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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : TRUTH IN UNRIGHTEOUSNESS

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Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 100


As far as the percentage goes O.P. is not alone.

Now I don't agree with all of Leonard Ravenhill's viewpoints. For example he had a old testament mentality of the prophet which doesn't translate exactly the same in the new covenant. Ravenhill was a Sinai guy primarily. Anyway my own experience is that very few in the churches that I've been in are saved. I think I posted in the bible reading thread that I did a poll of my own on how many show interest in the bible. It was close to 0% or 0%. If I had looked at every member in all the churches I've been in it probably would have been 5-10% at best. Just to clarify here this is my experience. Others experience may be different. I live in a liberal state so it may be vastly different from a conservative state/place.

To have no interest in the bible it would be safe to conclude that such persons are unsaved. See 1 Peter 2. Then we have to deal with the emergent church, man centered preaching (Babylon religion -> self promotion), false gospels, etc. There may be saved people in such places who are just temporarily led astray but realistically how much would that be?

Also I believe Paul Washer, R.C. Sproul, and Billy Graham have also made similar statements about the high percentage of unsaved people in the churches. Don't quote me on that I believe I had heard them say something of that nature.

When unsaved people become the majority in a church and gain control of a church would that church then become a false church?

Jeremiah 7 comes to mind. The temple there was once a place of true worship but became corrupted.

 2021/3/16 18:51Profile

Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 100


I think the issue here may be reforming vs coming out. When do you reform and when do you come out? I think that would be a good discussion.

 2021/3/16 18:59Profile

Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2130

 Re: He knows...

2 Timothy 2:19

Yet God's solid foundation stands unmoved, bearing this inscription, "The Lord knows those who really belong to Him." And this also, "Let every one who names the Name of the Lord renounce all wickedness."


"There are stars set in the heavens by the hand of God, whose light has never reached the eye of man; gems lie covered in the dark abysses of earth that have never yet been discovered by the research of man; flowers which have grown in blushing beauty before the sun, that have never been seen by the florist; so there may be Christians, made such by God, who are hidden from the knowledge of this world."
(John Bate)

 2021/3/16 21:00Profile

Joined: 2016/3/9
Posts: 251


As I reread your post, our Lord brings the word patience to my mind. As a young Christian I was very zealous for my wife to keep up with where I thought I was in our Lord! My actions, words, lacking agape love, and humility only drove a deeper wedge between us in Christ. So my attempts always backfired. She could not hear from one who honestly lacked love and humility concerning the things of God. Rightly so! Of course I couldn’t see that then.

Reminiscing back, had I been much in prayer with our Heavenly Father back then instead of in hundreds of books, on isms. Perhaps I could had seen what our Lord was doing spiritually in her life, instead of what I seen seemed wrongs. Then we both might had matured faster in Christ?

Like tonight, we had many wonderful conversations with each other. She also really wanted to listen too, and even learned something through God’s Holy Spirit through me! Concerning how me and her have to wait on our Lord for directions in what He wants of us.

Without spending much time in communion with God in three daily, I fear we handle God’s children roughly, and come across as “a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal." I know I did. We don’t realize it, we even think we’re giving our best! However we can only give our best when we are spending much time with our Father and allowing Him to fill us with His love, and the very Words He wants us to say to those we love. Those words could very well be a rebuke however we will only know for sure if we are constantly in communion with our Lord.

Added: if I stopped spending time in prayer with our Heavenly Father, I know I would go right back to being unloving/harsh to her, and the brethren around me I’m called to love sacrificially. We gotta abide in Christ.

Blessings in Christ brethren


 2021/3/17 0:57Profile

Joined: 2019/10/5
Posts: 100


Books, knowledge, and other such things are just neutral things in and of themselves. In fact I may be in error just saying that its neutral. Because my understanding is that knowledge is a prerequisite to wisdom. And if you don't have knowledge then how can you have wisdom. And if you don't have wisdom then what is the opposite of wisdom?

The question is not what you did? Its why you did what you did? Its the motive not the thing. Book reading whether its the bible or other books if the motive behind it is to impressive other people and to make selfish gains for oneself then that is bad.

One example, I was in a church where they had three prayer meetings going weekly. The individuals in each of those meetings would not go to the other prayer meetings. So it was basically three groups pitted against each other and they probably had their "leaders" for each of those meetings.

They were all praying. That is a good thing. But why were they praying? That is the real issue.

The same would apply for church splits. I think the verse Steve used from proverbs is a good one. Many splits are because people want to form their own church and steal members away from established churches so they can have power and influence.

Its not the thing its the motive. Is it selfishness or selflessness?

 2021/3/17 9:24Profile

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