I am very worried about the direction my church is going. I am seeking help and God's will - to know if I am in error, or if my church is in error.

I tried posting a sermon on here a few weeks ago, but due to forum rules, my post was deleted because I linked to an mp3. At any rate, I still have the mp3 available, but I will only be able to send it to people who Message me.

To basically give a quick overview of the message. The topic is "DNA of a Difference Maker." We've been going through a series of "Being a Difference Maker" - which essentially means, making a difference in other people's lives. That's all well and good. One of the latest sermons talked about David and Goliath. We went over several points, and this is our central verse:

Romans 8:37
"No, in all these things we are more than 'Difference Makers' [conquerors] through him who loved us."

(Yes, he really changed the words to Difference Makers, but then said, it might say 'conquerors' for you)

Key points:
1. It's in you - Each of us have the spirit of a difference maker. We can rise above the ordinary. When we understand Jesus says we are, there is nothing we cannot accomplish.
2. The DNA of a Difference Maker - David was a great difference maker.
2a. Humbly Dedicated - I am going to do what's necessary.
2b. Prepared - David was ready when he walked into that situation with Goliath. He was prepared to act and do great things for God.
2c. Great Faith - Understands and believes the word of God. Believes God will do what he said he would do.
2d. Victory is a done deal - You don't have to worry about it, Jesus said it, so it's a done deal.
2e. Speak to the Situation - David spoke to Goliath, not about Goliath. So he had victory.

In addition, in the latest sermon, he gave the following story (most transcribed word-for-word - I tried to keep the context intact):

I believe GOD honors His Word and keeps His promises.
I believe we need to realize and understand who we
are in Christ and know our position in Him.
I also believe GOD is far greater than the circumstances
and situations we face.
That said, I don't speak to the situation; because I'm
not in charge and it is not in my hands !!
I believe GOD is working in the situation and can
use the situation to bring about His purpose and will.

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Martin G. Smith

"Speak to the Situation - David spoke to Goliath, not about Goliath. So he had victory" MetiCipher

I guess I don't see it quite the same way. First of all David was speaking to a person, Goliath. Secondly, God had prepared David many years in the wilderness (as a shepherd) for this battle. God gave the victory, not the words David spoke. The same with Joshua and the trumpets, God crumbled the walls, not the trumpets themselves. In the prelude up to the moment where David confronted Goliath, I see it more important how God prepared David for the battle than the battle itself. I don't see this battle won through simple methodology, but won in the years of faithful and patient preparation between God and a chosen vessel.

Hi there

Your post resonates with me as I have concerns over this type of teaching also. Many of my friends have DVDs of WoF preachers and teachers. If I dare question them it leads to an awkward debate I usually give up on because it becomes acrimonious.

We must also be careful we don't end up judging these people. We can assess their teachings, but only God knows their heart and we mustn't misinterpret what they are saying.
If you search the forum you will find a host of threads dedicated to this topic. They may be years old now, but they contain a wealth of truth which you may find helpful.

Considering your post I would say that the sermon misses the point of Romans 8:37. The apostle is talking about believers being conquerors over sin (through Christ) and the trials that come with being a follower of Christ. The verse is not about making a difference in other people's lives. The latter is not untrue, just not the focus of this verse.

I personally find that WoF becomes cultish, like a works based religion e.g if you just believe it will happen. If you do this then this......
Really, it's nothing new. Just a new form of error appropriate to a prosperous period of human history (well, for the West anyway)
WoF works well if your goal is to boost your self esteem, prosperity, health etc. These things are likely to happen anyway in a prosperous nation were healthcare, investment/ employment opportunities and a semblance of moral values exist. But the real joy of Christianity comes from the knowledge deep in our souls that our sins are forgiven and we are new creations with eternal life in Christ. This begets in us a desire to tell others about Christ as well as show charity and love to our fellow humans. It is all from Christ though. In and of ourselves we are nothing.

God's will may be to prosper us, heal us...... whatever, but this is not promised in scripture and shouldn't be taught as such. Picking a verse here and a verse there and creating a doctrine out of it is highly dangerous. This is what WoF ministers tend to do and is why it is sometimes difficult to discern truth from error.

There is plenty of power in the WoF message, but little or no spiritual power because although sin, Christ's substitutionary death and resurrection along with our sanctification are mentioned, they are not the emphasis of the message, but more a side issue. This is wrong and often fatal.

We should pray earnestly for people caught up in this and be discerning when listening to preachers/teachers. We must also remember the grace God has shown to us and reflect this grace to others in our questioning. I think you've shown this in your post.

In Christ

David

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David

Hi MetaCipher,

Is your church part of a denominiation?

You're absolutely right to be concerned. I've just discovered that the leadership of the AoG in the UK is going this way. Right up at the top, they are recommending books by people who have departed from the biblical faith, and have found ways of circum-navigating the cross of Christ.

I listened to a few minutes when you first posted the link but the thread was deleted before I could respond. The preacher lost me when he said, "Turn to the person next to you and say..." That is a form of crowd manipulation known as "auto-suggestion." Everybody hates when preachers do that but they do it anyway. The message is no better or worse than the man-centered gospel we hear at just about any evengelical church in America: a Bible-based self-improvement course, "How to Take Charge of Your Life," Christian Dianetics.

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Wayne Kraus

hi, like all things ;eat the fish and spit out the bones. the bible says that we are healed by the stripes of Jesus.it also says if you have the faith in his word you will have what you say.look at rom 10 9,10 for salvation. look up the greek for salvation[sozo] and see what it includes.what are we to say... the opposite no...jimp

This is a very New Age teaching. The New Age teachings are rampant in the church today. I would suggest that you distance yourself from these teachings before they take root in your own life. God's Word is what all our beliefs should be based on. Anything that does not line up with the Word is not of God.

Warren Smith has some good books on the New Age. His testimony "The Light that was Dark" is excellant reading telling of his journey in seeking the truth.

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Jamie Schwankl

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Colin Murray