Joh 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?

In many tightly controlled circles there is what is called an " echo chamber.' This is where ideas and teachings are transmitted and amplified and no dissenting view is allowed or accepted. Some may call it strong leadership, others can clearly see it for what it is, but obviously not those within the tightly controlled group. In the best case scenario men and women are simply locked into their own little world where no other view is accepted. The worse case scenario is that a cult is formed whether large or small. Who are susceptible to the echo chamber scenario? Typically it will be those who were raised in very tight conservative circles and who have been taught to fear the " outside." Or on the very opposite scale there is the extreme charismatics who appear very different from the extreme conservatives but their motivations are exactly the same. Those who have very low self esteems, who do not realize that they are children of the living God but have been taught that God is an angry God just waiting to fall upon them at their every failure are very susceptible to these men who honor one another but who do not seek "the honor that cometh only from God."

Now who are these men who seek to control people and set it forth as a virtue? They are men full of pride and vain glory as the old saying goes. Their ambition is worldly honor. They typically do not work and seek to be supported by others. They set their hearts upon receiving glory from other men within the confines of their own circles. They seek to add to their circles by using flattery. They flatter others in an effort to receive flattery back. They make the praises of men their idol. "For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do for to be seen of men: they make broad their phylacteries, and enlarge the borders of their garments, And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues, And greetings in the markets, and to be called of men, Rabbi, Rabbi. But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren." (Mat 23:4-8)

There is a beautiful freedom in Christ. The enemy of your soul hates this freedom. He wants to see you in the chains of legalism. He wants to hear you cry out " Oh wretched man that I am." He sends out his emissaries to try to rob the children of God of their freedoms. "And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
(Gal 2:4-5)

Beware of such men brothers and sisters. Do not give place to them " no not for an hour." As the days grow darker all manner of attacks shall come against the Body of Christ but we know this, that greater is He that is in us than He that is in the world. God loves His children with an everlasting love. His thoughts towards you are more than the sands of the seas. We know that the gates of hell shall not prevail against His Church, praise God. Heb 5:14 "But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil." It is absolutely vital, as we enter the dark days that are upon us, to be able to discern good and evil. This comes through the baptism of the Holy Spirit so that we can be led and guided into all truth. To know the Word of God and be a lover of the truth is vital in discerning the schemes of the wicked one. May the Lord bless the saints in these ever-changing days. Praise God, His word never changes........bro Frank

Thank you for sharing this with us Frank. Really appreciate what you shared. The days are short and GOD is sifting the people, those whose hearts are sold out to HIM will cling to HIM and those who aren't sadly will fall away.

Praying always that people would see JESUS.

God bless
Mj

Thank you Mary Jane, God is indeed sifting and separating..............bro Frank

My brother,
I have pondered, at length, prayed at length, grieved at length, all that you wrote in this post.

Yes! I do grieve, though I am nothing, I know that I know, the deposit of the Holy Spirit resides in me, therefore though I may seem to man of little account, I know Messiah Jesus and I love Him. I know and hold the LORD, God of hosts in reverential awe, which is the long way of saving, I fear God.

I said that to say this; if anyone thinks that I have some spirit of "elitist religious pride", because I don't get the same warm fuzzies, when I consider 2,000 year's of church "history", they adjudge and accuse me wrong, as I believe you, brother, have been adjudged wrong, by unburdening what God the Holy Spirit has laid on your heart to prophesy.

I don't base, what I just wrote, by a mere reading of your writings, but the hours upon hours of Godly fellowship we have spent on the phone...knowing each other NOT of the flesh, but in the Spirit, quiet reasoning, and no arguing.

why is that?...its called "CO-submission. That is what I believe is missed, when the word "submission" is bandied forth among some of the saints.

i'm sure you heard when Duncan Campbell, when he re-counted how little Donald MacPhail, a lad of 16, accompanied him to meeting, where many stood in opposition to Duncan's message. Duncan found nigh to impossible to preach, glanced over and saw this wee lad's head bowed, and the floor wet with his tears, and as Duncan FREELY admitted, he realized that boy was nearer to God he was, and Duncan said, "My dear people, we got to be honest"

I've heard Duncan say this MANY a time, "My dear people, we've got to be honest", and it was usually in conjunction with Duncan yielding the "pulpit", or some disturbance in his own soul, where he would survey his own heart condition to be found wanting, such as when confronted by his daughter Sheena at 5 in the morning, asking Duncan after 17 years in the "pulpit", or as Duncan put it, "wandering for 17 years in a barren landscape, Sheena kneels at his feet, and asked this dear saint, "Daddy, when was the last time you knelt beside a poor sinner and led him to Jesus?"

Now this honest loving question left Duncan completely undone. If he has been a man of religious "pride and ego", he might have cuffed her about, or "rebuked" her for her audacity to DARE question the "great" Duncan Campbell...but no, in his testimony, he said, "my dear people we've got to be honest"....Sheena was right, he had grown cold, and by the numbers, so distraught that he sought that Lord that night face down in his study, weeping, crying out to God with such intensity, Sheena came in to pray with him, because she thought he was "going mental".


Duncan was undergoing the DEATH of "religious pride and ego", and resigned his pastorate within two days to go BACK and serve God as he was called.

lets go back to Duncan and young Donald Mcphail, Duncan saw this boy was nearer to God, than and said this, "I find it difficult to preach, I want you to pray."...and Donald rose to his feet; I heard this YEARS ago, and Jesus had me cut a "comp" about that night in the Hebridean islands....here it is, May it bless you and all the brethren:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=5675

(Lord bless you brother Greg, for putting it in the compilations)

my brother, I could take quotes of what you written to highlight and amen them. I amen the post, and it brought to the point of "who are the men of God, that have helped shape me in Christ?"

there are four, Duncan, David Brainerd, Len Ravenhill and Frank Bartleman.

I praise God, and am eternally Thankful that God the Holy Spirit led me to such human vessels, because they all share an attribute I know is crucial for these times; it is death to flesh,and death to religious pride and ego. humble, sometimes lonely, beset at all times by a Godly burden, steeped in prayer.

that is the mark I aim for...Help me Lord.

in closing, I encourage you my brother, speak in the strength you've been given, and lets pray we both can weep between the porch and altar....time grows short, God love you and all the saints at SI, neil

Thank you brother Neil. Many are the accusations the saints have endured down through the ages by a robust religious spirit, tis an honor for me to be in their ranks.

This religious pride and ego that took Duncan 17 years of desert wandering is found in many places. His brokenness of spirit was a necessary journey if he were to be used and of course he was used mightily. All men of God must be broken otherwise pride shall reign and accusation of the saints shall be the order of the day.

I think of the young men down in the " Church of Wells," as a good example of how pride can turn to cult. They came from a " conservative," background where the emphasis was on strong leadership. Any dissenting voice was always ignored or crushed. About six years ago, before they had their " church," I spent about five hours one evening with one of the two young men who founded that gathering. In his pride and arrogance he withstood any counsel. He claimed he had already been broken at the age of 24. How many young men I have met who have thought they have been broken, and I think in my spirit " you have no idea."

You write........

"I praise God, and am eternally Thankful that God the Holy Spirit led me to such human vessels, because they all share an attribute I know is crucial for these times; it is death to flesh,and death to religious pride and ego. humble, sometimes lonely, beset at all times by a Godly burden, steeped in prayer."

Praise God brother. And Duncan saying " lets be honest." Honesty in our character is above all. The hypocrite pretends to be one thing while he is quite another. He shows a face to the world but has another face which he keeps quite hidden. He speaks in pious tones as to impress others but his spirit is a spirit of accusation. He will try to repress this spirit but it shall always come forth for the enemy of our souls is, at his very core, the accuser of the brethren.

Yes brother, I pray with you that we shall be found weeping before the porch and the altar for the time is indeed short and all those who decide to stand upon the truth, regardless of fear or favor, shall face increasing persecution. Yet, God sustains His own, praise the Lord. The man of God has an inexhaustible well of joy and peace and strength and power by the Holy Spirit. The man or woman of God, at his or her core is an overcomer because they know intimately through baptism in the Spirit, the one who overcame. The religious man has only his own resources and that which he can take from others............bro Frank

Hi Appolus

I really apreciate alot of what you have wrote here. in my own journey of being broken I have had to face many fears, humiliation and trials. i am still being broken in areas of my life that still hold onto earthly things. for me the biggest hurts have come from christians as i least expected the attacks. I see the "normal Christian sterotype life" and i use to wonder why God kept me from this at first i thought that i was cursed or God didnt love me enough or i wasnt doing enough but now i know that he wanted me to serve him and not man. i have noticed that other christians that are and have been broken share a unity in their relationship with God.

i am not for or against current christian structures in church sense but i myself search for truth and submission to christ where all the people are used by God equally and yet in the way that God reveals himself individually in each person. I have seen this a couple of times in my life but not often and it was in these settings that people where broken on their knees weeping before God and God blessed and moved among us. which was oposite to a meeting where pride and religious spirits ruled.

_________________
karl rashleigh

Hi Crusader,

You write..........

" I see the "normal Christian sterotype life" and i use to wonder why God kept me from this at first i thought that i was cursed or God didnt love me enough or i wasnt doing enough but now i know that he wanted me to serve him and not man."

Amen brother, God loves His own and He hides them under the shadow of His wings. He loves you too much to allow you to live a religious life but rather wants and desires you to walk in intimate relationship with Him. Unfortunately or fortunately this will bring attacks from the enemy usually from other " believers." Light exposes darkness. Darkness hates the light. Men would rather do their deeds in darkness yet the mere light of Christ, shining through His saints, exposes the dark deeds of the heart in others. That is why it can be so confusing to God's children when they are attacked because they clearly did nothing to warrant an attack.

Yet, this is the unseen battle. We know that the Scriptures teach us that we do not battle against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places. These powers detest the freedom that you have found in Christ. You were once a captive but you have been set free by Jesus Himself and He whom the Son sets free is free indeed and no man nor power can bring you into captivity although they will try and keep trying.

You write..........

" I have noticed that other christians that are and have been broken share a unity in their relationship with God."

Amen brother, it is true. This has been my experience over 25 years. It is a wonderful thing to share the intimacy that we have with God with other like-minded brothers and sisters. It is an instant bond, there is a witness in our spirits of the Holy Spirit that unites us in Christ. This has been one of the most thrilling discoveries I have made as I have travelled the world and met Christians from every kind of background. Right along with that there can be instant enemies made because of jealousy.

Jealousy of what one might ask? Of this intimacy with God and with other genuine saints. The religious man detests this. When Saul heard the people speak of David favorably, he despised him in his heart and from that moment sought to kill him. When David entered into genuine worship before Saul, Saul through a spear at him. When David danced unashamedly before the people his wife, with the same spirit as Saul, detested him.

Brother, when you are part of the " fellowship of the burning heart," as Tozer used to put it, you will find enemies enough. When soldiers fight together in a fox hole, their is a bond that takes place that is unique and lasts a lifetime with extreme love and loyalty. They would literally " take a bullet," for each other. It is the same with those who have been broken by God for this life and who have entered into intimacy with Him. They recognize each other and it is a beautiful thing.

You write..........

"i am not for or against current christian structures in church sense but i myself search for truth and submission to christ where all the people are used by God equally and yet in the way that God reveals himself individually in each person. I have seen this a couple of times in my life but not often and it was in these settings that people where broken on their knees weeping before God and God blessed and moved among us. which was oposite to a meeting where pride and religious spirits ruled."

Yes indeed brother, there are meetings where all are in submission to Christ first and foremost and where any saint that God has gifted and chooses to use can be used. Religious men hate this above all things. They fight it tooth and nail because of their own bondage to religion and a controlling spirit. You are right, where pride and a religious spirit dwells, you will not find the Spirit of God and the presence of God. God is either preeminent in gatherings or He is not.

God bless you Crusader. Your walk might be a lonely one, as it can be for many genuine saints, but better to have the company of God first and foremost, like Enoch, than to have the company of men and not know God intimately...........bro Frank

brother Frank and other brethren,

recently on this forum, especially when I asked with a clear heart, "what would "Remnant" ecclesiology look like", I have noticed two words being used as a spear, they are "spiritual elitist", because a saint has a differing call from others who feel comfort within denominational churches.

to ACCUSE another of "spiritual elitism", is not only unloving, bordering on hate, its just plain wrong.

should I link up the MANY "spiritual survivor" blogs I have seen and read the sad testimonies of those so abused by cruel human manipulations?

its just hurts too much to write and try to reason on this forum anymore, because the promise of such is great, and I feel in some instances squandered. there is no greater tragedy than promise squandered.

heavy hearted, neil

-quote-
its just hurts too much to write and try to reason on this forum anymore, because the promise of such is great, and I feel in some instances squandered. there is no greater tragedy than promise squandered.

heavy hearted, neil
-quote-

Why are you heavy hearted Neil! I have seen you post many things over the years to a very emotional extreme whereby you would come back later and apologized!

I have read many of your writings as well as Franks' and must say that you both are very gifted writers. I as well as others agree with much of what you both have written.

It seems though as of lately and in a recent thread that unless everyone agrees with everything that you and Frank agree on about coming out of all denominations that those who disagree are in error.

It seems to me that Frank has an agenda that you also agree with, that you both have received inspiration to teach others, that in order to be a part of the last day remnant that everyone must come out of all denominations.

It also seems to me that Frank (which I do agree with much of his writings also) considers himself to function as an apostle to the point that people should follow his teachings as he follows the Lord.

Here is the problem- that y'all can't be satisfied to agree to disagree that some do not believe that God is leading them to leave the denomination they are in. You refuse to believe that God can use them maybe even greater than he is using you both in His Kingdom.

The problem is when one receives much inspiration there is also the tendency to instruct others to the point that they can't disagree with the inspiration that you have received.

You see brother if we are going to be effective in the kingdom of God we must learn to get over the fact that everybody is not going to see it like we do and that we are not going to always be right over others who disagree with our inspirational understanding.

Anyway, blessings to all!

Hi RBanks,

I have never called for any person to leave any church at any time. Take the last thread. The post was about denominations not being Scriptural. I will not use this thread or any other to settle past disagreements. If the notion that denominations are not Biblical is too offensive for some and they disagree then I have no problem with that, nor do I have a problem defending my position. I have not resorted to the name calling that Neil highlighted and I will not. Rather than accuse someone or talk about feelings someone has, perhaps a quote would be more in line. I have written over 600 articles on my own site which used to be tagged below, anyone can go there and see anything I have ever written and can quote here for all to see to back up any accusations they may have.

As for having an agenda, this is what Greg has said also and apparantly the moderators agree with him. I have been asked not to post and was told that people with agenda's in the past have had their accounts deleted. So if you do not see any more comments from me you will know why :) I will oblige the moderators and refrain from posting.

I feel sad about it no doubt but this is Gregs site and he gets to say who posts and who does not and the nature of the posts................bro Frank