to be clear, I love you brother and tho we may not always agree on the nuance of a thing, I nonetheless very much value your perspective and am personally blessed by your faith. We are all different members (organs) of the same body, as such it’s not unreasonable (to me) that the kidneys would have a different experience and therefore perspective than the liver, lungs, etc…
Having said this, my mind is renewed in the spirit of truth to the purpose of perceiving the Kingdom of Heaven. Everything else is viewed in contrast to the Kingdom from a historical perspective, so (for me) this whole Trump thing is a phenomenon that I can’t find a historical reference to use as a comparison (and I’ve looked honestly) yet the scriptures provide numerous historic situational comparisons that I simply cannot ignore 🤷🏽‍♂️
It’s not (for me) a comparison between persons but one of circumstance …
I don’t have a personal bias for or against anyone, rather my view or position is biased for the Kingdom of Heaven/cause of a Christ and against anything (knowledge/pretense) that opposes the cross of Christ. Yet even there my charter from God, the Holy one of Israel, is to do battle in the spirit on behalf of these persons who have been taken captive by the deceitfulness of Satan and his minions, having the gospel veiled from before there eyes. These are those whom, just like we all were, are in spiritual bondage brought forth by the lies of the devil. We have the remedy, the good news ✝️ and Trump gave place to that in a time that required either great grace or massive courage, either way I challenge everyone here on SI to find another historic figure in the past 1000yrs that had a comparable effect on the world at large as Trump has that didn’t either commit atrocities or was an obvious profitable vessel used directly by God to His own purpose? Since the former is (so far) off the table then the latter consideration gives me pause and requires me to hold my tongue in an assault or offering a distaste on the vessel God chose to execute His will here on earth in a most polarizing way …. 🧐

This man has literally been a friend to everyone except those who seek to corrupt and devour the last beacon of freedom left and bring it under the control of a godless group of pirates and plunderers. These are those whom oppose God openly and without shame seek to impose their depravity on us all by force of law and/or mandate. This man is the only person I’ve seen stand up to this and actually do something to reverse it. Perhaps the Lord couldn’t find anyone in the Church or in politics with the faith or intestinal fortitude to do that which needs to be done… or perhaps they were simply not in a position to effect the change required in the moment it is required?
In any case, I hope you understand that these discussions and even the debates are (for me) a healthy function of the body, if we are striving for unity. 😇

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Fletcher

Pence served faithfully and quietly in a loyal attitude in a steady and consistent manner. Trump praised him throughout s a good choice and a good VP. Now,because he wouldn't do what he could not legally do he is weak and ineffective?

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David Winter

/You put comparing Trump with Jesus in a sentence when nobody was comparing Trump with Jesus that's the problem./

WRONG again. I assume you can read or else chose to deliberately read over what another said comparing Jesus and Trump.

I brought up more than President Trump's immature and embarrassing tweets. There's his serial adultery also which he has not expressed an iota of sorrow or repentance over. If he had not dallied and paid people off then a lot of his present problems would not exist.To unbelievers, it makes the church and evangelical leaders as they are seen to just pass over these moral disqualifications. God can give a man a calling to do something and that man can fail or become morally disqualified and be removed from that calling. What if the Lord called Trump but then removed him for various reasons? Why is it that if someone even takes a look at Nikki Haley, Pompeo, Pence, DeSantis and others they are said to be committing a disloyal heresy of sorts against Trump. Watch how ugly mannered and insulting he will act toward others challenging him for the nomination. His act needs improvement and he needs to open his ears to what others have said to him unless they have just fawned over him and been afraid to tell him some needed medicine. He's a world beater for sure but he is narcisstically hard-headed.

I'm out of this discussion from here.

Blessings.

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David Winter

Hi Docs
Im not wrong again,you delibrately for the first time put comparing Trump with Jesus passive aggressively in a sentence.

Then instead of giving credit where credit is due on Abortion,Peace and economy or instead of highlighting the injustice of the witch hunt against him you highlight mean tweets and manners .Trump is not a Christian and I dont expect him to act like one.
The real problem here is that the people against Trump are being for no logical reasons are having their strings pulled by Principalities and Powers using false Prophets the media and politicians to do their work,
urs staff

Hi Docs
This is not true only CNN and friends say it was not legal and Pence did turn on him also after J6 which was a clear set up,urs staff

You are absolutely WRONG again or refuse to read.

I voted for President Trump twice. He got many many things done in a short period of time which drove the left and the media wild. There is a witch hunt against him. There always has been. But being grieved over his manners and childish immaturity many times and his serial adultery and the like is not being manipulated by the principalities and powers. Evangelical leaders are failing him if they don't point these things out to him.

Many false prophets assured us Trump would be sworn again as the next President in spite of Biden seeming to win the election. I'm sure you remember those false prophets.

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David Winter

Hi Docs
Its you that is refusing to read and also refuse to comment on my comments but inject stuff like

"Many false prophets assured us Trump would be sworn again as the next President in spite of Biden seeming to win the election. I'm sure you remember those false prophets"

I agree the people that prophesied incorrectly or falsely are absolutely wrong and should be avoided.Alot of people are quick to paint Trump as an adulterer without any real hard facts.(again he is not a Christian even if he has)

Anyone who is against Trump or attacks Trump over minor minor things like manners and doesnt give a fair account of him and his achievements are being influenced by false prophets who are under principalities and powers.
Trump is just a typical New Yorker when it comes to his manner.
When a guy went out on a limb to get rid of Abortion and generally help the right causes then I dont come at him for mean tweets.To me its even less than trivial.We should pray for him that God will help and protect him from the enemy and if its the Lord's will that he may be elected again and do further Good.It may or may not be his will,
urs staff

/Anyone who is against Trump or attacks Trump over minor minor things like manners and doesnt give a fair account of him and his achievements are being influenced by false prophets who are under principalities and powers./

Again, you obviously didn't read or chose to ignore my comments about his unmatched record of getting things done. So, I'm not under the influence of the devil.

Accusing him of unfaithfulness without any real evidence? I suppose he was just giving a gift of $140,000 to the lady so she would have a good day. And the other lady before that he paid off also.

I have been a part of the church for the last 50 years or so and have consistently been taught that character matters above all else in leaders. So they are effective and get things done and can do this or that. If they lack character they lack the one thing they need the most. Can President Trump perhaps express at least a small bit of humility to his supporters? Especially those of the church who have supported him. There hasn't been a peep of apology or repentance from his proud lips. He has openly humiliated his wife several times in this matter of unfaithfulness, but, by golly, he is effective so just leave off any mention of these areas. I don't buy it because of the church's influence and instruction to me over the years. Trump is not getting a free pass as many are giving him because God is obviously requiring it of him right now and he has only himself to blame (James 1:14). God judges each man impartially regardless of position, power, or stature. It's not heresy or being influenced by principalities and powers to be concerned about these issues. And there are other well qualified bona fide candidates without the baggage that it's not wrong to take a look at. If one doesn't vote for Trump (I voted ror him twice) this time around it doesn't mean they are Satan's agent. I haven't made a decision though but it's wrong to castigate people who may look around at other candidates.

/We should pray for him that God will help and protect him from the enemy and if its the Lord's will that he may be elected again and do further Good.It may or may not be his will,/

On this we totally agree. I've already been doing it.

Peace.

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David Winter

Hi Docs
On the main issue of this Post I think the Christian leaders who ask for prayer for Trump are correct.What to pray for is another question.If its the Lord's will that he be elected again I dont know but in general he has fought a great battle so far and for the most part correctly in amazingly difficult historic times,achieving things that were only dreamed off by Christians pre 2016.We all know that he is just a man and not anything more ,a great man perhaps but still just a man.Christ is the all.
I cant castigate Trump for what people sees as bad manners when I dont hold up anybody else to this high standard.
Nobody is telling anybody to vote or not vote for Trump that is your decision but if they did tell you its their right too tell you and your right to not listen to them.
Anybody can vote for other candidates such as Pompeo,Pence or Haley who all supported Trump in the past but only came to fore because of Trump not on their own steam.They are all too nice in my opinion to stop or slow down some very evil things.Their are some up and coming capable Christian politicians like Byron Donalds.It would be great to have a gung ho Christian in the White House.
Trump has shown great Character through the last 8yrs and I dont expect or would like for him to have his hands tied behind his back by left wing political correctness.I dont want to hear false humility and I know that I would not have been able to endure what he has endured albeit with alot of prayer support behind him.
The left wing media and judicary but not exclusively left are under the Principalities and Powers of Satan and anyone that listens to them with discernment can see this.They openly support Abortion,Gender equality and LGBQ and if they manage to tell the truth its only a half truth.Also they employ mass organised censorship as which was confirmed by the numerous twitter drops.
The Stormy Daniels issue is just unproven slander both the DOJ and the former prosecuter said that it was a nothing burger and she wrote a letter saying that they never had an affair.Also this was meant to happen in 1994 not 2016!

Your Qoute
I have been a part of the church for the last 50 years or so and have consistently been taught that character matters above all else in leaders.

Thats it Docs Trump is not a Christian and doesnt have to come under my/our rules and regulations,
urs staff

You wrote, “Why is it that if someone even takes a look at Nikki Haley, Pompeo, Pence, DeSantis and others they are said to be committing a disloyal heresy of sorts against Trump”

Because why would they even consider it?? does anyone honestly think any of these named could do what Trump has already done… on top of that, each of these individuals are established politicians and if history has taught us anything it’s that you can affect change by doing the same thing with the same people🤷🏽‍♂️

Ideologically, these people don’t have the MAGA doctrine as a native feature, which by disposition is squarely anti-establishment, as such they represent the interests of those whom they are beholden to for the station they’ve attained. Which is to say that in each case, they are bought and paid for by those whom put them in power. Notably, in contrast to this, Trumps donations were by percentage primarily from regular working class peoples, not mega-donors like the Koch bros, and various other organizations. The entire’16 campaign was run on returning power back to “the people” wrestling from the hands of corrupt politicians who had sold it off in the form of favorable legislation, grants, hiring/appointing, deferring prosecutions of crimes, etc…
Most notably, not a single individual you named ever mentioned much less exposed, shut down or prosecuted child/human traffickers even once before Trump took office…. 🤔 perhaps it’s because they know well if they had done so, they would’ve been treated exactly as Trump is being treated, if not simply killed. Remember when, through electronic docketing, a female federal judge had Epstein’s case assigned to her court, an assassin posing as a FedEx driver came to her home and executed her husband and child on their stoop…. and she hadn’t even publicly mentioned the case or contents…. Where is the outrage and wall to wall media coverage of this terrorist attack on our federal judiciary? Or of the subsequent investigation, arrest and trial ???
Surely if we can be tracked and traced to know if we’ve contacted someone with Covid then surely we can find this guy in our present surveillance state what with all the cameras currently deployed, perhaps the one in her door would provide a clue or two… and why haven’t we deployed this sophisticated network of surveillance to track and trace the child/human traffickers???

Who do you think is running this thing ? Who do you imagine is buying all these kids ?? And where do they all wind up??
On average, more than 500,000 children go missing in/from America each year, and all of your proposed candidates have been in office in power for years of not decades and have done what exactly??? I’ll tell you what, they have cowered and remained silent while countless children have been, kidnapped, raped, tortured, had their organs harvested as well as being made victims of satanic abuse through rituals. David, again I love you, but this is not a personality contest,… and f it were then any of your proposed candidates could easily (except pompeo) win mr/Mrs congeniality-
This (child/human trafficking) has been industrialized and is one of the largest, fastest growing industries for over a decade… so far as I’ve seen, Trump is the only one to stand up and do something about it, which by the way he was “tweeting” aggressively about this issue in the 2010’s decade well before he ever considered a bid for the presidency. So I’m asking you to consider it from Gods perspective, a kingdom perspective, complete with numerous biblical situational parallels,… which do you imagine God cares more about- the character of cowards or the willingness/faith of a man to take a stand against demonic principalities? Trump is the only head of state in American history to stand in the gap on this 💯 now ask yourself why that is…🤔

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Fletcher