BeYeDoers wrote:

"What you are doing is recognizing and walking in the truth that God has forgiven you. You believe God when he says that he is right and just to forgive those who repent, ask, and believe in Christ. By doing that, you remove from despair."

I agree.


BeYeDoers quote:

"You don't sin against yourself."

I disagree. Consider 1 Corinthians 6:18. Fornication is sinning against your own body, hence the difficulty of overcoming this sin because the flesh is ever converted. Here one can see the separation of the flesh vs the spirit. Do you understand this?

We are commanded to crucify the flesh because it gets us into trouble. Paul talks much about this tension in Romans 7 and 8. There is a disconnect between the spirit and the flesh. In the flesh we do terrible things which grieves the spirit. They are at war. Sometimes the flesh does horrific things which you later regret; you hate yourself for having succumbed to it. So how are you going to deal with this disgust? You will say you have to repent and seek God's forgiveness and in this you also are going to have to accept the fact that you need to forgive your flesh for having lured you into sin. Does this make sense?

QUOTE:

"This term is not found in Scripture "forgiving yourself"."

My answer: True. However, Christians use lots of terms, words not found in Scripture to describe a Biblical concept. Let me list a few of the most popular terms used: Trinity, theocracy, Inerrant, Eschatology, Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omniscience. No one would ever deny the use of these terms because they are not found in Scripture, would they? (I have learned that when talking to JW's to never use a theological terms because they give them different meanings then evangelical Christianity does.)

Another real-life situation. Millions of people have had their babies aborted. Some have repented of this sin. Are you aware of the grief, the hate they have for themselves for having succumbed to this sin? Sure they ask God for forgiveness and they receive it, but the memory comes back to haunt them. You cannot repair this sin - it is final, no practical remedy exists to fix it: you simply have to accept the fact you did this dreadful thing and that God has now forgiven you. Accepting this fact is the essence of 'self-forgiveness'. Understand this?

Does this all make sense? Or are we talking pass each other?

Blessings,
ginnyrose

_________________
Sandra Miller

You are absolutely right - have you ever considered how Peter must have felt every morning he heared the cock crow, after his vehement denials and blasphemings against his Lord?! especially after his words of reassurance to Jesus beforehand, no wonder he wept when Jesus asked if he truly loved Him! - but Jesus reassured him and gave him the responsibility to 'feed His lambs'Jesus showed absolute forgiveness and trust in him, yet Peter had to also accept this love and forgiveness and move on to become the man God wanted him to be.

Judas was full of remorse for betraying Jesus but couldn't come to repentance and know God's forgiveness and ended in suicide.

How Saul must have felt after his conversion, knowing that he was the most fervent persecutor of the Church and now was preaching to men and women whose families he'd put to death!
We forget that these people are still human as the rest of us and must have battled with the most awful remorse and regrets.

This area in our mind and memory is such a playground for the enemy if we allow it.
We know God forgives and chooses to forget, but many can't forgive themselves and let it all go, and in so doing still struggle to accept God's forgiveness and love and live in bondage and self-condemnation, never fully able to move on with the Lord.
The enemy will constantly remind of the wrongs in our past and here is where we choose how to respond, either we listen to his wispers and sink under guilt, self condemnation and feelings of dirt and unworthiness - or we rise up against the enemy and say 'no, I have repented and know I am forgiven and am cleansed by His blood, so no matter what memories you throw at me God doesn't remember them any more so I also choose not to think of them!
We have to let go and forgive ourselves also!

There are many scriptures of God's love and forgiveness and most are assurances that we are forgiven - if these assurances weren't needed God wouldn't have bothered to constantly re-assure us!
Forgiveness is a gift we accept and use, we have to make a concious effort to forgive ourselves and learn to live in forgiveness, forgiving others as we are forgiven.

_________________
Ceri Elaine

I too look back at my poor choices and where I came short of the glory of God and I asked the Lord one day, how can I love you so very much and still make such choices. The Lord is so wonderful to reply. He said, look at my servant David. Wow. I knew about David but when the H.S. shows us something it is deep and alive and freeing. Then it came. OMG! This is why Jesus came - to set the captives free! So when I have repented - turned the other way - I am walking in the forgiveness of my Lord and I am putting a smile on His face for He did not die in vain for me. Man says judgment but God says mercy. So, this sinner can joy in my Salvation and put a smile on her Lord's face by walking in His forgiveness. Our Lord says He has made us white as snow and that He remembers our sins no more as is the East from the West. So if people or my own mind like to bring up my past I say, hmmm take it to my Lord if you will and see what He has to say! Cause I am causing my Lord to smile!!! In Christ, Sheri

ps I pray there is something in this that will cause someone to be set free - cause when the Lord sets us free - we are free indeed! Amen

Greetings

I have been praying about this since Ginnyrose posted it. I just wanted to say that I have really been blessed by some of the posts especially from the moms, I know all to well the heart that has been shared and it is so comforting to know we can walk in Him knowing we are forgiven. Thank you to everyone for sharing your heart on this I am really learning so much and still coming to understand:)

God Bless
maryjane

I've just read most of this thread, and appreciate all of the posts very much.

As ginnyrose pointed out, we [u]can[/u] sin against ourselves, and not just by active sin which we desired and pursued, but I would add, that we can sin against ourselves in various ways which are an attack of the image of God in us (body, soul and spirit), as a faulty response to wounds / pain (inflicted by others, or by ourselves previously), or, as a faulty response to our own sins.

It depends how much a habit of thought or action this has become, just how hard it may be to mortify it with the help of the Spirit, until a place of experiential peace has been attained.

As the brethren have pointed out, this may seem to apply more to women, but to the men whom it affects, it is equally damaging and confusing, and the path to accept the impact of Christ's death is just as fraught with doubts and fears for a male, as it is for a female.