Sorry dear brothers. It was not my desire to overload you. It was my desire to edify you and present truth to you. It was a bit to much at one one time. (Specifically 4 threads to my remembrance have been deleted)

1. a 10 min. clip of James white sharing on the debate of Calvinism
2. a 10min. clip of old libertarian freewill discussion
3. a scripture focused article that I wrote that reasons on the subject of Election based on foreseen faith
4. a short article wrote focusing on 4 specific text and with a desire focus specifically on them.

My purpose for starting new threads was because each of these are specifically distinct and I did not want them to be lost in the middle of a single bulky thread.

If anyone would like to read the foreseen faith article I wrote, It's on my blog.

Blessings,
-Abraham

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Abraham Juliot

… The Holy Spirit has not come among us to become involved in a lot of our minor concerns, the trivial things that take up much of our attention. The Holy Spirit is not here to back you up in your little private quirks and quibbles in prophetic interpretation. The Holy Spirit cannot be used for your arguments about a certain mode of baptism. I have refused to become involved in argument and controversy over the matter of eternal security, because I want the Holy Spirit to help and guide me. And He will not help me if I insist on fooling around in those areas that are not the most important in Christian truth and proclamation.

A.W . Tozer in Echoes from Eden


narrowpath

I understand Tozer didn't want to trifle.

However, if knowing whether someone can rest assured in Christ's preservation and finishing of the work that he has started, and whether they are practicing one of the two (50%) of Christ's ordinances (I am referring to the Lord's supper and baptism) correctly is not a mere trifle or a little quibble.

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Taylor Otwell

Octavius Winslow, on True Revival - From the book, "Personal Declension and Revival of Religion in the Soul."

*Winslow was a minister and close friend of Spurgeon. Winslow sometimes preached in Spurgeon's Metropolitan Tabernacle. He emphasized the idea that true revival is a sovereign work of God, and that it occurs when the Holy Spirit makes use of accurately proclaimed truth from the scripture. The following passage greatly influenced my view of true revival.

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The moment a private Christian, or a public teacher, or an associated body, becomes infected with false doctrine, departs from the word of God, and sets up doctrines, and commandments, and ordinances, at variance with the revealed word, that moment finds him or them deteriorating in spirituality and declining in holiness; and from a career of spiritual prosperity, perhaps the most unexampled, relapsing into a state of formality, deadness, and unfruitfulness, from which nothing seems fully and permanently to recover them.

It is true, an outward appearance of fruitfulness may follow the exhibition of opposite and conflicting doctrines, - crowds may flock to their standard, and multitudes seem converted by their influence, - but soon these delusive appearances are seen to pass away. The time of trial and of sifting comes, and then it is found - when, alas! too late to close the floodgate against the overwhelming evils which the preaching of error has produced - that the truth, and the truth only, in the hands of the Eternal Spirit of God, can really enlighten the dark mind, regenerate the lifeless soul, and subdue and sanctify the rebellious heart: it is then discovered, that the true prosperity of a church, its stability, its spirituality, its vigor, and its holy influence, are essentially, and therefore inseparably, connected with a fearless and holy maintenance of the doctrines of grace; that where they are denied, or held back, or in any way obscured, there may indeed exist the form of godliness, but the power - the glorious, Divine, and sanctifying power - is wanting. The preaching of false doctrine may build up a church composed of "wood, hay, stubble," but the preaching of truth alone can rear a church composed of "gold, silver, precious stones." And the day is approaching, when " every man's work shall be made manifest; for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is." i Cor. iii. 13.

Do we long, and pray, and labor for a true revival of the Lord's work? - What is more calculated to bring down the Holy Spirit of God upon us in all the plenitude of his awakening influence, - arousing the careless, convincing the impenitent and unbelieving of sin, annihilating the self-righteousness, prostrating the high thoughts, and slaying the pride of the human heart, - than a clear, pointed, and faithful exhibition of God's own revealed truth? Has not the great experiment been tried, and the question set at rest? - It has. President Edwards, in his Narrative of Surprising Conversions, bears this testimony: - "I think I have found," says he, "that no discourses have been more remarkably blessed than those in which the doctrine of God's absolute sovereignty with regard to the salvation of sinners, and his just liberty with regard to his answering the prayers, or succeeding the pains of mere natural men, continuing such, have been insisted on. I never found so much immediate saving fruit, in any measure, of any discourses I have offered to my congregation, as some from those words, ' That every mouth may be stopped Rom. iii. 19; endeavoring from thence to show, that it would be just with God forever to reject and cast off mere natural men."

And to go still further back in search of a stronger testimony; what was the great revival at Jerusalem on the day of Pentecost the result of, but a faithful exhibition of the truth, brought to bear upon the consciences and the hearts of three thousand rebellious sinners, by the bold apostle Peter? The doctrines he then proclaimed, were the now despised and slighted doctrines of grace; the truths he then thundered forth, were the most humbling to human pride, and the most offensive to the natural heart, and yet the most calculated, in the hands of the Eternal Spirit, to awaken the deepest emotion, and to produce the most anxious inquiry:- "Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, you have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain." " Now, when they heard this, they were pierced in their heart, and said unto Peter and the rest of the apostles. Men and brethren, what shall we do?" This was the result of a simple preaching of the truth, - a faithful exhibition of the doctrines of grace. The stout-hearted Jews listened with awe: the men who had witnessed the awful scene of Calvary without emotion, now quailed, trembled, turned pale, and smote on their breasts, in all the anguish of a deep, pungent conviction of sin. How soon did their proud natures bend, their hard hearts melt; the strong fortress of their prejudices yield before the simplicity and the majesty of the truth! It was the naked " sword of the Spirit" which Peter wielded, and this, at one blow, smote to the earth three thousand of the most hopeless, impenitent sinners; it was a crucified Savior that he held up, which, by the power of the Holy Spirit, wrought the wonders of the day of Pentecost. " Is not my word," says God, " like as a fire, and like a hammer that breaks the rock in pieces?" " Your arrows are sharp in the hearts of the king's enemies, whereby the people fall under you." Is it unreasonable, then, to expect, that the same Spirit will honor with similar tokens of his power, the preaching of the same truths in our day ? " Thus says the Lord, Stand you in the ways and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and you shall find rest for your souls." Jer. vi. 16.

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The disciples "could not help but speak" of the gospel. Spurgeon was himself an ardent preacher of the gospel, and yet he said, "Calvinism is nothing other than the gospel." Would we expect him to keep his mouth closed if that's what he believed to be the most accurate portrayal of Christ's redemptive work?

I can not answer for all of you, however, the current discussions of Calv/Arm and the balance of free-will and the nature of God have greatly blessed me in further understanding faith towards God and God who has Mercy.

It has revealed a great amount of lack in my own knowledge of God and brought me to much prayer and studying and meditation of the Word. And that certaintly is not a bad thing. I have honestly taken a great deal of our conversations here and been able to bless and minister to several dear friends of mine concerning faith and the Holy Spirit and the Sovereignty of God and the promises of God, etc..

Some may have been offended or defensive in the disagreements but I have rather found it enjoyable to reason together the Bible and who Christ is.

There is always an element that we need to keep ourselves humble and compassionate and gentle with eachother in hope to edify and encourage one another in the true knowledge of God. It is unfortunate to say that sometimes even when we are well intentioned and careful in our words that we do offend (whether by purpose or not).

But all the same, those who do become offended need to put their pride aside and "bless" those who "curse" them.

And likewise for those who are offending to put off their pride or, if it is not intended, they need to be more thoughtful for what they say and seek to honor others above themselves. That we try to be at peace with all men insofar as it is up to us. For the internet is a very poor medium concerning sincerity and gentleness of expressions that we can really only relate in person, face-to-face.

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Jordan

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Aaron Ireland

PaulWest,

Thanks for your wonderful analogy to military forces -lets pray that we can become men and women who serve the risen savior and that a lot of this 'friendly fire' will die down.

Theopenlife,

Yes, Spurgeon was a calvinist, and he did preach the Gospel, but he did recognize that there were very blessed and annointed men and women in both the Arm and Cal camps. Spurgeon was a good friend of DL Moody and each of the men was a great blessing to eachother's ministries. Moody is definitely an Arminian, and I actually enjoy reading sermons from both of these men.

The point is, we can pick one camp or the other and still be brothers in Christ... actually, it takes a bigger man to embrace someone from the other side than it does to sit an criticize them.

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Ian Smith

I am new to sermonindex , so far ilike the freedom i have had to post what i have thought, and that noone in charge has ousted me. i am posting here to thank you , crsschk , for your post here in this thread. i like your attitude towards this discussion . i look to the moderators' posts to see the thoughts of the authority here . thank you for the liberty to reason in the discussion forum here. God bless. Clint

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Clint Demoret

I do not consider myself either one bacause i do not believe in losing your salvation but i do believe it is possible that the holy spirit speaks to us all. But don't get me wrong both sides have evidence for what they believe. Calvinists have verse that they bring up like romans ch. 9 and i believe john ch. 15 where it says that Jesus came for those who God gave him. He even told the pharisees that they were not of his. THis is what i told the Lord in prayer and it is this if it is true what calvinists say, then i will still believe on your name and follow you but if their wrong which i hope they our, then i will still be your disciple no matter what.