almost the whole of the new testament is "understood" through revelation or enlightenment.

Look at the doctrinal experts of Paul's day,the Jewish religious leaders absolutely did not have a clue!

Jesus spoke in parables and the "experts" were baffled. But he explained the parables to his flock. (revelation)
The only thing lacking in the body today is the office of Paul.

Paul decided what was from heaven.

Without this unity of spirit one mans vision can override another mans vision.
Both claim to be from God.

I believe God can and will confirm his word.

If a vision is from Him It usually is burned so deep into the person that 10 years later it is still fresh in that believer.



David

Meant to say "Welcome Walter" in my last long post.

"Welcome Walter."

[i]HE did not say that HE would write 'new laws' on our hearts, which do away with His commandments.
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Dorcas quote: How you are playing with words here, is a very serious matter, because your doctrine requires works to be added to faith, which is an [u]abomination[/u] to God, and which may lead some astray from the pure faith which God requires.[/i]
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There are many [b]abominations[/b] mentioned in scripture: homosexuality, eating swine and unclean food, sacrificing of children to other gods, making graven images, false balances, etc etc. Obeying the commandments of God because of faith in Jesus is NOT one of them. Or maybe [i]you[/i] are playing with words?

James 2: 18-26 But some one will say, [b]"You have faith and I have works." Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith[/b].
You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe -- and shudder.
[b] Do you want to be shown, you shallow man, that faith apart from works is barren?[/b]
Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
You see that [b]faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by works,[/b]
and the scripture was fulfilled which says, "[b]Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness[/b]"; and he was called the friend of God.
You see that [b]a man is justified by works and not by faith alone[/b].
And in the same way was not also Rahab the harlot justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out another way?
For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so [b]faith apart from works is dead.[/b]

Jesus strongly implied that we are missing the mark (the mark is the Torah) by [u]teaching others to relax (let alone abolish) the least of the commandments[/u] of God. In fact, He said that we are to do all that those who sit on Moses' seat (scribes and Pharisees) say for us to do. We are not to do what they do, however, as they say, but [u]they do not do[/u]. That is part of the true faith that God requires, and was taught us by our Lord Jesus!

Do you perhaps also believe in the 2 Gospels as explained to us by 'Christinyou'. quote: [i]"Gospel of Christ for Israel and The Gospel of Christ given to Paul for the Body of Christ the Church"[/i]
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Why is this discussion still being debated?

This thread is not even about the 7th day Sabbath. Yes, in words it began as such, but its underlying is ALL about speading falsness in the word and truth.

Tread carfully if you decide to continue this exchange. Souls are on the line here folks.

_________________
Christiaan

Dear Strider,

I think you know very well that the works of the law - which commended to us our death-worthiness - are not the works to which James refers.

Our righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, and the more we attempt those unkeepable commands the more we show our lack of faith in Christ.

The expositions Jesus gave before His death, are superseded by those He gave after His resurrection, which the apostles relayed to us.

Hello Strider,

This is a ps to my last post. I hope you take v 13 especially to heart.


Romans 14
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [i]alike[/i]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth [i]it[/i] unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard [i]it[/i]. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.


12 So then every one of us shall give account [u]of himself[/u] to God.

13 [u]Let us not[/u] therefore [u]judge one another[/u] any more: [b]but judge this rather[/b], [u]that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in[/u] [i]his[/i] [u]brother's way[/u].

14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that [i]there is[/i] nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him [i]it is[/i] unclean.

Dear sister katy-did,

thank you for message, please allow me to comment on a few things that you said.

first of all, I quoted what you wrote in one of your messages, asked you a few questions and yet you chose to comment on one thing I said out of the whole message.

what I was trying to point out is the fact that you had said that to enter the promise land was not conditioned to the law of God.

and Yet scriptures clearly tells us the reason why they did not enter. because that generation was called rebellious and a stiff-neck generation.

and Only two, of all of those who left Egypt entered into the promise land.

What I wanted you to see was the fact that you had written that to enter the promise land wasn't conditioned, and in fact it was.

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quote:""""God knew what He was doing by not having Moses bring them in. If that had been so, we would always be confused ..Is it Law...or is it Grace through Faith? You say both....I say not. """""


Dear sister this is what the scripture says:

Deuteronomy 7:7-8 "The LORD did not set His love on you nor choose you because you were more in number than any other people, for you were the least of all peoples; 8 "but because the LORD loves you,


The fact that God had chosen Israel as His Holy people dear sister, was an act of grace. As moses said himself, God did not choose them for something they had to offer God, but because of God's grace towards those who obeyed His voice.

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quote: """PS, However concerning Moses, you do see him standing with Jesus on the mount of Transfiguration don't you?""""

Dear sister, I have no problem in seeing God's purposes written all over scriptures. Sometimes The Almighty does things that we do not understand, but again, Isaiah said,

Isaiah 40:28 Have you not known? Have you not heard? The everlasting God, the LORD, The Creator of the ends of the earth, Neither faints nor is weary. His understanding is unsearchable.


when I asked you the question,

why was God so severe with moses?

I wanted you to think about the severity of breaking a very simple command, instead talking He hit it.

but it was disobedience just the same.

+++++


I will be replying to the second part of your message in a different message......

Hi again dear sister Katy-did.

You have posted something here that is not concerning the SAbbath, and I will reply to you this once for argument sake, but if you want to discuss if further, please let's do it privately.

I believe that the thread is about the SAbbath.

quote:""""Most Christians are amazed to learn that SDA teaches that Jesus is Michael the Archangel, but Ellen G. White said He was Michael"""""


Dear sister, quite franckly I don't have a problem with that. Is Jesus Michael?

Please I will answer you my understanding on this subject, I am not trying to convice you or anybody, so please again, if you want to talk further about this, let's do it in private. I do not want people coming to me saying I am preaching SDA doctrines, You asked, I am answering, if anybody should be told of, I should not be me.
++++++++++


This is how I see it.

Please note that I will be using only scriptures, so that you cannot say I used any source other than the bible.

Michael=

Daniel 10:21 "But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince.

Here Michael is Called the PRINCE......

You do know what a prince is, right?

the son of the King.....


Daniel 12:1 "At that time Michael shall stand up, The great prince who stands watch over the sons of your people; And there shall be a time of trouble, Such as never was since there was a nation, Even to that time.

Here Michael is not only called Prince, but He is also called the GREAT.....

Jude 1:9 Yet Michael the archangel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed about the body of Moses.

Now, we all know who the accuser is,

Revelation 12:10 Then I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, "Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren, who accused them before our God day and night, has been cast down.


And we also know who the advocate is:

1 John 2:1 My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.


Now when Michael and the devil were disputing Moses body, what do you think was going on there?

Yes, the devil was accusing and Michael was the advocate.


Revelation 12:7-8 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer.

Now if you know anything about war, you will know that when a very important battle takes place, we have in front of the army, the great commander.

It happens the same with the devil and his army,

the devil is the great commander of the evil forces, so to fight with him we have the great commander of good. Jeus Christ....

and we know for a fact that this great battle between good and evil has been all about Christ and the devil. so much so that Christ bought us back from the devil with his all blood.


1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

Now you can look at this verse in two ways.

either Jesus will return, and by His side the archangel will be shouting and God blowing His trumpet

or

Jesus Himself is the archangel and He has the trumpet of God. I believe is the later.

======


One more thing I would like to point out in regard of Jesus and angels....


We know from revelation that angels do not accept worship.

Revelation 22:8-9 Now I, John, saw and heard these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel who showed me these things. 9 Then he said to me, "See that you do not do that. For I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God."


Here it clearly tells me that angels do not accept worship, for they consider themselves servants.

but in here it happens quite different.

Judges 6:11-12 Now the Angel of the LORD came and sat under the terebinth tree which was in Ophrah, which belonged to Joash the Abiezrite, while his son Gideon threshed wheat in the winepress, in order to hide it from the Midianites. 12 And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him, and said to him, "The LORD is with you, you mighty man of valor!"

then in verse Judges 6:18-24 "Do not depart from here, I pray, until I come to You and bring out my offering and set it before You." And He said, "I will wait until you come back." 19 So Gideon went in and prepared a young goat, and unleavened bread from an ephah of flour. The meat he put in a basket, and he put the broth in a pot; and he brought them out to Him under the terebinth tree and presented them. 20 The Angel of God said to him, "Take the meat and the unleavened bread and lay them on this rock, and pour out the broth." And he did so. 21 Then the Angel of the LORD put out the end of the staff that was in His hand, and touched the meat and the unleavened bread; and fire rose out of the rock and consumed the meat and the unleavened bread. And the Angel of the LORD departed out of his sight. 22 Now Gideon perceived that He was the Angel of the LORD. So Gideon said, "Alas, O Lord GOD! For I have seen the Angel of the LORD face to face." 23 Then the LORD said to him, "Peace be with you; do not fear, you shall not die." 24 So Gideon built an altar there to the LORD.

Here the Angel of the Lord accept a sacrifice. If the Lord can the called the Angel of the Lord, why do you have a problem with Jesus being called Michael the archangel....


the bible if full of appearances of the Angel of the Lord.

I will only give you another one to show that the Angel of the Lord accept worship again...


Judges 13:18-22 And the Angel of the LORD said to him, "Why do you ask My name, seeing it is wonderful?" 19 So Manoah took the young goat with the grain offering, and offered it upon the rock to the LORD. And He did a wondrous thing while Manoah and his wife looked on -- 20 it happened as the flame went up toward heaven from the altar -- the Angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar! When Manoah and his wife saw this, they fell on their faces to the ground. 21 When the Angel of the LORD appeared no more to Manoah and his wife, then Manoah knew that He was the Angel of the LORD. 22 And Manoah said to his wife, "We shall surely die, because we have seen God!"


In this case the Angel asked them why do you ask my name?

in another case the same thing was said.

Exodus 3:2-14 And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. 3 Then Moses said, "I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn." 4 So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, "Moses, Moses!" And he said, "Here I am." 5 Then He said, "Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground." 6 Moreover He said, "I am the God of your father -- the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob." And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. 7 And the LORD said: "I have surely seen the oppression of My people who are in Egypt, and have heard their cry because of their taskmasters, for I know their sorrows. 8 "So I have come down to deliver them out of the hand of the Egyptians, and to bring them up from that land to a good and large land, to a land flowing with milk and honey, to the place of the Canaanites and the Hittites and the Amorites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites. 9 "Now therefore, behold, the cry of the children of Israel has come to Me, and I have also seen the oppression with which the Egyptians oppress them. 10 "Come now, therefore, and I will send you to Pharaoh that you may bring My people, the children of Israel, out of Egypt." 11 But Moses said to God, "Who am I that I should go to Pharaoh, and that I should bring the children of Israel out of Egypt?" 12 So He said, "I will certainly be with you. And this shall be a sign to you that I have sent you: When you have brought the people out of Egypt, you shall serve God on this mountain." 13 Then Moses said to God, "Indeed, when I come to the children of Israel and say to them, 'The God of your fathers has sent me to you,' and they say to me, 'What is His name?' what shall I say to them?" 14 And God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM."



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Genesis 32:26-29 26 And He said, "Let Me go, for the day breaks." But he said, "I will not let You go unless You bless me!" 27 So He said to him, "What is your name?" He said, "Jacob." 28 And He said, "Your name shall no longer be called Jacob, but Israel; for you have struggled with God and with men, and have prevailed." 29 Then Jacob asked, saying, "Tell me Your name, I pray." And He said, "Why is it that you ask about My name?" And He blessed him there.


again the Angel of the Lord appeared first to Moses and He identified Himself as the GREAT I AM.

and in the case of Jacob, He would not say His name.

=====

what I want you to know here dear sister is people have no problem when God Himself appeared and called Himself the Angel of the Lord. but you have a problem by Jesus being called the Archangel.

I for one, have no problem with that, I worship God the Father, Jesus Christ the Son, and the Holy Spirit, and that is sufficient for me.

God appeared to Moses and He called Himself the Angel of the Lord, I have never prayed or worship God refering to Him as the Angel of the Lord.

I have never prayed a prayer and said in the name of Michael amem.

People use this argument about michael to say that EGW is a false prophet. and that is all.....


I hope I answered your question, and as I said if you want to continue this, please PM me.

I will be answering your question about Jesus Deity in another message.


God bless you......