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 Re:

IHOP is a movement that has largely embraced "another spirit" and promotes some really "out there" false prophecies -not to mention their endorsement of false revivals and their past affiliation with men such as Todd Bentley.

I have been to a couple IHOP churches personally and in one I discerned a strong evil presence of demons of sexual perversion, and this was confirmed by the fact that many people in that church had sexual struggles. In another, there was a strange spirit, I think it was divination or something of the sort, and the spiritual presence of it was mystic and creepy. The place was not filled with the Holy Spirit.

Look, most of what they "SAY" might be good, but the issue is the SPIRIT behind what they are saying that is infecting people with demonic bondages. I would strongly warn anyone who is in any way absorbing the stuff that IHOP puts out to get away from it immediately and to seek Christ.

 2009/1/6 22:00
davidt
Member



Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 327


 Re:

Sorry about making so many posts about this topic I guess but I have just been coming upon these resources progressively. So here is an audio message from Michael Brown that is actually called "stand with Israel". I believe this is a pretty well layed out message from a man that specializes in this area and more so then my self specifically at this point.

[url=http://www.icnministries.org/israel/audio.htm]click here[/url]

 2009/1/6 23:59Profile
savannah
Member



Joined: 2008/10/30
Posts: 2265


 Re: Beware of Zionism

The Roots of Christian Zionism Part I, The Cause of the Conflict
Charles E. Carlson Dec 08, 2008

America’s war based economy depends on Christians’ support Christian Zionists, by whatever name, are the primary public enablers of serial wars upon Islamic states. Why? Because they have been conditioned to think of Islam as an anathema to them, much as many of us were trained to consider communists our ideological enemies a generation ago. Most Christian celebrity media leaders have allowed themselves to be used as propagandists against Islamic states with independent governments, including Iraq, Palestine, Afghanistan, Somalia, Bosnia, and in the future, Islamic states of Iran and Sudan. Our purpose is to examine why and how this has been done, why it is wrong and what can be done to correct it.

The Christian Right’s world war on Islam was observed as early as 1983, and became official in 1991 with the first destruction on Iraq. Only Christian Zionists (known by many names) believe war is an inevitable part of their religion, so they do little to resist it. Due to this un-Christ like error, they have become the primary cause of our conflict, a conflict that has become perpetual.

Christian Zionists, by whatever name, are the only remaining faction of any size that supports the war in Iraq. Therefore, they are largely responsible for the economic and social disaster, and due to the distortion of their own faith, they are the seeds of their own destruction. We find them among our friends, families and associates. This is a problem because we can not just turn our back on Christian Zionists, despise them, and call them fools; they are among our best friends, bosses, even our wife or children, so we need to learn to deal with them. In their formidable numbers we find them our best hope for the positive change from the warmaking state.

Endless wars always have, and always will result in the destruction of both the morality and the currency of the aggressor and are historically destructive to religious freedom. High priced gasoline and food can be accurately laid at the feet of those few industrialists and politicians who see war in their own interest. They deceive Christian Zionists, making them enablers, believing that war is necessary to their faith. Judeo-Christians can be easily swayed to support conflict, so long as a Muslim is on the receiving end of our bombs and bullets, and so long as the state of Israel is perceived to benefit from it.

I am in no way excusing cowardly Congressmen for knuckling under to the war lobby. We know some few gain a lot financially from war, and work for it. But these professional Warmakers are far too mercenary to believe that a God controls their eternal destiny. I also do not dismiss the influence of Jewish Zionists, who consider war in the Middle East in their national interest. But for every Jewish Zionist in America there are ten or twenty Christian Zionists doing the work of the former.

It is my belief, as a follower of Jesus Christ, that Christians who turn from Jesus’ words, “Blessed are the peacemakers, and love your brother…even your enemies, as you love yourself”…these “Christians” deserve the hottest places in hell, as Dante put it. For if those who claim they follow Christ fail to stand for justice and protection of the innocent, who will?

Change can only come from understanding the Roots of Christian Zionism. To this end it is urgent that all Americans of all religions understand why Christian Zionists believe what they do. Those who try to follow Christ need to rescue decent souls to more orthodox Christianity, one by one.

Most Christian Zionists don’t know they are Zionists and might deny it. They usually describe themselves as Evangelicals, Dispensationalists, pre-Millennialists, or a “Born Again Christian.” Very few are comfortable with the radical elements of Christian Zionism if they stop to think about it, but they do not. Their church is to most, a comfortable social outlet, especially for their families, and a society that they desire. Their societal links are much better defined than the theological ones which most do not understand and can not recite.

Restoring the walk to Jesus’ Way can save America.

If Christian Zionism can be correctly exposed as a warring religion, America may be restored to peace, justice, and at least to some of the prosperity which we have lost. Many of us are all beginning to suffer economic distress as a result of the very wars Christian Zionists have supported, supposedly because these wars please God and are necessary for Jesus’ return to earth.

At the apex of the Christian Zionist sect (which is only 100 years old) are leaders who include media personalities such as John Hagee, Rod Parsley, Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell, Benny Hinn, Joyce Meyer, and hundreds more. Each has openly expressed the view that war upon Islamic states is necessary and welcome. Currently, most of these call for America’s next planned serial war against Iran. Sudan is also on the war agenda.

Dispensational bible students can be found in almost any church of any denomination because of the effectiveness of radio churches and giant international bible studies in homes and churches that transcends denominational descriptions. For instance, some Roman Catholics, Episcopalians and Lutherans are Christian Zionists because of their outside Bible studies and are ignoring the contradictions to orthodox Christianity espoused by their own church. In this sense, Christian Zionism is a disease or a parasite upon orthodox or traditional Christianity.

The sixty-four dollar question is how do you identify a Christian Zionist, and how do you know if you are one? We have developed a 10 word litmus test that is non-invasive and usually welcome, so you can ask any churchgoer without hurting his feelings or starting an argument: "Do you believe the state of Israel is the fulfillment of biblical prophesy?"

Tens of millions of Americans need to face this question, for if they believe Israel is the fulfillment of biblical prophesies, then where does Jesus fit in? Simply stated, either Jesus or Israel is the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Old Testament, but there is not room in Christianity for both. If you have been taught that political Israel is in any way involved in your spiritual life, you are infected!

Orthodox or traditional Christians have always believed that Jesus, not Israel is the correct answer. Only Christian Zionism (by definition) assumes that political Israel is in God’s plan for the future, and that in spite of its intolerance, racism, and constant wars, political Israel is the chosen people of God.

Today about one-third of the 210 million American adults who identity themselves in polls and census as Christians, are influenced by Christian Zionism. That is about 70 million, most of whom vote, making Christian Zionists the most powerful and coveted voting block in the world, as can be clearly seen during an election year, translating into some 26 million votes! This means they are much coveted by every political candidate.

The most obvious example was John McCain’s reckless pursuit of Christian Right support that had led him to gross embarrassment at the pulpit of both maniacal Zionists, John Hagee and Rod Parsley, both of whom call for nuclear destruction of Iran.

The teachings of Jesus Christ inescapably demand peace and love of one’s neighbors. This has been America’s one badge of righteousness. In the mid-19th Century, America’s churches led the cry for peace in a world where wars were all too common. It was later, at the turn of the 20th Century that Christian Zionism first took root.

The French author Alexis deTocqueville wrote of churches while he traveled here in the first third of the 19th Century. He sang the praises of America’s invulnerable strength and spirit which he attributed to our citizens sense of morality, and even to the abundant church attendance he observed in America, which of course he would not find in his native France.

DeTocqueville wrote: “America is great because she is good, and if America ever ceases to be good, she will cease to be great.” He could not know that the churches he saw as the source of conscience were under a moral attack aimed at the very sense of justice he observed within them.

War seeds immorality
The first attack on the churches came with the War Between the States in 1861-65, which scarred the sense of justice and morality and diminished and divided churches as only a brutal war can. The terrible slaughter called the War Between the States taught moral Christian men about mass killing. But it did not change their New Testament Bible; it simply allowed men to ignore it.

The most powerful theological attack on Christianity came from Oxford University Press in England, which in 1908 published a false and intentionally misleading reference Bible called the Scofield Reference Bible aimed at creating a new religion, with the future state of Israel a semi-God in it. The term “dispensationalism” was taken from Scofield’s book, and is an assault on orthodox Christianity. Oxford did not just publish the book; it promoted it into the key places of study in America where opinion could be molded to cloud the peacemaking tradition of Christianity.

Most pastors and teachers were unaware of any danger. A few foresaw the consequences of the heresy that to most seemed foolish, outlandish, and embarrassing. Few guessed it would come to dominate American Christianity when in 1948 the State of Israel came into existence.

This new religion that chose the friendly pseudonym “evangelicalism” is the topic of our discussion. Religion scholars on both sides often identified it as “Dispensationalism” or “Pre-millennialism,” and “Judeo-Christianity” which are popular synonyms. We will presently explain some of these changes in detail, but first I want to show you how world-Zionism sold its stepchild to Christians.

The World Zionist movement was in full charge toward occupying Arab Palestine by 1913. It was given a huge financial and promotional boost through Oxford University Press in England, which to the amazement of Biblical scholars published a new bible of Christian Zionism in 1908 called the Scofield Reference Bible. This book would be used as the launching pad for a methodical and spiritually deceptive growth of the new sect. Its leading was to be subtly used to help lure America into two unnecessary world wars.

Not all mainline Christians were asleep.

One of the few who saw the warmaking and heretical danger of the new sect, and actually called it “Zionism” was a well-known attorney, Phillip Mauro, turned scholar, who wrote a brilliant critique of the new cult in his 1927 book, Gospel of the Kingdom. Mauro wrote:

“Through a recent occurrence I was made aware of the extent- far greater than I had imagined – to which the modern system of dispensationalism has found acceptance amongst orthodox Christians; and also the extent- correspondingly great- to which the recently published “Scofield Bible” (which is the main vehicle of the new system of doctrine referred to) has usurped the place of authority that belongs to God’s Bible alone.”

Mauro went on:
“Let it be understood at the outset that my controversy is solely with the doctrine itself and not at all with those who hold and teach it, or any of them. Indeed I was myself of their number for so long a time that I can but feel a tender consideration and a profound sympathy likewise, for all such.”

Phillip Mauro has been an encouragement to your writer, and to all those who support We Hold These Truths. He was a dedicated scholar with an engineer’s logic, and a lawyer’s tenacity that allowed him to foresee errors in 1927, that many like myself took five decades to recognize.

This writer must admit and echo Mauro’s confession; for I, too, was “of their number” and like Mauro, I share “profound sympathy” for those caught up in dispensationalism. As his words suggest, we are not fighting Christian Zionists; we are trying to reclaim them.

Dr. F. Furman Kearley was another who saw the path to war in the errors of dispensationalism. He was head of graduate studies at Adeline Christian University in 1983 when he wrote of Christian Zionism’s evil fruit of perpetual war in the Middle East. His short book, The Middle East Crisis in Biblical Perspective, takes sharp issue with those he calls Israel First Millennialists. He names radical prophet Hal Lindsay, and the late Jerry Falwell, whom he said would lead us into endless war with Islamic states.

Kearley noted: “When the concept of Armageddon, as in Revelation 16:16 is raised, those who believe in a literal war at Armageddon often feel that Christians should work to start this war, and should vigorously participate in it. Those in particular who view this present situation as Armageddon…believe that Christians should support Israel with vigor and urge our government to take an active part in the conflict in the Middle East.”

Kearley saw Christian Zionist’s support of Israel’s brutal occupation of Palestine as a precursor to more war in the Middle East. He concludes:
“One needs to be absolutely certain that the doctrine he follows is God’s and not of men before he advocates a doctrine that would put the blood of other men on our hands.”

Dr. F. Furman Kearley explains the neo-Christians’ love affair with war as a religious fixation, correctly stating: “Christians must (as a matter faith) pray for peace in the Middle East. Premillenialists must pray and work for World War III, so Armageddon will come. They cannot pray for peace.”

If a follower of Christian Zionism would only examine the simple teaching of Jesus in the New Testament he will find not a single passage or phrase that would give a follower of Christ cause to take the life of another man, or another man’s child. Certainly we must not kill a man’s wife in a far away country. No such permission exists.-End Part I

URL http://whtt.org/index.php?news=2&id=2724


In Part II: We examine the bitter fruit of Christian Zionist's error...how followers of Christ were detoured to accept a false and anti-Jesus doctrine of Christian Zionism that leads to the death of millions in the name of Christianity.

 2009/1/7 1:57Profile
KathleenP
Member



Joined: 2008/4/3
Posts: 228
Maine

 Re:

I must humbly say that in all due respect to the zeal to that is displayed here on behalf of the Jews and the prophecies concerning their time of salvation, we must be very discerning as to when this time will be.

As our dear Brother Art Katz stated, they are at a place of self sufficiency and self righteousness that only a great breaking will deliver them from. Are we "prophetic" minded saints ready to watch Jerusalem become leveled and destroyed? Are we aware enough of the need to cause great distress among them so they can receive the love of the truth? When Jerusalem is laid in heaps and the modern prophets scratch their heads in wonder because they did noy realize that modern Jerusalem was not rebuilt by righteous godly men as in the days of Nehemiah and Ezra.

Only by a great humbling will the Jewish nation begin to seek their Messiah and we must be the priestly nation that the word declares His people to be in order to present to them the true gospel of godliness and repentence. The Lord is rebuilding and refining a holy people and it must people patterned according to His word and not man's portrayel of holiness. I have a sincere desire to see the salvation of the Jews, but it can ONLY be done the Lord's way.

In light of all this, I must agree with Josef_Urban concerning the Call and Mike Bickle. Dear saints, I have stated before that messages that Art Katz had spoken before their congretion rebuked them for their loud music and "modern" trappings. We were never meant to be a "with it church in a "with it" world.

I have discerned the sexual spirits surrounding the congregation and spirits of sorcery and witchcraft. I am not a child in this sort of knowledge and I do not intend to speak this to cause strife. In malice we are to be children, but in knowledge we are to be men. I cannot support this organization in all good conscience because of what I see spiritually, reguardless of the zeal displayed.

For some reason, even the word "revolution" echos of rebellion to me. I am concerned.

Sincerely in Christ Jesus, Kathleen


_________________
Kathleen

 2009/1/7 5:29Profile
TroyorTakoda
Member



Joined: 2008/12/13
Posts: 46


 Re: Israel

Quote:
Frankly, I'm confused. I don't know what people mean when they say we should "stand with Israel". I'm not sure why we should treat them any differently than we treat other earthly nations. We treat them with respect and dignity. However, I don't think many Christians are accepting the fact that modern day Judaism is an apostate, idolatrous religion, which would actually be sinful to support.



Have you seen my post on human rights in Gaza?


_________________
Troy A Lasseigne

 2009/1/7 7:14Profile
TroyorTakoda
Member



Joined: 2008/12/13
Posts: 46


 Re: Roots of Christian Zionism

Very good stuff, Savannah. I bookmarked that link. I am going to a Gaza protest this Friday, so please pray that it will open up some doors for me to minister to my Muslim friends.


_________________
Troy A Lasseigne

 2009/1/7 7:18Profile
davidt
Member



Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 327


 Re:

Josef,

Quote:
IHOP is a movement that has largely embraced "another spirit" and promotes some really "out there" false prophecies -not to mention their endorsement of false revivals and their past affiliation with men such as Todd Bentley.


This whole topic has been covered before but I will take this opportunity to share some things that I believe have not been said from my own personal perspective. I know what IHOP is to a somewhat large extent as I have experienced it first hand for a while and have studied about it. I have a whole personal testimony to go along with it that I will not mention at this time.

You say they are of another spirit but somewhat of note I would like to say that this is a ministry that both Leonard Ravenhill and Art Katz have been a friend of since its beginnings even til their deaths to a somewhat substantial level. And so in this I mention possibly your own prophets. This is not even to mention the vast fruit that is being produced in the lives of saints.

The claim you make here as you know is a very severe things and is either slander or an exhortation that should be heeded and so I think you should take good care in making such a statement and in light of that I will respond.

I don't know exactly which far out prophecies you are talking about so I can neither receive nor respond to that. I am sure there is some error in some places which is often the case with Christians and ministries. I can say though that I have listened to the encountering Jesus series about the prophetic history of IHOP and am somewhat persuaded recently that it is sound and probably true. From what I understand Andrew Strom confirmed its accuracy though he thinks it is now off the rails.

If you are talking about Brownsville and Toronto I believe that is debatable and cant say much since my exposure to it is limited especially because I was not yet a Christian when it was occuring and did not even hear of it til a good time later. From what I understand good things have come out of it though like joy in the Lord and laughter, intimacy and soaking in the presence of the Lord, fire fervency repentance and revival, Gladstone and Brown ect. As for Lakeland I do not think IHOP ever said it was a great end time revival like others had and it was not substantially effectual in the community. I also do not have much to say about Lakeland as I did not receive anything from it.


Quote:
I have been to a couple IHOP churches personally and in one I discerned a strong evil presence of demons of sexual perversion, and this was confirmed by the fact that many people in that church had sexual struggles. In another, there was a strange spirit, I think it was divination or something of the sort, and the spiritual presence of it was mystic and creepy. The place was not filled with the Holy Spirit.


If you have not been to KC you do not know that half of it. There are many places that take on the name and even the form but most places I am sure are very far from what it is like in KC. The IHOP leadership has made it a point that they are not starting a denomination and so all the hop's out there are running independently. So it is as if some random Church just started to pray and that is about the extent of the similarities with some mimicked forms. So any comparison that you make cannot be taken into account therefore you must see these as distinct.

When it comes to your spiritual discernment I cannot confirm it since it is largely subjective to you. Often people have personality errors that skew their supposed prophetic seeing whether it be legalism or lasciviousness or a number of things though I am not specifically saying that this is the case with you.

The fact that you state someone was in sexual sin would not necessarily mean that he congregation it compromised. Especially I mean if it is a visitor or light attendee or even a struggling brother or sister in weakness or maturity or a temporary snare.

I think it also hard to say that the Holy Spirit was not in the room as I can personally attest that often I would be in the presence of the Holy Spirit while the congregation around me did not discern it except possibly through me.

Once again you may have felt creepy because of your pre conditional prejudices that produced an emotional response. And even if this congregation were compromised it does not mean that KC is in fact IHOP emphasizes holiness emphatically.


Quote:
Look, most of what they "SAY" might be good, but the issue is the SPIRIT behind what they are saying that is infecting people with demonic bondages. I would strongly warn anyone who is in any way absorbing the stuff that IHOP puts out to get away from it immediately and to seek Christ.


It says in first John that we can know if someone is of a false spirit if they confess false doctrine like Jesus did not come in the flesh. It can also be turned around in that if one speaks the truth then they are of a true spirit and I know that is not always the case. When it comes to IHOP they speak "much" truth and very much more so then the majority of the Church. Holiness against pornography is regularly spoken of authoritatively and importantly in light of human trafficking and having eyes for the Lord and an inner lamp of light, WOTM evangelism and hell fire preaching, apostolic foundations and the knowledge of the Holy, true eschatology,revival prayer and intimacy, and a whole mass of other things.

As for demonic bondages in contrast there is much fruit being born in raising up fasting, faith filled, fervent, forerunners. I attended an internship and it was like a boot camp. I never had any free time and at times it was hard for me to keep up. I had attended a pretty good Bible College previously and it paled in comparison and I think there are few places in the world that are emphasizing the sermon on the mount in that way at least in the west excluding the apostolic ministers in China and the like.


In conclusion I have many more things to say but at this specific time wont. I can say that I have often had my wrestling with this matter very much so but have grown to understand much and at this point only see in part and so cannot speak absolutely authoritatively but I can say as much as I can. I think though that this is something that we should not disdain but it is mighty thing that is occuring also in light of The Call. There is some error and some mixture but I believe a lot of good is happening irregularly and so should be rejoiced in and lifted up especially in light of the lukewarm Church that is so prevalent. I think it is a much bigger thing then you think. If these are believers and you are separating from them as an out of Churcher or IHOPer then in that you are walking in the dark for if we walk in the light we will have fellowship with one another and to shrink back because some weakness or whatnot makes you uncomfortable because you are to weak to eat meat or something then that should be corrected. In love, sincerity, and humility on such matters and my own weakness in grasping such things I write.

 2009/1/7 9:13Profile
davidt
Member



Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 327


 Re:

Kathleen,

Great I am glad that you also know the truth about the true end time scenario and happenings!

Quote:
...concerning their time of salvation, we must be very discerning as to when this time will be... they are at a place of self sufficiency and self righteousness that only a great breaking will deliver them from.


I am not saying that this time will be tomorrow or something. I think it could but I think more so maybe in the next couple generations or so since I think the Church is largely not prepared and other things. Also, I am not so sure that a physical humbling will bring them to Christ since this has already happened. I also read in revelation how tribulation makes man to curse God even more. This is not to totally discredit your statement only to make a point.


Quote:
...it can ONLY be done the Lord's way. In light of all this, I must agree with Josef


Are you saying that IHOP or something is doing it mans way? I think that a prayer ministry and it's attitude especially if done the right way is quite the opposite.


Quote:
...messages that Art Katz had spoken before their congretion rebuked them for their loud music and "modern" trappings. We were never meant to be a "with it church in a "with it" world.


I am sure that Art rebuked IHOP at times and I hope we are all rebuked at times that it would be oil to our heads. This however is not a total denunciation. I have heard some things where he talked about music but I have not heard any direct messages against IHOP though. Not to say that there aren't any but if there are I would like to hear them for instruction since I value this so if you have the resources please let me know.

Loud music? I am taken back in grievance over this statement just by that fact that a Christian can be so wrong. This is not meant to be offensive but only expressive. Is there not loud music in heaven and shouting from arch angels? Did not David say make a shout to the Lord and a loud noise? I know there is a time and a place for hush and such but not always. Maybe you mean that it is just a big fun time or something but I think that often the heart of it is to be fervent toward the Lord.

By Modern trappings you were not very specific so I have a hard time knowing what you are saying. I see some modern trappings but much of the modern trappings are gnats that are being swallowed and it is only to the legalistic weak brethren that strain at them. I think there is a validity to in some ways of being relevant to our culture as Paul was and more specifically to our generation not to say we should be worldly in a sinful sense but there is a difference and wearing clothes like Quakers and listening only to classical music or something is only a form and externally focused on a false romanticizing of our previous history.


Quote:
I have discerned the sexual spirits surrounding the congregation and spirits of sorcery and witchcraft. I am not a child in this sort of knowledge and I do not intend to speak this to cause strife. In malice we are to be children, but in knowledge we are to be men. I cannot support this organization in all good conscience because of what I see spiritually, reguardless of the zeal displayed.


Have you been to KC and that for an extended period and observing without prejudice in taking a true look at what is happening with patience? If not then I would be hard pressed to acknowledge your statement about spiritual discernment.

I would also not really question your statement about maturity wholly and you may be right to an extent but to a full extent I think not. And I think if you cant receive it in good conscience then that may be for a number of reasons though I think it probable that those can be answered. I also have had many reasons but many of them were false and have been revealed for what they are after perseverance and love for the truth no matter how hard it was to get there and all the offense that raised in my heart. Remember that Jesus purposely offended the mind to reveal the heart when speaking of eating His flesh and drinking His blood and all left Him and He even tested His close disciples but they in desperation and faith in what they otherwise knew to be true stayed for they were bound to this great man who had all they had. Imagine if you were a Jew and someone told you God had been born of a virgin, or the God came in the form of a dove, or God came in the form of fire and wind, or that John the Baptist was Elijah to come. I also think many things can be traditionalism, denominationalism, legalism, and so forth.


Quote:
even the word "revolution" echos of rebellion to me.


The revolution is in context to end times theology. It is in contrast to replacement theologians, post tribbing not caring or preparing, lethargy and unbelief in prophecy. What is wrong with that if it is rebellious it is in a righteous sense. This is an unmerited comment and it is sad that such a slanderous statement would be made without any reason or by the word of God and in love for the family of God. To revolutionize something is merely to change it the word has no inherent evil sense to it.

 2009/1/7 9:40Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:

Frankly, I'm confused. I don't know what people mean when they say we should "stand with Israel".



Hi there Taylor, as Robert W might say 'would you like to borrow my helmet'? ;-)


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2009/1/7 9:44Profile
davidt
Member



Joined: 2006/5/21
Posts: 327


 Re:

Troyor,

Yes I have read your post and find it in some places to and sense to be false.

I understand that there is MUCH hardship in Gaza but that is the fault of Hamas and this war if the fault of Hamas and the fact that Israel has to accidently hurt civilians is Hamas' fault. War is never a clean thing.

I also understand that much of what the US has done it false and even that of Israel of course. However in this instance from my understanding Israel is in the right. Maybe if you understood the statement that Ahmadinejad has made about annihilating Israel or that of the late Arafat then you would understand. Or the many other things.

I do stand with Israel but I do not condone false wars. Nor do I state that Israel is good nor innocent. I do however stand for them to have human rights and for them to have their homeland.

 2009/1/7 10:12Profile





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