kind of keep that in mind of, um, just showing grace and knowing that maybe it wasn't on purpose and kind of go from that point of view. And then I also put communication, um, versus staying bitter. There's been times that I've not been great at that. I've just let something fester and fester and I've got bitter and resentful and it's gone on for a while. And that's just ugly. It doesn't feel good for anybody in the house. Um, so just the quicker you can communicate and, and be able to move forward, the better. And I think hurt, I can't think of big issues, but you know, like I've shared this with the congregation too. And she told me, I don't know when it was. I took a well when, um, you like, I've been putting down other pastors too much. You know, like you said, I don't remember what you said, but you're boy, you're sure saying that every sermon. I'm like, it kind of hurts, but it was a good hurt. Um, and then also sometimes with churches, like the decisions we'll make. Um, and if I forget to involve her in some things, cause we're, I mean, we're a congregation. We're doing this. Yeah. Oh, by the way. Yeah. I didn't tell you about the new children's ministry building. Um, so it's just, I think it's just communication and, um, not really nothing intentionally hurt. Um, I can't think of anything. On, on the pastor thing. It was just, I forget that sometimes I forget that I'm here every single week, both services and not everybody is. So when he, it just felt like for a few, um, weeks or months, it felt like in my mind, in every sermon you, he would say something like, you know, not all these big church, not everyone's hitting on sin and repentance, which I don't disagree with. I think it's fine for him to say that. It just felt like it became all the time that it was like, well, these churches aren't, and we are, and these are. And so I just kind of said gently as I could, like, you don't have to say that they're not just do it. We will do it. We don't have to always say that they're not doing it. I forget that not everyone hears that as often as I do. But, you know, it was good. You take it back. You know, I mean, yesterday we got, you know, she, she'd said something that, and said, you shouldn't have handled it that way. And I got upset and, um, you know, and we were still kind of disagree on it, but, oh, well, we'll just move forward. Um, I mean, well, I mean, yeah, let's still take a half hour to explain. So that, I think that's the segment on pain. How do you deal with pain? Um, maybe this one, no, this will probably come up with pastoring, uh, as well. How do you avoid burnout in ministry? It seems like so many pastors quit or have nervous breakdowns. And I don't know if you know the numbers, but it's pretty alarming. I mean, one out of one out of 10 actually finish in the ministry that start at like 25. Um, churches are closing down. I think it's 1500 pastors are quitting a month, resigning. It's a, it's a, I didn't believe this until I Googled it. And it's like up there with top one of the top five most stressful jobs with the president of the United States. I'm like, I don't think so. Not with Iran and things going on, but, um, it's up there with, with stressful because it's 24 seven. It's, it's carrying burden. It's, it's, it's walking on eggshells. It's making sure you don't offend here. You make sure here you build up here. You encourage you strengthen, you don't let down. And it's just a constant, you know, a pouring out. Um, so it, how do you avoid burnout in the ministry? Um, a couple of things we have, we've set up some pretty good boundaries in the past with taking a day off. And, uh, that has not been happening much lately. Uh, that day off is, is kind of vanished. Um, so I will take some, sometimes, uh, you know, a week off here, seasonal in the past, but, um, something we're praying about a share in the future is, uh, the possibility of a sabbatical where you take a little bit of extended time and you just grow spiritually, you disconnect and you re you kind of re-energize, um, yourself. Because I think most people, uh, most jobs you have about a hundred to 150 days off a year. If you factor in weekends, some people who work three days, get Friday, Saturday, Sunday off, um, or holidays, vacation. So this kind of what I do, you don't get a lot of, of time. Like, you know, like I used to get when, when I had weekends off or work four tens, amen. Anybody like that schedule? You know, those are great. Um, so I'm not complaining, but you have to, when you drain your adrenal glands, when you, when you are fatigued, when you are not burnt out, you're just tired. There has to be a way to re-energize yourself. So that's how I avoid burnout is normally I'll avoid it before it even happens. So if I'm starting to get burned out, um, I don't even know if burnout burned it out through is the right word. Um, I don't know. Do you want to chime in more? Oh, that's your phone. That is your phone during service. That's okay. Nobody knew until you said anything. So yeah, no, I'm not, I'm not on the verge of burnout to probably Morgan is more than me with, with the baby and up a lot. And, uh, so we take that time off. We make sure we have boundaries and say no a lot, but I think there's, there'll come a time, you know, where I'll take an extended sabbatical, uh, just to rest and recuperate. And we'll explain that later. We've already, the elders have already talked to me about that and I want to, it's kind of a little of announcement now. I don't know what that looks like. Um, because also I've been asked to speak at a large men's conference in Michigan and then possibly a flight to do something in Texas. And then Jim Garlow, who's coming, wants me to take a tour of the United Nations in Washington DC and do and show how they do Bible studies in the United Nations and a tour of the, of the Capitol with a congressman. And so I don't know what God's doing and all that. I don't know what, what this look, I don't know what it is. Um, is this, it's a unique calling at this church. So I'm trying to protect all that, safeguard all that. And, um, but that's how I, I, I kind of know myself and I don't get too, uh, too, too, I don't know, burned out or, or carried away with things. Right. I, the only thing I would add to that is I think you're good at, um, being filled up too. So you can't really pour out from if you're empty yourself. So I think he's pretty good at, um, making sure he's staying filled up by different sermons, pastors, connecting with people who influence him spiritually, um, worship his own personal prayer time. Um, I think that's a safeguard for sure. Yeah. That is burnout. And you know, my health, my focus on health, you know, I think that plays a big role, uh, because when your body's running, how it should be running, you don't get as tired. You don't get as fatigued. Uh, you can go longer, harder, faster, stronger in the ministry and, and because you're, you're taking care of your body. It's a lot of the people who kind of just neglect that because they think it's not spiritual. And then they, they start to have a lot more and you'll see that, uh, Wayne Grudem, uh, not Wayne Grudem. Uh, Wayne Cardero wrote a book running or leading on empty. Mark Driscoll talked about his nervous breakdown and a lot of these guys are on hot, high octane caffeine. They're running 15 hours a day. They're not taking care of their body and they're, they're just falling apart. So if health becomes an issue, I mean, a health becomes a priority that kind of helps to for sure when in ministry. Uh, and then this one, I don't want to spend too much time. Walk us through the sermon preparation process. Um, usually I look, I have to prepare my heart before I prepare the message. Uh, what, what flows out usually is my lifestyle, my life being filled up with God, being filled up with the, being filled the Holy Spirit that that comes out in the sermon. So before I look at sermons, sermonizing and preparing on paper, I have to make sure I'm being filled and fed. And a lot of times what I deliver or what comes out that's not in the notes is what God's been doing in my heart. And, um, but the sermon prep, like she mentioned, I, I, I just get up sometimes at three 34, four 30, just get up. And then I spend a lot of time in worship with my prayer list and then go into reading the word of God just for the myself. And then I go into preparing the sermon for Wednesday or Sunday when there's Wednesday and Sunday, that's a, that's a, that's a tricky week because you can't just put something together. I mean, it takes hours and studying one word can take you an hour just looking at the nuances in the, in the Greek and the Hebrew. Um, so yeah, so it's, it's, and then I'll go probably take a walk, exercise a little bit, and then I'm ready for the day. So that's my consistent pattern. I'm just not a night person. I bless all of you who are, but my mind just shuts off right about now and it's hard to even read the Bible. It's hard to read the Bible. Ask her after I've tried for after seven o'clock, it's just, my mind just shuts down. But four in the morning I can, I can really read. I don't know. Do you want to comment on that one? You've, that one's probably pretty easy. I think you covered it. I would just say everything you said. And then what part of pastoring, and again, if you have questions, you can, we'll hold them right to the end. Well, if we have some, some time, what part of pastoring is the most difficult? What is the most fulfilling? And I think I've mentioned this a few times. The most difficult is seeing people, you know, with living water, just steps away and they don't want to come and drink that you, they, they, you know, the answer you, you, you, we can, we as Christians, we can give people the answer. And how frustrated do you get when they don't see the answer and they fall deeper and deeper and deeper into sin? So I think that's the, the most difficult part is seeing the lives destroyed that could be built back up again. And then the most fulfilling is actually the opposite of that. Seeing people filled with the spirit, seeing people restore their marriage, seeing people come to, to morning worship or wanting to fast or wanting to pray and just that spiritual hunger for God. It's very fulfilling in, in the ministry. Um, hardest part. I, I don't know. I have a couple, I guess. I think one would, the first one that comes to mind is the fishbowl living in the fishbowl and everyone's watching and looking. And I don't say that to mean that I think I'm like, you know, always on your guy's mind or anything like that. I think you know that it's just, it's just part of the nature. It's just, you live in a fishbowl. People watch what you do, what you say, what you wear, what you eat, what you, how you treat your kids. Um, how you treat your husband, just all of it. And so, um, on one hand, I feel like that should be, that that's every Christian. Cause if you go to work, if you go, you know, you're on sports or whatever, if anyone knows that you're a Christian, they, they're watching you. Um, so that's, that kind of is common to everybody, but it, it is definitely a little bit more, I think, um, in this position. If I go in the grocery store, I run into somebody, they start looking at my, what are you getting in your grocery? I'm like, well, you got a six pack of beer. What are you looking at? Mike, what do you look at my, my, my shopping cart for? I'm joking, of course, but it is a fishbowl, you know, and it's, it's hard because I think you guys know from listening to him. And if you just know me, um, I think we're both pretty transparent. So it's such a fine line. Cause you want to be real and you want to be relatable, but then if you're too real and too relatable, then you get judged. So it's just this like, but I can't really fake anything. So it's kind of like either, you know, take it or leave it. Um, but that's difficult. And then I, uh, the other thing I think that's hard for me, I don't think as much for him is it's kind of lonely. Um, not as in he's gone a lot, but more as in, um, really, you know, deep friendships. It's hard to kind of, um, cultivate those when your husband is the pastor. So, um, when other people are opening up at Bible study, I can't open up quite as much or when you're trying to build a friendship, it's, it's always in the back of your mind. Well, okay. What are they going to think? Or, you know, can't say too much because while everyone else is venting about this or that, my husband is their pastor. And so, you know, it's just kind of, it can be lonely at times. There's been seasons, I think, where I've kind of told him, I'm just so frustrated, um, over that issue. And then other times it's, it's not as much of a big deal. So I think it comes and goes depending on where I'm at in life. And, you know, if I'm, uh, having a hard time in life in general. Yeah. I mean, this church is a true blessing, but I know most churches, the number one, the people who receive the most amount of gossip are the, the pastor, the pastor and his wife, usually because most people, you know, their gossip and not doing things right. Not here, of course, but most places that's, you know, and over the years we have, you know, we've heard about it quite a bit. We've had to confront some of it. Um, and we've had people that we, that we knew and trust and love, and then end up, you know, really turning on you and you've all had that. Um, so I think it just kind of makes you kind of polarized and, and wanting to choose friendships carefully and different things. We had a pretty big one, um, a while back that, that was probably the hardest thing we've ever dealt with in ministry. And it did make me kind of clam up a little bit and it was hard to, to break out of that shell again and, and be willing to let people back in, um, just cause it hurts, you know, or it can be hurtful. Um, but the most fulfilling, um, watching people, you know, breakthroughs, salvation, um, people stepping into their gifting is exciting for me too. It's kind of like, you feel like a proud parent when someone's, you know, starting a ministry or you just see them, um, doing good and, and ministering to people or watching the kids and the kids getting excited. And, um, so it's definitely more fulfilled there. There's more good than there is hard for sure. Yeah, that's true. And what's your biggest regret? Oh, this one's easy that I didn't start following the Lord when I was a teenager. That's a no brainer. Um, but God used it, you know, I don't try to harp on that, but that's, that's probably one of my biggest regrets. I think if my biggest regret in ministry would be, um, probably to have been a lot more humble when I first started the church and listened and been more gracious. And, and, um, I think that was one of John MacArthur's big regrets too, because, you know, you're just a person you're getting a ministry. You start to, you know, I used to run a business and you can't, ministry is not like running a business. You volunteers, not people on payroll. And so just being more gentle and loving and knowing that people aren't always where you're at spiritually is, is really helpful. Um, so I would, I wish I could repair some of the, uh, and it wasn't bad, but just more, you know, when you're, when you're affirmed for the truth, sometimes you take a hard stance on things. And people have said, Shane, your preaching has really changed over the years. Um, you've really softened up, even though the message hasn't softened, the heart has softened up more humility. And that really just because of a lot of brokenness over the years and being humbled by God and different things. And, um, uh, I'm hoping I'm going to try to find the very first sermon I ever preached when we started this church and, and share it with you. Once we get closer to the, um, to our anniversary, we are celebrating 10 years of September on the church. So, um, I remember when we first started the church thinking, oh, I can't wait for 10 years from now. And things are like established and, you know, going good. And I'm like, you snap and here we are. Yeah. I cannot believe it's almost been 10 years. Can not believe it. We just grabbed this person for childcare. We just had this family pass out, pass out bulletins for ushering and, and just didn't have a building. Uh, what was your biggest regret? Did you answer that? I didn't, but I'd probably. It's similar with yours. Oh, like the past past. Okay. Yeah. We have a similar, so many regrets. How do you pick so many regrets? How do you pick? I mean, are we talking parenting, pastoring, marriage, your own self? What's your biggest regret in marriage? Moving on. Those last Q and A. Well, I think, oh, do we answer that one? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, I think both of us would have been more, a lot less selfish when we first got married, you know, more, not, not as so selfish and self-focused. Uh, what is your greatest fear? Do you want to go first? Um, I have two, you can see I'm indecisive. What was the other question? I had two on the other one too. I can't pick one. Um, my greatest fear would be kids walking away because of, um, because of the ministry. We try really hard to just let them have a normal life. They're normal kids, like everyone else's kids. Um, they have the freedom to mess up and get back on track just like everyone else. So we, we try our best with that. Um, but we are here a lot and, um, we don't apologize, you know, for that with the kids, but I think it's my biggest fear. Cause you always hear about PKs and how crazy they get and, you know, wandering from the faith and all that kind of stuff. So, um, I think that would be one of my greatest fears. And then the second would be not finishing strong. Um, just cause I know anything can happen to anyone. And you know, you, you say not us, we're going to, we're going to finish strong. Um, but pride comes before a fall. So always wanting to make sure that we're just running that race and keeping our eyes focused on, on Jesus and, and doing the best that we can. So that, you know, even like you've said in your sermon, you might see me limping to the finish line, but I'm going to make it to the finish line. So that's good about the kids. I feel the way too, but a lot of times PK kids rebel because either number one, they've been in too hard of an environment where they've been controlling and controlling. And you know, you're the pastor, you can't do this in enforcing rules without a relationship. So we, we do probably allow them to do, um, more than, uh, uh, maybe certain other people would, um, not a lot of freedom. They don't have a phone and things like that. But I mean, just be kids, you know, we're not going to come home and, and preach the word at you all the time and tear you down. And, and so let them experience a little bit of, of life within the boundaries of, of what's responsible. Um, so that way they won't feel like they've been stifled. Uh, of course we'll still choose movies for them and things like that, but just, we don't want to have that heavy handed. Cause that's what they rebel from. Usually they rebel from that home out of the house, freedom, and then they, you know, do their thing or they don't like the Christ they see in their parents and they rebel from that. They, so I want to be real transparent, ask for forgiveness, watch daddy struggle. Here's why we struggle. I don't claim to be perfect. Um, and, and they watch you go through that faith and you actually lead them, um, in that area of, of, of falling forward. And so not acting perfect because they can spot hypocrisy. I think kids can spot it way more, but dad, you said this Sunday. Oh, well, I know, but you know, and they're, they're good at that. And also one of my greatest fears, I'll just tell you, um, is when we're gone, that this church doesn't turn away from God's word. It doesn't become liberal, doesn't get the wrong pastor in here that will take it in an unhealthy direction. All we've all together have been building, and I know God will sustain it. God will raise up people. So I'm not worried in that sense. And we take fear captive and we don't dwell on it. So on one hand, I'm not worried at all because God built the church. He's going to see it through. But on the other hand, that's the personal fear I struggle with. And I also am concerned for our children and grandchildren, for some of you on what is happening in our nation. Um, because I do know people, um, if you saw that new picture that came out, was a president of the United States recently. I know for those people on his board. I talk to them regularly and we, we are in a very interesting spot in our nation. Um, for example, um, we have the left and the media and liberals calling our president a terrorist for what he did to Iran's terrorist. And it's just, it's just maddening. It is, it is what's going to happen as we keep going this course. I'm praying for revival, I'm praying for restoration, but I do, I am concerned with, uh, this, this uprise of, of millennials who don't value God. They're, they're walking away from faith. They don't claim any religion. Um, that, that's something that does concern me. Um, there's a fear there, not for myself necessarily, but for family and for our families and what we're leaving them and what we're not fighting for, what we should be fighting for, uh, with godly admiration, godly, um, a desire. Not, you know, not just to, for example, get political or do these things, but Lord, what do you want us to do? How can we make a difference in our society? I mean, is anyone else feeling that out there with looking at the news and we begin to, we're not supposed to fear though, because we were called to make a difference. Um, but I think that would be one of my greatest fears for the church, what I mentioned, and then also for our nation and where we're going with everything. Because what we're seeing, uh, in Hollywood, I mean, you saw that one actress said, you know, her abortion got her where she is today to win that Grammy. And I just want to throw up. It's, and this stuff is acceptable, uh, in transgenderism and allowing kids to teach, to dress. It just, it's just, it's just incredible how far we've drifted. So those are my thoughts on those. Um, we had a few on parenting and marriage, parenting and marriage are actually parenting. But let me say this, we don't, we have not mastered this area. We can plug you in with some good families that maybe have, have, have, uh, have, um, finished well and, and their kids have turned out well. And, uh, so we don't have, we don't, um, want to act like we have all the answers here, but we do maybe can give some insight. How do you deal with the constant chaos in the home? Where was that question? That's a new one that came in. Cause it is constant chaos. Controlled chaos. So how do you deal with the chaos in the home? Not very well, not very well. No, um, just, you know, trying again to, and, and it's been difficult. I'll be honest with me in this season with the baby. Um, typically for me, if I can be in the word, I have worship playing. Um, I've had my prayer time that things go much smoother, even if it's still chaotic, at least I am not feeling chaotic. Um, but in this season with the baby and, and not using that as excuse, but it's just the fact I haven't been in the word as much as I, um, should or could be. Um, and so then I feel a little more out of control. So my biggest tip would be make sure you as the parent are, um, getting your time with the Lord and really, um, being able to have, to have that be the start. Um, it seems to just set the tone a little more for, for the day. Um, and then just trying to teach them, you know, we, we have five and that gets, um, almost two teenagers loud and crazy and obnoxious and annoying times and all the things that your kids do. Um, and so just trying to wrangle them in and, um, you know, kind of get down on their level. Sometimes if one of like, if the smaller one is acting up, I have to bend down and really kind of look her, you know, eye to eye, or if the taller one, I have to stand up on a chair. I told you, um, our oldest is taller than me. Um, but you know, just trying to communicate with them what's okay, what's not okay, what's allowed, what's not allowed. And, and doing that doesn't mean that they're going to just, you know, snap and be perfect, but it's just the constant being consistent and keep doing it. And eventually I hear that it will someday pay off. Yeah, that's, that's kind of what I was going to say too. I mean, I heard the baby last night to 1130 and one 30. And so we had the baby newborn getting up and then we have, um, you know, the girls and my son and I went, I was gone for a few days. I went to a cabin, many of you know, and fasted and made a prayer list. And it was, it was a good time to get away, but it didn't feel real great because of the fast, but that kind of is to be expected. But I come home and my garage has turned into a workshop by my son who wants to be a carpenter. So he's got, he's got sawdust in my sawdust everywhere. In your teacup, I think. In your teacup, in your coffee mug. Yeah, the sawdust everywhere. And he just like, how did this happen? Uh, but, but my, I, what I was trying to remember is thank God he's doing this. You know, thank God we want to, we want to nurture them in their giftings. So I look at chaos kind of in the home as the kids growing and learning. It doesn't mean we allow bad behavior. I mean, we, we address it, but to let kids be kids, let them have fun and a fun environment, but also learn in that environment. And, um, we try to bring some order into that chaos. You know, whether we pray together as a family, we try to do that in the mornings and, um, try to do daily devotional with them once in a while at the dinner table, that's kind of falling off to the side. But like she said, you start that day off with your relationship with God, because from that is when every, everything else is going to flow from how you're doing inside spiritually. If you're strong spiritually, you can take on a lot more, can't you? But when you're not doing good spiritually, that's begin, that's where it's all falls apart. And, uh, we just expect it, you know, with, with four girls in the house and a boy, you know, five count Morgan girls. It's, it's, uh, there's going to be, there's going to be some amount of, of activity. I think for sure. I think too, it helps. Um, I just told our oldest daughter this a couple of weeks ago. The reason it is good to have, you know, at least one good girlfriend is so that you hear that things are not uncommon or, or not just common to you. So when, you know, sometimes I remember, um, years ago when I thought bedtime was just, I still don't like bed. I like it because they're all going to bed, but I don't like the process of bedtime. Um, and especially when they were little, I need a drink. I need to go to the bathroom. I know, you know, every excuse in the book to get up. And I was just losing my mind and I thought it was only us. I just pictured all my other friends' homes, you know, good night, Johnny, good night, Sarah. And they go to bed and mom does whatever she wants. And I just, I honestly thought that's how it went. And everyone else's home until I started talking to people and finding out they also despise the bedtime process. And so I was like, yes, it's not just us. So I think it does help to kind of hear that we're all in this together. And that's what I tell, you know, sometimes I'll get a text from someone about, you know, their kid doing something crazy or this or that. And my reply is, we're all in this together. It's not just you. That particular situation might be just you, but we're all trying to figure this parenting thing out and doing the best we can and doing it according to God's word. And it's just going to look different for everyone because everyone's different. Everyone's kids are different. But I think it does help for sure to know that you're not the only one and that other homes are a bit chaotic as well. Yeah, they are. And chaos means, I mean, we actually, there's not a lot of like yelling in the house because we don't really allow that too much. I mean, kids will get upset. But when we talk to them one on one, like I'll just follow my son into his room. He'll slam the door shut and I'll say, no, you're not slamming. And we go and I talk to him about their attitude. And if you lower your voice and kind of talk to them peacefully and answer, or maybe wait till the right time. You don't want to just throw gasoline on the fire. Sometimes it's about timing. And just remember, there are kids growing up in a very difficult world nowadays, especially with electronics. How do you monitor electronics? Tito, did you figure it out? We talked about that. It's hard. So monitoring electronics. But what if you have different disciplining methods or if one parent doesn't want to discipline? That question came in, too. All I put for that was hard. So I was going to let you answer that because it's hard. What is really hard? What if you have different discipline methods or if one parent doesn't want to discipline? Well, usually this is part of when we do pre-marriage counseling. We haven't in a little while. But this is one of the things you get out out up front. You try to learn more about the other person, parenting, how they were raised, what to expect. But it depends on the disciplining methods. As long as a child is being disciplined, meaning they're learning that their behavior is not good. And hopefully parents can agree on at least that, that something has to be done. And you try to find that middle ground. OK, well, no electronics. Or, you know, the guy gave us a little bit of tissue on our gluteus maximus for a reason. And that's what it's called, right? You're behind. So, so, but you have to agree that the child does need discipline. You can't just let it let the look at what this is what's happening in the world today is we're just letting in America. A lot of the families are letting kids do whatever they want. And they're especially when you see them screaming in the store and I want that ice cream. OK, Johnny, here you go. Be quiet. That ever happens, we take them out and say, you're not getting anything now. So we, fortunately, we kind of agree on process. Yeah, that was a process. Oh, yeah, yeah. That's true. Sometimes you gave more than me. Sure. They always go, mom, mom will make us. Mom will let us stop by and get ice cream. I just tell them, no, we're not getting ice cream. But then I'm like, if I turn the computer off for three days, it's not coming on. And I'll come home and someone's like, but dad said it was. So I think we're strong in different areas. I've had to turn on the watch YouTube for a minute. And we try to we try to watch that, make sure that the programs are good and different things. But it is hard. You need to give yourself a little bit of grace. So if you want to discipline and you're in the other spouse doesn't, you'd have to have a heart to heart and explain and show them why a lack of discipline is really going to hurt the kids in the long run. This is when kids need to be shaped and they need to learn that, you know, things can hurt them. And by discipline, you can really help point them in the right direction. And if you just go, you know, off, off of God's word, he is, he, he disciplines those who he loves. So if God disciplines us, then certainly we have an obligation to discipline the kids. However, that looks in your home could vary a lot. But the question was, what if, what if you have different disciplining methods or if one parent doesn't want to discipline? So for that parent, um, I would say that's not really an option. You have to discipline your kids, especially if you're trying to live by God's word, which is what we should be doing. Um, how and, and, and all of that, that's going to have to be worked out. Yeah. How do you find the balance between enabling your kids and not enabling them? Well, most of you probably know, but enabling means allowing them to continue in a destructive pattern. I don't know if this came in from somebody who maybe has older kids at home that, you know, by allowing them to stay in their home, they're still going out and drinking and, and, uh, maybe drug use. And they're enabling them by providing a house. I've had to answer this question a lot over the years. And I usually tell the parents you need to do, take it to God and do what is best for you. I think there's a time and a place where you, you tell them I can't keep enabling your lifestyle, but there's other times where you want to, you want to offer. Okay, son, you always have a place to lay your head. I'm going to help you get through this. I love you enough. And it's hard to find that balance because there's a line there. I don't think there's a, I don't think there's a one size fits all approach. Um, I think some, you know, if you know, your kid's about ready to change, you don't want them out in the street there, you know, Hey, why don't you stay here another week? And somebody might say, no, you're enabling them. But then there's another time where they're just taking advantage of you and the roof under your head, the roof you're providing the food. They're just taking advantage. You're still going out and causing problems and drinking or back into drugs and their lifestyle. No problem. Just come back home. No problem. And you're kind of enabling that, you know, you might have to drop the hammer and say no more of this. We can't, I love you enough to not keep you, not allow you to keep doing this. So that, to me, that's depends on the situation and what, I mean, it's hard to say, Oh no, this is how you always do. But, and if you're talking about younger kids, um, enabling them, I don't know what the question would be about exactly. Um, maybe what you allow, what they don't allow, uh, for example, um, because they also, it might be the same person at what age should they have a phone? I have a whole answer for that. Oh yeah. Well, that's, it's kind of tough. And if, if you have questions you can ask on the microphone just a minute. Um, but I think finding the balance between enabling is you talk, you communicate and here's what's happening. Here's what's going on with our, in our home, with our kids and what's the best plan for this. But let's, let's tackle that one. This might be what the person was talking about and what age, I'm sorry, what age should they have a phone? 10, 10 years old, nine. Okay. The reason I never had Tito, the reason this is hard is because I know there are parents out there with kids younger than ours that have phones. So if that is the case and that's you, we're not judging at all. I'm just going to give you what we have done and what we have seen and that's the best I can offer. So, um, if, if, just so you know that, um, our oldest is 14 and they go down from there and none of them have a phone. One of them does have an iPod and that child has proven, um, that she is responsible enough to have an iPod. However, even within that, um, there are a lot of restrictions. Um, in fact, she was asking for a certain app that we didn't allow her to have for a long time until Christmas. And she, um, told one of her friends that she was asking for that particular app for Christmas and she laughed and I started laughing, um, because, uh, it was just funny to me. Um, but, but the, or like our son, different kids will be like, oh, you know, I'm getting made fun of for this or I'm getting made fun of that. I'm like, you know, it's, um, it's okay because as you grow, you're going to get made fun of for your faith. You're going to get made fun of because you're not doing certain things because you're not watching certain things because you're not, you know, whatever it is, you're, you're going to be made fun of all the time. So to me, that's not really a bargaining chip because I'm like, yeah, welcome to the club. I get made fun of, um, too. Um, so anyway, even her iPod is restricted. Um, we do have, uh, our 10 year old is at the gym over 10 hours a week training, um, for gymnastics. So it has at least crossed my mind. Should we give her a phone? Should we not? Um, and the answer is no, for now there's different things, you know, maybe a watch or a flip phone where she could just call or just text, things like that. But I think one of the reasons for us, um, is, well, there's so many reasons. One, I don't think they're, they have the maturity yet. Not just our kids. I think just kids in general. And I don't mean that rudely that it's just a fact. They just, they only get mature with, with time and there's so much out there bombarding them and coming against them that, um, even if they themselves are a good kid, the enemy is very crafty. Um, for us, we've seen a girl, um, through a phone be lured and go missing for three days. And we, um, helped put up posters and signs all around town. Um, a few years back, um, we've walked through with families whose boys discovered pornography, um, because they had the phones early on. Um, we've seen, gosh, we've seen all kinds of things. And so for us, it's just not worth the risk yet. Um, yeah. And if you're asking what age, like what Morgan said, it's, it's each, it's up to each family. But I think if, um, the, the child is not very responsible, number one, but also number two, if you just give them a phone and it's just unlimited internet access, I think we have to really look at that. Cause that's, that's, um, takes a lot of wisdom in a, in a, at the age of a child to, to have that much tech, that much information at the palm of their hand, they can just put in any picture they can put in anything. Um, so if, if you want an age, what I would think, I'm guessing probably 16, you know, when they have a vehicle, if they're driving then, and they're going to be out and they've shown responsibility, or maybe, you know, if you're 14, 15 in the flip phone, I mean, it depends what your situation is. And like she mentioned, there is a watch that the kids can get. Only you can call it and you can only give access to the numbers they can call. So it's a great way for, for communication. They can't go online and things like that. Um, but I also think you should put filters on the phones for your kids. You can put on, um, you know, a covenant eyes that will block pornography sites and you can actually get a report of what they're searching. So they, there's added accountability, but I mean, at some point you can't, we can't shelter kids forever. We can't say, okay, here, you're 16. Here's your phone. Here's the internet. Good luck. You know, there's kind of like working them into that process, teaching them about responsibility and things. Yeah, I agree. I don't think the age is as important as the filters and really monitoring and trying to keep communication open with them. Um, I do think if our kids went to public school, I think I would, um, be a little further along in letting them have one. Um, they're homeschooled. So, um, you know, yeah. So I think it would, you know, it might be a different story, um, if that were our situation. Um, but I think the biggest thing would be not just, here you go, do whatever you want. Um, cause they'll just get them little sweet little selves in trouble. And a watch would be a good, good idea for high school. I mean, for in high school, but for school, cause they can contact them. Um, and I think we answered this last time, but what are the top three ways to a fair proof your marriage? And we talked about transparency communication, but mainly our relationship with the Lord. I mean, that's where, that's where most affairs start is when one spouse begins to walk away from God or gets out of the word and becomes, you know, they're starting to grow distant and cold and callous. And she talked about bitterness, unforgiveness, and it's a process. Having an affair doesn't usually happen, you know, just happen. It's a process of, of drifting away from God and entertaining thoughts from the enemy, you know, that I don't deserve this. I can find better. And the enemy starts to plant and it's a process. So the number one way to fair proof your marriage is to keep your heart filled with God's spirit and communicating. Um, you know, she's feeling irritated or she's feeling distant or she feels like, you know, we were just, our marriage is not in a good spot right now. It's not healthy. Okay. What do we do? Let me take tomorrow off and let's just go on a date and let's reconnect. And so you don't let the, that the enemy come in and begin to divide you and divide you on that area. Um, I also put share social media accounts. I feel like that helps because we've just heard a lot of stories, um, over the years of, of people coming in that way. Um, I also put that. I don't think we, I said last time we did this was don't compare. Cause I think comparison is a trap. You start comparing your spouse to someone else. Um, and then you become, that can lead to being very discontent and then discontent leads to being apathetic and just not caring. And then, like he said, all these fiery darts coming in and you're, you know, all these thoughts are coming in and, and you're having a hard time taking your thoughts captive and that just snowballs. And then next thing, you know, um, yeah, comparing is hard. Isn't it? One of my kids recently said, dad, you look like the rock, but you're not as big and strong, just like the bald head, I guess. I don't know. Um, one of them told me, I don't know if I told you this. All right. One of them said, cause I just turned 40. And so she goes, Kylie goes, oh, or no. Yeah. I don't know what you want to know. Um, but they go, oh, 40 is not old. I'm like, thanks. She's like, you look old, but 40 is not old. Kylie said that you should have quit while you're ahead. You were doing good for a minute there. Wow. So that, so back to three ways to a fair proof, your marriage, that would be, that would be number one, two, and three, your own relationship with God. Uh, because you can have these, you know, accountability or sharing accounts or all these little things, but it's really an issue of the heart is your heart, right? Yeah. And, uh, I still run into people sometimes that like, they don't leave their phone out. They don't allow their spouse to have their phone password. And it's, I don't know, a secret, a bank account and a phone they can't look at. Oh, that's not good. So you want to be transparency and he grabbed the phone, here's passwords. And that really just takes away a lot of the fuel from the enemy because the devil always works in darkness, always covering things up and, and trying to knock us off course. And he wants to destroy marriages, doesn't he? That's one of the big goals right now. I think of the enemy is families, marriages, and the sanctity of life, that whole, the whole issues, the whole big issues that are going on right now. Um, so do you have any questions on this? Um, you can go right there to that microphone. I think it's working. Uh, who's first? No one. Don't be embarrassed. Who wants to go first? Perry, Lori, Rick. Okay. There he goes. I knew, I knew there was somebody there. All right. Fire away for both of you. Yeah. To speak right into it. Sorry. For both of you, uh, you have work and then you have home. Is there anything that you do, um, aside from prayer time that gets you just away from, and it's something that's like just calming to yourself. Okay. What's, what's calming to our other, cause we have work and we have home. So how do we get, uh, relaxation basically? Yes. Okay. Like individually. Yes. Okay. Do you want to chime in? Um, why no, uh, I mean, there's a lot of little things, uh, thank God to Morgan's mom. She got us a day at a spa in Santa Clarita that we can finally get away. She's going to watch the baby. So we'll do that for half a day. Um, and I usually like going, uh, me personally, just get away and go up in the hills here or wherever and, and, and walk and worship and pray and just turn off. I got to get back in. I used to not bring my phone as much, um, but just getting back into that time of connecting with God. So that's my, my big thing is, is exercising as far as walking and, and, and praying and listening to God's spirit and listening to the whole and listening to worship as well. Yeah. Um, for me probably just, um, he's real good at letting me just do an errand by myself and not have to, you know, have all the kids in tow. Um, so you're not, not like grocery shopping, Aaron, but just like go do whatever you want type of Aaron. Um, so not whatever you want type of Aaron. She'll never come back. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, but yeah, just being able to, I would say for me just being able to get out alone doing, you know, whatever. I think our vacation helps too. When we go, um, vacation's interesting when you have five kids, it's not really vacation. You're not, you need a vacation. Yeah. You're not, it's, it's actually, you come home more tired than when you went, but it's good for the kids anyway. Uh, any other questions? We can go by the microphone right there and just ask us, Chris, do you want to go over there or you want to say it real quick? I can repeat it where you want to say it and I can repeat it. Oh, that's a good one. Yeah. Right. Right. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's a good question. Um, and for those, we're trying to pick up the audio on it. So I'll repeat on how to make, uh, how do you agree on media choices basically? Um, and that, that's a good question because I think she would agree. She's probably more lenient and I, you know, I take, I can take the harder line. So trying to, you know, my kids aren't going to hell if they happen to watch Barbie. Uh, you know, so it's trying to fix those, those, you know, where do you draw that line? Because nowadays, you know, you gotta be, you know, really, um, careful on what you allow. For example, the big one, um, you know, they, we, uh, they saw frozen, you know, the magic in it. And I don't really like that, but I explained to them the difference magic and what Disney is not good company. And so I don't go around saying if I did, it would be, they wouldn't watch anything. Uh, because not too many things meet that standard unless, uh, me and Aubrey went and watched little women. The, uh, I was bored, but she liked it. The 18, 1800 version of it, it was PG, you know, it was, it was a kind of good story about girls and sisters. And, you know, that was a good date. I took her on, I looked at her first. I didn't, didn't have anything in it, uh, that was inappropriate. And, um, so we probably, um, Chris, to answer your question, I've probably compromised more in this than, uh, I normally would have. But it doesn't mean I might've been too rigid in that area. Um, and it, and it, there is a difference like action movies. Um, because when I watch the Spider-Man two, I thought it was, there's so many things inappropriate in it that, you know, you gotta start looking, I gotta start looking online a little bit more. Um, cause I just, you know, you see, you know, see a rating, people say, oh, it's great. And you go, it's like, no, this is not good. Even PG in Hollywood can sometimes have a lot of innuendos, a lot of sexual things. Um, and then Spider-Man, they, it was, it made him, he's a kid. It kind of hit, like he had sex with that lady. It was just so inappropriate. So I guess I have a real critical eye when it comes to movies. I'll come home and I'll tell, you know, they did this and this. And like, so I can see all these little things in a movie. I can find it. Um, so we, we actually are struggling through that ourselves. We, we are pretty, we are pretty, um, adamant about certain things. Definitely rated are most PG thirteens are not good. I want to see the, I want to read about it more, um, than, than just the go by the rating. I want to know what's being taught. Um, so I don't know if we found that balance yet. I'm kind of going to just, uh, um, I don't know what the right, just learning through, um, I've, I've learned to just default to him. So if there's something that I'm like, Oh, I think, you know, it's, it's probably okay if we teach him through it and talk about it. Um, but if it's something that he has a strong, you know, a hard no on, I'm like, cool. I, I defer to him on that. So finding the balance, I think you'd have to talk with your spouse and, and agree on something. Is this good for the kids? Cause it is hard, isn't it? I mean, there's so many movies, uh, there's so many things that, that are out there. And, um, I usually go into these things, not quite knowing everything that I'm getting into. Cause I heard from a friend that was good and you, you take their, you know, their advice on it and you find out, Oh man, what is, what's their definition of good? Uh, so it's an area I just, I'll let you all know I haven't mastered, um, but I am pretty selective. We don't go to the movies much. We were kind of careful what, what we watch, but some things, you know, creep in there. And, um, uh, I mean, there's been things that have crept that we're like, okay, we'll put on and then quickly realize this isn't good. So we'll just turn it off. And some of it's trial and error. Some of it, you know, ahead of time. Um, and then some of it, you just go, whoops, do better next time. Like with Disney, with frozen and thing, I know it's probably going to shock some people just right there, but you know, I don't really, I took my daughter to an evolutionary, uh, evolutionary teacher's class for three hours and let him teach on evolution. And we talked about it afterwards at the college and she can't believe that people believe in evolution. So you give them a worldview, you help them in this area. Um, so I would teach why magic isn't good. Um, that why, you know, as you guys are growing up, here's what you need to be careful about. Um, and you know, try to use as a learning tool. I know that some people might say, well, it's just an excuse. Well, if you have, if you found a way to perfectly watch or perfectly parent your kids without having them watch anything appropriate while still not being so tight and, and, uh, legalistic on them, I'd love to, you know, know how you figure that one out. But, um, it is hard. It's difficult. Even if you're on Netflix, they click the wrong channel and, um, you know, the, or the wrong movie and they start getting some very graphic things. So it's, it's hard these days. Another question. If, okay, go ahead. I was just wondering in the finances, um, if you have a disagreement on a expenses or something like that, who would handle, how do you guys handle that? We don't talk about finances. She, she has her account. I have mine and we just do whatever. Oh, finances. Um, well give you a big, broad picture. Um, I, before we, we, before I went full time here, I was on, I was in real estate and I was doing really good. Like you see these for Ferris Tarasiano and maxi case signs. You know, I was, I was on that course and, um, and it was going to make some very, very good money because I knew a lot of people in the Valley I've lived here and they got planted the church and then, okay, well, I told my boss, you know, I need, I'm probably going to do this. He's, I'm sure he thought, okay, well I'm sure he'll change his mind in six months and I never did. So I finally just let that go. Uh, let my, didn't renew my life. I had still have my license. I think I just let everything go and we started the church, but we, we downscaled from our home vehicles. We paid off bills. We got to just a, just a basic, you know, family living like a house track home in Palmdale. And, um, then I, I pay the majority like house payment, um, because I'm trying to send any little bit extra to get that house paid off quicker. And, and it's all handled maybe a few of the big payments and then she takes the rest and does the day to day toilet paper, you know, paper towels, paper plates, uh, we'll kind of spread the shopping of groceries over. Um, so we have a budget each month and we just, we stay within that budget actually have been doing pretty good. Uh, we don't pull from savings and we don't have a lot left over. We just have a budget to stay within. So we balance it together. If that answers your question, uh, we can see that we can see the finances together and we, um, we agreed on, you know, tithing right off the gross first. That's our very first bill goes back to the church and then we, we have the bills already set who pays what, and then we just, um, I, but I think, uh, like we need some new things for our house right now. It's like some fixtures. Uh, and so we have to plan for that. And, uh, so we've kind of planned together, especially on bigger decisions, but there's a little bit of flexibility, you know, she'll have a little bit of a budget, all the little bit of a budget. And if she sees a shirt she likes for the, for our daughter, she can, she buys it. If I see, um, something that we, that we need, I just prick it up as long as we stay within that budget. If that makes sense. Did that answer your question? Okay. Any other questions on finances or anything else? Microphone's still open. Got a few minutes, Kyla. No questions, Perry, Dennis, Eric. Oh no. I don't know about this one. Be nice. I want to know you guys, um, plan or perception for dating for your children. That's a good one. Never. I told this guy, we need to start praying for their spouse from like the time our first kid was like two days old. And he was like, I can't pray for her spouse. Don't even say that. You remember? Yeah, I do. I do. I'll be cleaning. I'll be cleaning my gun when he comes over to pick her up. And our poor son has four girls, four sisters to like, that's going to be fun. Well, we're, we're just, we're just about getting there, Eric. And, um, you know, I think as far as setting the dating standard, you know, you, you do set that early, you show them what they should expect, how a man should treat them or a woman, uh, why it's so important. We use opportunity opportunities to even say, now see why it's so important to find someone who loves the Lord. And, and, and so we're looking for opportunities to, but at some point, you know, they're going to have to make that decision on their own. Um, but if you're talking about what age to date, I think it depends on the person. Uh, we're not really big into dating, like just date, date, date, date, like, you know, it's, it's, they used to call it courting where you're going to invest into someone that you can see is, you know, someone you could end up eventually, you know, building a relationship with, um, and what those qualities are. So we're kind of talking with them already. I talked to my son, I just had to give him the talk a couple of months ago. Oh my goodness. I'm like, I have to do it four times. You can at least do it once. He just sat there silent, like, huh? Wow. Okay. That was, that was one of the hardest things I've done all year. It took me like an hour to get it out. I think you sent me a text before you were going to do it. I'm more nervous about this than I am about, I don't know, speaking somewhere. Something you said, yeah, it was funny. So basically we're arranging their marriages. Does that kind of answer your question? I mean, as far as, um, allowing them a showing them why a godly spouse is so important. Um, and, and I think at an early age you can say, no, we just, that's not a good idea. I don't think that relationship is healthy. I think it's a, you can, you can do that. You can help steer them until they reach that age where they will be making those decisions on their own. Yeah. Um, I mean, like right now for us personally, we, our oldest is 14, almost 15, and she's not allowed to have a boyfriend. Um, does she want one that vacillates, you know, sometimes she has asked when am I allowed and, and all of those things, but, um, we just don't see the wisdom in it right now. And so teaching her to keep her heart, um, pure and saved and like the verses, you know, don't awaken love before it's time. So no, you're not going to read romance novels and you're not going to be watching all these movies that are all about love and, and different things because that's going to awaken that desire. I mean, it's a God given desire and he puts it there to, to, to, you know, to want a spouse eventually. Um, so letting her know it's okay, you know, she's, she'll have a crush here and there or the other ones too. And, and that's natural and that's part of life and trying to keep that communication open. Um, but still saying, you know, there's going to be a time and place for that and that the time is not right now. So my seven year old still wants to marry me. So that's a positive. Um, and we have to remember not to listen to the world, you know, what, what's best for your family, not what your friends or their friends are doing or the world, even driving. There's some kids that shouldn't be driving at 16, you know, it's okay to wait another year or so. I mean, you don't have to just give them a, I should, I should not have been driving at 16. Amen. Oh, wow. Um, so any, any other questions on that topic or anything else? If you say real quick and loud and then I'll repeat it. How, that's a good one. How about chores for your kids and what age? We're actually working through that. Um, we're working through that right now. We're making, we have, you know, uh, charts, you know, who does this? When do they do it? Um, and we actually pay them a little bit for some things, uh, for cleaning up and, and the trash and some things they don't get paid for. Uh, I don't know how many of you saw that video where I put, um, all the vegetables cut up in the refrigerator. I have my, my, my daughter do that. I pay her like $10 for the whole week just to get those all ready and things. So we do that. I'm sure you have more input on that than me. Probably. I'm a big fan. Um, like he said, there's some chores that's just, you're part of this family. You're part of making this mess every day. So you're going to be a part of cleaning it up. And we don't get paid for that. But extra things, um, I think is good. Um, but yeah, I say the sooner, the better. Um, I think even, you know, a two or three year old can pick up their own little toys and then it goes from there. It is hard for someone who's more OCD or something to, to allow the kids to start doing it because they don't do it properly at the beginning. Um, but if you don't teach them early, then then it's just going to be an even harder road. So I would say to that mom or dad that has a hard time, just, just gotta let them do it. Just let them, you know, and don't fix it right after them. Cause then they're going to get all insecure about it. Um, fix it later. Or the next time they go to, to do it, tell them, Hey, let's try it this way. And just kind of, I messed up on that this week. Yeah, I wasn't going to say in the garage, he made that whole mess. I said, just let, I'll clean the garage. I'm like, Shane's going to vacuum the garage, all the sawdust. And he's like, I'm just told him I'm going to do it. I'm like, he needs to learn how to do it, but I want to get it right. You know, but I struggled with that, you know, with the dishes or with, you know, whatever. Um, but now they're like little pros and they know how to do it. I'm a little nervous for when we're empty nesters cause they're gonna be trouble, but there won't be the mess either. So we have one more time for one more, maybe two. Oh, Rebecca. I knew it was coming. Um, do you think at any point it's wise to reveal, um, think your current struggles or past struggles to your kids without feeling like you're giving them a ticket to do the same thing? That's a good one that just happened with me. I'm not going to give a detail just because I don't think it would be edifying for everyone, but I did have one of our kids. Um, they all ask different questions at different times. And one of them in particular had asked a question a few different times over the last couple of years. And I just kept avoiding it and avoiding it. And finally it was just like point blank straight to my face. And I had to give them the answer. And I said, and that is why you don't do it. So you never have to look your 14 year old in the eye and tell them what I just had to tell you, you know? Um, so I don't know that you have to give them everything all at once or even ever, but I, I do think there's some wisdom in, um, you know, if they're asking you straight up and, and they're wanting to be open and have that communication, I think, um, that you can give them a little bit and, and just kind of see where they're at and what you feel like the Lord would have you share with them. Um, and you know, it's, it's the age old thing. You want to tell them, you know, do as I say, don't do as I did. Um, and a lot of kids are going to have to learn on their own and learn the hard way. And some kids will learn from your example. Some kids will say, I don't want to do that because I see the mess that that, um, caused you. And then other kids are going to say, well, you did it. So, and, and that part you can't control, you know? So you just, um, I think it's, it's a pro it's, it's, it's kind of situation, uh, it's situational depending on what they're asking and will it benefit them with my kids listening to the sermons? They know a lot more about me than I want them to know. Uh, from my past abortion that I talk about to my past with alcohol and the party lifestyle. So they, they know it cause they hear it in the sermons. I'm not proud of it at all, but it is a good opportunity to talk to them about how I made wrong choices and how fortunate they are to have, you know, a church like this and to be loving the Lord at a young age. And so we kind of just turned it back. We turned that back on the enemy, uh, for sure, because he can, he can beat you up with your past. You don't want your kids to know. Um, but, um, I think it's, I think it's okay. You know, as long as you don't divulge too much and at the right time. And if they're, they're sincerely asking one more, Oh, Rhonda. Oh, Oh. Okay. So I just want to know your opinion on, um, when, and I know you're not there yet, but, um, when you have young adults still living at home and they're paying for their own phone, but you're trying to put restrictions on them. So what's your opinion on that? It's kind of like, well, I pay for it so I can be on it all day. And I don't agree with that. Well, I think if they're, uh, if they're staying in at your home, yeah, they live under your roof. Feel free to talk directly. Yeah, I'll talk, I'll talk, I'll talk to Sage, I'll talk to Sage afterwards. But yeah, I feel if, um, you know, like with, with your car, with your bills, if you're living underneath the parent's home and they're still responsible for you technically, financially, spiritually, um, I think it's okay for a parent to kind of regulate, uh, what the kids do in the home. That's part of living there. Part of the blessing of living there. So, uh, we'll talk to her. We'll set her straight. Thank you. Anyone else? Last one. Some of those things too are, are a privilege, not a right. Like I remember when, um, for instance, when, when we let the one kid have the one app that she wanted, um, you know, I was very clear that that app could be taken away at any time if, um, if it needs to be, and it's, it's not a right. You don't just get to have this just cause the world offers it. It's, it's something that is a privilege, um, as a reward for, um, either good behavior or just, you know, whatever.