From [url=http://docs.google.com/Doc?id=dx8b23s_3gg2ghmcw]No Longer a sinner[/url]

I said, "I [b]WAS[/b] a sinner saved by grace". He then said " Yea but you still sin, doesn't that make you a sinner?"

The fact that we still sin does not make us sinners.
IOW, just because you sin, doesn't mean that you are a sinner.

Some people have a saying which they twist the truth around to suit there theology:
"I'm not a sinner because I sin; but I sin because I'm a sinner".

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

the Suffix "[b]er[/b]"
[b]1.[/b] (added to verbs) person or thing that (does the action indicated by verb); used to form an agent noun.
[b]Example:[/b] reader, cooker, computer, runner-up, do-gooder

[b]2.[/b] (added to a proper noun) resident or inhabitant of (the place denoted by the proper noun); used to form a [u]demonym[/u] (Ancient Greek (dēmos, “country).
[b]Example:[/b] New Yorker

[b]3.[/b] (added to a noun denoting an occupation) person whose occupation is (the noun).
[b]Example:[/b] astrologer, cricketer, trumpeter

[b]4.[/b] (added to a number, measurement or noun denoting a quantified set) person or thing ranked by (the number) or having (the measurement or quantified set).
[b]Example:[/b] sixer, six-footer, three-wheeler

Therefore, the truth is we are sinners because we fit under any of the examples below:

Sinners love sin.
Sinners sin habitually.
Sinners practice sin; all of which are based on No.# 1
Sinners are under the dominion of sin, which is based on No.# 2
Sinners employ themselves in sin, which is based on No.# 3
Christians must never relate to any of these!

Hello Fellow Brother/Sister in Christ,

I consider myself a Christian, even though I struggle daily with sin (sometimes a spiteful thought overtakes my thoughts by what seems like force, and I struggle to get rid of it, or my temper flairs up over the smallest insignificant things, like dropping something on the floor, etc). I hate sinning, not just because I can come under judgement for it (God does rebuke His Children), but more importantly, because I love God and wish to never displease Him!

Sometimes it seems like I'm under the dominion of sin, yet I don't want to be in sin anymore! I read my Bible daily, yet the old man nature can become overwhelming, even though I pray and repent, pray and repent. How can I grow further in Christ and finally defeat sin once and for all? How long before I become free from the old man nature?

Thank you for any help you can offer me. :-) God bless!

A good post by the way, because it raised these questions in me.

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Jim

So true.

If you notice Pauls' greeting in his letters to the churches he addressed them as saints, never written to the sinners at.....

So, are you Saint Logic? Don't you like the ring of it? I am not making sport...it just is something we are not accustomed to - calling each other saints although Greg Gordon does when he addresses the Believers here on SI.

ginnyrose

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Sandra Miller

Hello jmooney6, welcome to Sermonindex. Thanx for replying.

Interesting topic. How would you reconcile this with Romans 7:24 and also 1 Timothy 1:15?

I agree with much of your reasoning because I do not believe a true Christian should live in habitual sin. I remember hearing a message by Leonard Ravenhill where he said someone misquoted a verse to him and that verse was 1 John 2:1 and the person said "..when any man sins, we have an Advocate.." Ravenhill said it's not "when", it is "IF". HE stated that the "IF" is important because it should NOT be the norm for the Christian.

The Bible says that the righteous are scarely saved, so where will the sinner and the ungodly appear? Sinners will go to hell. Christians do not go to hell. Therefore Christians are not sinners. Christians follow Jesus and Jesus lived a perfect life. Jesus is our example.

The Bible calls Christians Saints, not sinners. A sinner is someone who chooses to disobey God. A Christian is someone who chooses to obey God. A sinner is sinful. A Saint or a Christian is holy. To be born again, or to be saved, means that you become a Saint. We were sinners, but now we are Saints. Anything less than this is not true conversion.

If a Christian sins, they become a sinner and therefore they need to repent and be restored.

The trouble I have with this type of thinking is that I have never encountered a sinless Christian or Saint in my years serving God. Yes, we are Saints through the blood of Jesus but each of us daily deals with sin so in fact we are still sinners at times.. As we get convicted, we daily cry out to Him and provides the Victory but none of us have arrived at sinless perfection. I recently quoted these verses in another topic but the story of the two men who went up to the temple in Luke 18:9-14 comes to mind again. Especially verse 13.. I'd rather keep in mind that I am a sinner in need of his mercy every day then to be seeing myself as a Saint. Also, the more I know Him the more I see how short I fall and the more work that needs to be done in me.

I tend to agree with my pastor here below as far as our continuing struggle with sin and the sanctification process:
[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-4bJg6sH34]Pleasures of Sin[/url]
Each of us if we are honest realize we are a work in progress. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's okay to sin. Just that when we call ourselves Saints we need to remember it's only by the Blood of Jesus and the work of His Holy Spirit.

My last point: I'm not saying all of you here that consider yourselves Saints do this, but I know of some that see the message of the Cross as just for the unsaved. Basically like the Cross is just the door into the Christian life. In Colossians 2:6 it says "Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him". That tells me that we need to remember how we received Him. We received Him in humility and acknowledgement that we are sinners in need of a Savior.

Hello Saints [yes, sister ginnyrose, it does have a nice ring to it]

Here's my $.0.02:
Dear jmooney6,
I think I understand where you are. You see, as believers, we have a living, breathing enemy, Satan, who's goal is to
a] prevent folks from coming to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ. Failing that

b] Prevent the saints from being spiritually productive e.g. growing daily in our experiential knowledge of the Trinity [Eph 1:17 -20, Eph 3"16- 19 etc], growing up and manifesting the fruit of the Spirit [Eph 4:14-16, Gal. 5:22-26]

On top of that the enemy has an ally within us: our flesh i.e. body and unrenewed mind.
The path to victory is two-pronged.
a] In I Cor 9:27. The Lord shows us what to do with our bodies. He gives us grace but He won't discipline our bodies for us.

b] Rom 12:1-2
Notice also, we are to do something here too.
Falling into sin isn't like catching a cold-you know, totally without your consent.

The enemy will come at you using everything in his arsenal, having studied humans for some 6,000 years or so.
Our victory is in knowing how to skillfully wield the Sword of the Spirit [the Word of God] and being sober and vigilant.
Say for instance, I have a problem with thinking unworthy thoughts of a particular person who just manages to always rub me the wrong way. I could
a] resign myself to it and justify it with,'I'm impatient by nature. It's their fault. They just like to push my buttons' Believe me, there are believers like that.
OR

b] realize i'm not walking in love i.e. being short-tempered [contrary to I Cor 13:4]. I would
i] repent
ii]ask the Lord for grace to bear with them
iii] ask the Lord for strategies to practically express love to them
iv] know when to whip out the Word at the devil e.g. Boldly declaare, 'It is written, 'I am a child of God [I John3:1]. I have been given His nature. He is at work in me giving me the desire and ability to do that which pleases Him [Phil 2:13]. I refuse these sinful thoughts. I refuse to dwell on them. In the name of Jesus Christ, begone!'
v] Confess God's word about my new nature in Christ. There was a time we had I Cor 13 up on our fridge, bathroom door, bedroom door, living room walls until some of it sunk in. We've got to put the Word before our eyes...

You might have to stand your ground a few times until the enemy realizes u do believe what u're saying. He'll go off to bother someone else and return another season.

Hope this helps...

It is well.


Tolu

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Tolu