Thank you Jesus-is-God for offering your reflections. I admit, I am not particularly adept at differentiating the elements of the dark forces whether they be spirits, demons, forces, - and where they locate. On the other hand, it has been vital that I learn to distinguish whats of God and whats not - what is Holy Spirit Conviction and what is Satans accusation. The remedy for each is vastly different.
And by "touch" that's a limited power granted the enemy.
To say that anyone finding faults in JPL's book are "quenching His Spirit and have deceptions planted by the enemy" is going a bit far.
It may be that those who opposed JPL, justifiably or not, were also quenching Gods Spirit!
The LORD will not co-habit with devils.
_________________Diane
A preacher once gave this caution: If we claim that God and the Bible are enough we are merely depending on our own interpretations and asserting our own autonomous rule.
I wish I could trace it back, so I could word it better. Actually, I've heard the idea a few times. The word "lone ranger" is typically used. I've tended to balk at this idea, being a bit of a "lone ranger" type myself. But, then I can accept the possibility of a superficial piety - masking autonomous pride. Diane
How I've always been led to see it is, that we'll stand "alone" before GOD one day and have to give an account for what we believed and that He will not accept if we say that we acquired our false beliefs from some Pastor or teacher or anyone else on earth. That we're fully accountable to His Word and The Spirit of Truth that was promised to guide and lead us individually into truth. We're individually accountable for what we believe - and as I quoted that above - I realized that type statement is what came from Rome, way back when and from cults today, as well.I'm surely not a lone-ranger but I surely do feel obliged to not blame anyone else for any false beliefs that I hold on to, when I face Him.Thank you for answering!
I'm concerned with the terminology, Diane, of that you felt the need to use these terms, "expel", "expulsion", and "cast it out".If only we as true Saints realized that no enemy can touch us without His permission and His will. And by "touch" that's a limited power granted the enemy.
_________________Lisa
Matt 1:23 says that in THEIR synagogue there was a man with an unclean spirit. So while Jesus was in church there was a man with an unclean spirit. I have not read anywhere where Jesus made the man get saved before he cast a demon out of him. Have you? WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT JESUS DID NOT DEAL WITH THE MAN; HE DEALT WITH THE SPIRIT IN THE MAN. (v32-34) Jesus never told those He cast demons out of that they had to be saved, that is nowhere in Scripture. No, He just took authority over them and healed and cast out!!
Christians CAN BE DEMONIZED; in all types of depression, fear, pride, jealousy, addictions, explosive anger, etc, Demons entice, harass, torment, compel, enslave, defile, deceive and weaken the Christian. Its a crying shame that Christians who are being demonized cant find help IN THE CHURCH b/c the church or people in the church are telling them they cant possibly be demonized, that theyve got to get born again instead of just doing the Lord's work and casting out the demon(s).
I'm sorry that I don't agree with the teaching of men on this issue. I was "into" Derek Prince and those who teach that Christians have demons that need to be "cast out" the first 4 yrs that I was saved .... but I Thank GOD for some Pentecostal Missionaries that taught me from The Word alone
Many of those who go through these 'deliverances' find that they need to keep going back for more because they're believing a lie in the first place by giving Satan more power over Christians than what he truly has and they begin to blame so much of what they experience on demons and back they are, asking to be 'delivered' again and again.
He will not accept if we say that we acquired our false beliefs from some Pastor or teacher or anyone else on earth.
Quote: """Demons "enslaving" Christians? How could that be unless the 'christian' is backslidden?"""What is a backslidden christian? Not Heb 6, that is a conformation of those in Christ that cannot fall away, for if they could it would be impossible to renew them to repentance, which only God can give, "impossible" which is not for the Body of Christ, His Church. "We are persuaded of better things of you." Those that are in Christ and Christ in us. Can we be unbirthed?Either we are a Christian or we are not. If I am blaming Demons for my sin, It is because of mans religion. If Christ is birthed in the believer how can darkness live in the Light. We must enter God's rest, and believe, His Faith in us is our rest, If we don't have rest, we are depending on our works of faith to make us right before God and anyone blameing Demons is deceiving himself. Any Demon can never make us sin, we might be tempted but the choice to sin is ours and ours alone. "Carried away by our own lust", If we maintain our knowledge of the Christ that is in us and believe He is the only one who can set us free, the things of earth will grow strangely dim.Read tuc's letter in "scripture and doctrine" thread on true repentance of Hudson's taylor's letter to His sister, first post on repentance thread.It is our unbelief that keeps us in tourment, not Demons or Demon posession, which is impossible for a Christ Person, Jesus defeated Him completely for His body the Church of whom He is the Head. Presenting to Himself a chaste and perfect, no spot or wrikle to Himself, His Bride, the Body of Christ, His Church of whom we are One in Him.In Christ: Phillip
_________________Phillip
Hi Phillip, Unbirthed is not the correct term as Paul talks about a person who is now the enemy of the gospel and he says it with tears. we can be dead to the truth but Gods grace will continue to call us back to be resurrected.Derek Prince was a lovely old english man who had a particular view of the end but also had a ministry in deliverance.I support his ministry but first I must say that there is much that I agree with you on. Nothing can take us out of the hand of God however we never loose our free will to rebel until possibley there is a time when we hand over our will. My experience is that Christians can open a door to oppression and possession through deliberate rebellion to Gods known will, be it known or a deliberate ignoring of the conscience. If this is a consistant life style then possession is highly possible. Trust me please on this.Having tasted of the heavenly gift, I do no believe this is salvation. As you mention the bride of Christ is without spot nor wrinkle could this be a differnt state to salvation. In Rev 12 we see a woman clothed with the sun who later gives birth to a child after her marriage. Then the antichrist having failed, and yes it is the dragon not the antichrist per se, however after the woman goes into the wilderness, the antichrist turns on and kills all those who still hold to the testimony of Christ.Could it be those that taste of the heavenly gift are of the woman company? I have known men who were definitely saved and spoke in tongues who later fell. One of which ran hard drugs for a time and was armed. My experience says that christians can definitely rebel. I have known of a man that after being totaly backsliden for 10 years,that after being out with the hells angels the night before had the option of doing a robbery to get cash for drugs or as it was Sunday morning going to church to see if the Bride of Christ was starting to form. Forgive my doctinal difference on this issue however he destinctly heard "My grace is suffient for thee" after twice telling the Lord he was only there to take the temprature of the church - sanctification, he then said "yes I know your grace is sufficient for me". At that point those words entered his heart with the belief that God would take that rotten scoundrel just the way he was to rework him like the potter with the clay.I know this is a true story because that rotten scoundrel was me. That was thirty odd years ago.Your point about blaming demons is a really good one as we want to blame others until we become culpable or honest about ourselves. This does not preclude opening our lives through dissobedience to demonic torment. I stress this as there is a version of Christianity that refuses that the devil exists, that hell exists etc. I do understand the view point that you support however Presilla and Aquilla came to a man that was known to be mighty in the scripture - Apolus. They shared the word with him and brought a greater depth to his understanding. From my experience in God I hope I have brought some additional understanding. By the way you have something special in understanding of Gods rest may I encourage you to continue to study it as there is great revelation there.Kindest regards Oskar
_________________Oskar Abley
