Brother Sree,
Thank you for your reply. I do not even know where to begin to respond to so many comments that you have made. You continue to make a lot of assumptions and insinuate some awful things about others with whom you disagree. To suggest that they do not have the Spirit or may not even be born again is a terribly self-righteous and harsh way to attempt conversation with others.

All I can say is God bless you in your continued quest to follow Jesus. I am happy that you have found your home in this local church fellowship but if you are as harsh in that church with the brothers here on SI then you have some interesting days ahead:-)

My suggestion to you is to learn to listen to others without assuming anything about them. Let them disagree with you before you take their head off and write them off as you seem to do. You may not think this is the way you speak with others but I for one take it that way.

The reason I asked about your own "church" experiences was because I wanted to know how long you have been involved in your current "church". You did not answer that question or the other questions. I was simply trying to point out that there are others who have left traditional churches and are "in between churches" or whatever term you want to use. They may not be as lost or prideful as you assume. They may just simple be looking to God for direction. Can we not give them some grace in this matter or should everyone be meeting in a local church setting that meets with our approval at all times?

It may come as a shock to you Sree that there are many born again, Spirit filled believers out there who LONG for a local church body and they LONG for fellowship with others but they are unable to find it. I pray that you and others like you stop "beating" them and instead come alongside to encourage them.

Sree I counsel you to listen to this sermon by Carter Conlon that deals with this subject. It is called "Beware of the Angry Watchmen". This is a powerful message needed so desperately in this hour. The Lord is drawing His people out of the false babylon church system and they are milling around and confused and they do not know what to do or "where to go".

What they do NOT need is to see and hear a judgmental, "angry" boney finger pointed at them and to have condemnation heaped on them. Brother Carter addresses this very well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuAfKBLTz2M

Awakened. You get carried away by words rather than spirit. Since I do not agree with you, that going to a Church is a luxury, everything I tell here is awful. My humble advice to you is to be teachable. At least read and understand what I have written. All you care is whether I agree with you or not. If I do not agree with you then I am an accuser.

I am not angry with anyone here. In fact I have said that clearly in my post. I am only against how they loosely post on subjects like planting Church which is a mystery that only few can understand. You only pick certain words randomly and come to a conclusion. None of them including you can challenge what I have posted here using scripture. If you can then do that rather than empty talk.

More than you, I have encouraged people to keep praying about finding a local Body here. Why will I accuse someone who is in the process of praying to find a local body? This accusation of yours itself shows how you have not read any of my posts here, there is no truth in what you post. You only zip through to find if there is anywhere I agree with you.

I have given numerous examples including my own example on how to find a local body. I have also given practical check points to examine themselves. I see the moderator Greg agreeing with my post here. I know how Greg is a man who eagerly seeks a fellowship of believers. He was part of our fellowship when he was in US. Only one who values Church will agree with me. I do not care how those who have no respect for God's word find me harsh.

I know in what spirit I post than a person like you who does not even care to read my posts. Disagreeing with me is different but keep on accusing me without any scriptural proof is what you are doing. Judge yourself before posting anything about me.

I have asked you a single question 3 or 4 times here, in a teachable spirit. Not once you cared to answer. I do not think you even cared to read those questions. Like I said before, since I post the truth, I do not care how it feels to anyone. The Pharisees cannot stand the truth in Jesus, neither will all so called believers today.

If one searches for truth he will find comfort, if they seek for comfort they will find none. - CS Lewis.

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Sreeram

Hi Sree,
I will try to address some of your questions:

"Since I do not agree with you, that going to a Church is a luxury".

I do not know how you come up with this statement about me. I have not once disagreed with the view that it is absolutely vital that believers find their place in a local body of Christ. It is not a luxury it is a necessity. I think it is you who are rushing through the posts and not listening to others lol:-) I started this thread not because I disagree with every christian needing to be a part of a local church body, but because I am concerned about how they are to go about this. Many are trying and have tried but they find it difficult to find a good church (not perfect) that is not only biblical in its external structure, but also a pure expression of the body of Christ. This is much, much harder to find than most people understand. And its not just here in the USA but all over the world. So what are God fearing men and women of God meant to do? On the one hand they want to be in fellowship, they long for it, they are sick to their stomach from lack of it. But on the other hand, fellowship with a local body as described above is elusive. How should they conduct that search? And for how long? It is actually feasible that many have searched for so long that they have almost given up all hope. This is tragic and sad but why should we label and condemn them and state that it is their fault? We do not know their hearts and we do not know their circumstances. Many of these precious saints are surviving just by gathering with 2 or 3 from time to time. Some travel great distances. And in many of these groups there are no elders, no gifted brothers to help build the body. So it is a problem and not a simple one to remedy...at least not in this kind of discussion online.

[Edit: I think I found the other questions and have answered in the post below.]

Hi Sree,
I think I found your other questions from way back. If these are not the questions then resend them, thanks.

"Do you think God who purposed them to be part of His Body in a locality will not provide them one?"

Theoretically yes of course the Lord will direct every one of His children to a local body of Christ somehow, someway and in His perfect timing. It is the timing that might be tripping people up. When we do not believe that they are being led to that local body fast enough we may be tempted to say there is something wrong with them as in spiritually proud of whatever.

"If there is no such Church in their locality then God would have united them to another fellow brother or sister to start one (provided they had genuine burden). I do not believe God will isolate a genuinely born again believer to be The Only genuine believer in a locality and not make them meet anyone to fellowship with."

I think scripture disagrees with you brother. The Apostle John was isolated from a local body for a long time. Many who have been imprisoned have been isolated. Was this not Gods perfect will for their lives? Of course the vast majority of believers are not in such extreme circumstances, but there are millions of people who are alone in persecuted lands who do not meet in a visible church on weekly intervals. It is in fits and spurts and as the Spirit leads in many cases. Here in the west we are not in the same situation because we have much freedom but nonetheless it is not easy to find genuine believers who are willing to gather as a local body outside of the babylon false church system.

"God's plan for all his children to be part of a Local Church in a locality. If some are lost from this plan then either God should have missed to devise them in his plan or they should be wrong. I cannot find any other reason. I hope you can tell me one. I really want to understand what else could be reason. If you do not know one then the only logical conclusion is what I generalized most of them to be, Proud to fellowship with others. "

Brother Sree, it is Gods general plan for all His children to be a part of a local church body. But as we have seen above there are some (many) who are not going to experience this for some part or all of their lives. So while it is easy to conclude what Gods perfect and general plan is for all believers, it is not so easy to understand what an individual believer is going through at some particular season or time in their life. It is not helpful to stand on the sidelines and conclude with such certainty that they are simply too proud to be in fellowship with others. That may be the case and if so God will help them to see this and break them if they truly want to become more and more like Jesus.

But on that general note of "why is Gods will not playing out in our lives", I think the question can be extended to many other areas of our lives not just in this one area of why people are not in a local fellowship. Right?

Why are some people still angry, or overcome by lust or not receiving physical healing after prayer. Or why do some believers have problems in their marriages or problems with their children not walking with the Lord? All of these things are Gods perfect will for their lives but many are not walking these things out. Rather then heap condemnation on them for not being in Gods perfect will, let us encourage and build up and help others to enjoy all that the Lord has for their lives.

God bless you brother, have a great day!

Mark

Brother Mark, I really appreciate the detailed answer you gave. I cannot agree with all of your statement.

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Sreeram

Here are the reasons why I believe most of them are having huge delay in God showing them a body to be part of. You can call me judgmental, but I am willing to help people here. If you take your prejudice out and read them in right spirit, you will at least understand what I am telling here. Please consider what I am writing here. You do not need to agree. At least understand the spirit, it is not accusing spirit but helping one.

1. Have they left their current church because God's name was not glorified or because their personal name was not Glorified? In most of the case if they honestly answer there will definitely be cases of personal offence. I am saying this because I got more than 1 opportunity where I could get offended and become a wanderer. But God gave me grace to humble myself. I know it is difficult to stay in a closely knit fellowship. There will be several opportunities to get offended.
If they left the Church because they are offended then God will wait till they overcome the sin of getting offended. It is definitely not wise to lead them to another Church, because again they will get offended. Hence even long delay is acceptable here. But again the mistake is not with God.


2. Are they sincerely praying that God will lead them to a Church? Or they are quite content with staying alone. If they are content with staying alone then why will God disturb them? God's grace and mercy are only for hungry souls, not for those who are already satisfied.

I am totally fine if they are praying. But it is being content, imagining an universal body of believers is what I think is cause for any lack of action from God.

I already posted a thread itself on a group of people who took pains to see a local body planted in their locality. How many unchurched here can confidently say that they have taken such an effort? Let them answer to God not to me.

I think instead of we keep debating on this topic, it will be beneficial if someone who is currently unchurched tell us why they believe God is causing this delay. As far as I see, I did not hear even one testimony from such a person. But I am sure there are several unchurched people here, who will be cursing me for telling the truth! Instead why not come out and tell their side of story. Why not try answering the 2 questions I have asked for their self check.

I am really willing to learn from them. I am interested in either scriptural proof of justifying their unchurched decision or at least a real testimony that justifies their stand. But I hear nothing other than what people think is right and wrong.

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Sreeram

Hi brother Sree,
Thank you for your excellent responses, they are very helpful. Your own experiences sharing about the number of churches and the delays between each one are very common in the west today.

"1. Have they left their current church because God's name was not glorified or because their personal name was not Glorified? In most of the case if they honestly answer there will definitely be cases of personal offence."

You comments here are focused on personal offences and I agree with you. This is a babies reaction. Not everyone is like this though. Some are simply not welcome in many churches today because they stand for the truth. They are in a sense given the left foot of fellowship. Others are mistreated and misunderstood for other reasons and because the values and the standards are so different from the believer, they leave those churches. Now this is not an offence but more like shaking the dust off your feet. When this pattern occurs again and again it can make a person jaded, or cynical or even fearful. They can begin to wonder if there are ANY pure expressions of the body of Christ left in their area. Perhaps there are none but God will show them the way forward.

"2. Are they sincerely praying that God will lead them to a Church? Or they are quite content with staying alone. If they are content with staying alone then why will God disturb them? God's grace and mercy are only for hungry souls, not for those who are already satisfied."

Brother this ENTIRE thread is predicated on this fact that there are sincere God fearing people who are praying and crying out to God for fellowship. I have no comment about those who are content...lets leave that for another thread.

Regarding my own families circumstances. We held a house church in our home for a season which I paused until further instructions from the Lord. In the meantime we attended a traditional building church. We did this for a season but in time we came to see the same things that beset so many churches today which have slipped away into the babylon false church system. So we stopped attending this church three weeks ago. Now we meet as a family and seek the Lord together but we are in no way content with this arrangement.

Please pray for us and for all those who find themselves in a similar predicament. Some people are so confused about all this that they run to and throw and uproot their families and run here and there looking for a church body. Others are waiting on the Lord and listening to His voice and for His further instructions.

As far as those who are bitter and angry with "the church" or are lukewarm and complacent...I have no comment and do not wish to get into that on this thread.

I hope this has answered your questions and want to thank you for sticking this out with me. I truly appreciate your heart brother Sree and your love for the Lord and His church.

Brother Mark, I really appreciate your personal testimony. I value personal testimony a lot from every person whether I agree with them or not. Even if they have failed, we can still learn something from their failure. I will respond to your posts in multiple phases are I find time. The need for response is to show how much I have learnt from your experience and also to value what you have written.

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Sreeram

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Sreeram

"One prayer that I pray which I inherited from my elders is, 'Lord please bring any person who wants to live a God fearing life in our midst. If not take us to such a person. If you are willing to do none of these 2 then show us where we are lacking'."

Amen this is wonderful, thanks for sharing and yes I agree that God will answer our prayers.