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jcheinrichs
Member



Joined: 2006/1/25
Posts: 1


 Make it simple

Remember that Revelation was written to an uneducated people. Generally peasants and slaves, it was written for common man...not meant to be complicated. Everything should be taken literally inless it specifically says not to (and it does a few times).

 2006/1/25 12:18Profile
InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2764
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Make it simple

Welcome to SI jceinrichs, if you would, please take the time to give us an introduction of yourself in the [url=https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewforum.php?forum=13&2269]Welcome & Intro[/url] forum.

Concerning your post here, I'm curious how you came to the conclusion that the seven churches were uneducated. Also, I'm wondering how the notion that they were peasants and slaves fits in with this verse concerning the Laodicean church?

[i]because thou sayest--I am rich, and have grown rich, and have need of nothing,[/i] and hast not known that thou art the wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked,(Rev 3:17)

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2006/1/25 14:01Profile









 Re: Make it simple

Welcome jcheinrichs.

Hope you'll enjoy posting more here and benefit in some way. I don't know what your views are on the Revelation but I know what you are saying.

You'll definitely benefit from reading all the Classic Authors offered on the Main Site.

I understand what you are saying and yes, the whole N.T. was written that way ... in the Koine Greek (the "street language" of that day) instead of the higher dialect, Hellenistic.

I'm not into anything but "simple" anymore also.
After 30 years of hanging with folks who love deep debate, the Lord showed me the same thing ... "Come unto Me as a little child" ... so that must mean a little child can understand the N.T.. I Do believe that. Besides Jn. 16:13 added.


The "you say you are rich", does not have to be financially (and more than likely isn't, for the most part) ... but in these last days ... I also see where there are large numbers who believe they "have it" spiritually or because of the 'Mega-size' of their Church, but in "spiritual reality", they have nothing, they are "blind".

Sort of like, also ... "all talk and no action", where the "blindness" would come in. Why would ya put eye salve into a rich person's eyes ?
They seem to be spiritually blind, if we look at the whole of the warning, etc. to them.
Blessed are the Poor in spirit.


Anyhow ... Welcome and Enjoy the Classics offered here.

 2006/1/25 14:36
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re: Make it simple

jcheinrichs'

Quote:
Remember that Revelation was written to an uneducated people. Generally peasants and slaves, it was written for common man...not meant to be complicated. Everything should be taken literally inless it specifically says not to (and it does a few times).



This sounds like a good idea except for the fact that the beginning of revelation says this is not the way to interpret the book.“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and [u]signified[/u] it by his angel unto his servant John:” (Rev. 1:1, KJVS)...where the word 'sign-ify' is a brilliant translation of the Greek word 'semainO' which literally means to 'communicate by signs'. In other words the opening words of the Revelation tell us that this book is full of 'non-literal' information.

Ask yourself the question...
Do I believe that Christ is literally holding seven stars?
Do I believe that there are literally seven spirits before his throne?
Do I believe that there is a literal lamb with seven literal eyes and seven literal horns?
Do I believe in a literal beast which rises from the ocean?
Do I believe in a literal 12000 from every tribe of Israel with Dan omitted?

I will be interested to hear your answers. :-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2006/1/26 4:30Profile









 Re:

Awww Ron, already ? on the poor new guy/gal's first post ?

I wanted to hear his/her view on eschatology first.

I thought we're supposed to say 'Welcome' first and then nail their posts. :lol:


Oh well, Hope they come back, cuz now you and I are both made curious about this poor new posters views.


Come on back to sēmainō jcheinrichs', that you're not mad at us.


God Bless all too.

John 16:13

 2006/1/27 2:59
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re:

Quote:
Come unto Me as a little child" ... so that must mean a little child can understand the N.T.. I Do believe that.



I don't believe that. The New Testament is deep, It is often complex, It is full of many things which as Peter says, "Are hard to understand which the unlearned twist as they do the rest of scripture.

But the point of comming to the Lord as a "Little child" is to come not with a simplistic view, but to come simply to recieve from Him what we have no capicity in and of ourselves to obtain.

To understand the New Testament requires the very Spirit who inspired them. Our attitude should be as a little child toward the Lord in crying to Him to open up His Word, "that the eyes of our hearts might be enlightened, that we might know what is the hope of His calling and what are the riches of the glory of His inheritence in the Saints and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe."

To come to the Bible simply does not mean simplistically. It means with a simple heart attitude toward the Lord to open up His Word and to enable us to "comprehend with all the saints what is the length, breadth, hight, and depth and to know the knowlege surpassing Love of Christ."

A child like attitude comes to the Bible and crys, "Lord, I don't understand, I don't see this. Lord, show me. Enlighten me, enable me to see it".

"The soulish man does not recieve the things of the Spirit of God for they are foolishness to him, neither can he know them because they are dicerned spiritually"

A little child cannot understand the Bible. But a new born babe in Christ who has been regenerated and indwelt by the Spirit can.

To reduce the Bible to the level of children is to rob it of it's depth, it's intrinsic meaning, and it's genuine complexity.

A child can understand "God made everything and loves us." But a child cannot understand creation, the fall, the Old testament types, shadows, figures, and significance. A Child cannot understand redemption, sanctification, regeneration, and God's eternal Purpose. A child cannot understand incarnation, human living, suffering, death and resurrection in it intrinsic meaning. A child cannout understand the Hidden Manna in the Golden Pot in the Ark in the Holy of Holies. We need the Spirit for this.

It is the fallacy of many modern translations who believe if they can just make the language simple enough then people can understand it. But they cut off the fine edges, lose the signifigance and depth of meaning and fail to recognize that no matter how much you dumb down the Bible, It requres the Spirit's enlightment to understand it and that a babe with the Spirit can understand complex things and enter into it's depths.

In the end we all must come as a little child confessing that unless the Lord show us, we have no ability to understand. No matter our training, our degrees, our standing among men, we all must recieve from the Lord.

But to come simplistically believeing that" I can understand it because it is simple" is to take the opposite position and to assert our ability to know and comprehend the Bible without the Lord. It is to reduce the revelation of the Bible to our level and to deny the need for the Spirit's enlightment by grace to bring us into it's wonders and depths.


Graftedbranch

 2006/1/28 12:12Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 a funny comment

Quote:
I thought we're supposed to say 'Welcome' first and then nail their posts.


MeAgain, you made me chuckle!
Diane


_________________
Diane

 2006/1/28 13:47Profile









 Re:

Graftedbranc, Hi !

Can a little child claim this Scripture verse and be used of God to speak or learn ?

[b]Joh 16:13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into [u]All[/u] truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: [u]and he will show you things to come[/u]. [/b]

Looking forward to your answer.

Happy Hugs for everyone. And hopefully more chuckles too :-D .

A merry heart maketh good like a medicine, and I sure need some 'medicating' :-P .

8-)

 2006/1/28 15:36
Graftedbranc
Member



Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619


 Re: C

Quote:
Can a little child claim this Scripture verse and be used of God to speak or learn ?



A little child who is regenerated and has the Spirit within him can claim anything. The issue is not age but redemption and regeneration.

When He the Spirit of Truth comes" refers to regeneration and the indwelling Spirit.

Can a little child be regenerated? Of course. There is no age limit.

But the issue is not age but our condition and standing and whether or not we are regenerated.

The issue is that the Bible is not simple but complex and deep. And only by the Spirit can we enter into it's meaning.

Surely the Lord gives His revelation according to our capacity. And an 8 year old will not be recieving revelation on many things. But the Lord Himself at age 12 sat among the scholars and teachers in the Temple and amazed them by his wisdom and understanding.

If it were simple, there would have been no amazement. If by nature a child could understand it, then it would be nothing amazing about the Lord Jesus expounding the scriptures among the scribes and priests.

The Bible has milk for the "babes in Christ' but it also has solid food for those who are mature. To reduce everything to the level of milk is to rob us of the solid food.

Graftedbranch

 2006/1/28 15:43Profile









 Re: Also ....

I've seen that people frequently quote Peter's comments about Paul's "teachings".

If you read 2 Peter 3, the 'Whole' Chapter CLOSELY, you'll see that Peter is talking about Eschatology and is saying that folks were even messing with Paul's teaching on Eschatology ... (vs 16 "speaking in them of [u]these things[/u]")

Saying in the Greek that they .. "the 'unstable' .. "twist or pervert" .. unto their own destruction"

The Lord's definition of coming to Him as a little child wouldn't "do" what Peter says folks "do to the Scriptures".

A little child sits at the Feet of their Father, not having their own "ideas on things" and just listens as they read together.

And if they're stumped on something, they Ask the Father, what does this mean ?

If "brains" were needed, then you've cut off a 40 year old retarded man or woman.

It's "brains" that "wrest" the Scriptures, more times than not.

I gotta go now, it's Recess time, the bell rang and we got a new set of swings outside for me to play on.
Bye Bye for now :-D


Edited to add, you said """Surely the Lord gives His revelation according to our capacity. And an 8 year old will not be recieving revelation on many things."""

Oh my, where do these thoughts come from.

I'm sorry friend, but "consecration" is what He's looking for, nothing more, to fulfill John 16:13

Samuel was how old ? And that was before what Christ has provided us by His Spirit alone.

God BLESS !!!

 2006/1/28 15:52





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