bro TheopenlifeGreetings in Jesus' Name by Whose BLood we are Saved.AMEN.
I agree, with the addition that it is too often a "holiness gimmick"; people are motivated to live upright lives because "who knows when you might get 'caught up'", rather than because of the plain commands and worthiness of God, and the putridness of sin. I speak on my own testimony, and of my friends who were similarly carried by the doctrine of Pre-Trib rapture.
_________________Farai Bamu
Brothers and Sisters,Back to the topic at hand.Jesus Christ, An Offence To Westernized ChristianityI wonder if this could be the reason that Jesus Christ is An Offence To 'Westernized Christianity'? because it is not Christianity at all.Check it out, after you get mad, pray and seek our Lord Jesus Christ. His grace is sufficient and it is time we believe such.http://www.yesumulungi.com/Commentary/Comment72.htmIn His Lovepastorfrin
I've read his interpretations. Now I'll see if he's right. (Though if he's right, living in Southern California doesn't suggest I'd see much for long, besides a white flash.)
Hi pastorfrin I hesitated to return to this topic, but I would like to share my feelings in this. Please dont think that I am following you around or disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing. This is an interesting topic, and it merits a sincere discussion.
Jesus Christ, An Offence To Westernized ChristianityI wonder if this could be the reason that Jesus Christ is An Offence To 'Westernized Christianity'? because it is not Christianity at all.Check it out, after you get mad, pray and seek our Lord Jesus Christ. His grace is sufficient and it is time we believe such.http://www.yesumulungi.com/Commentary/Comment72.htm
[b]Rise of Persia-Iran is Judgment to Babylon-USA[/b]Prophetic Warning and CommentaryBy Kato MivuleFebruary 4th 2007 Rise of Persia-Iran is for America's Judgment... America is jeering up for War with Iran... Yes, World War Three is at hand... America will be destroyed in this war... Iran will attack Israel in the Gog Magog War Ezekiel 38,39... America will be destroyed by Iran... Iran will be destroyed in this Battle... Gog and Magog will not win this Battle... The Lord God will defend Israel without America's Help... The Days of America are numbered... This Gog Magog war will involve Russia and China... This war will involve Nuclear weapons... This war will NOT be the end of the world... This war will be 'The Beginning of Sorrows'... The Rapture won't take place before or after this war... The Tribulation will begin after this war... The antichrist will arise out of this global chaos... The Rapture will take place after the Tribulation of those days...[b]USA moving world towards World War III [/b]Much of the news today is filled with the United States moving its war machinery to the Persian Gulf in its plan to engage Iran which it accuses of supporting rebel militias in Iraq. However, the situation should warrant all serious Christians to watch and keep up with what is going on in the Middle East. The events in this region do not substantiate an expansion of the US Empire but otherwise its demise. The US is moving the world towards a nuclear holocaust and a Gog Magog war that will claim millions of lives. However, it is imperative that Christians realise that this coming war will not be the end of the world but the Begging of Sorrows as Jesus Christ spoke about it in Matthew 24. [i]Matthew 24:6-8(6) And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.(7) For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.(8) All these are the beginning of sorrows.[/i] We are getting into a time that very severe alterations are coming as pertains to the current world lifestyles. The adjustments are going to be so severe that current world systems will fail and therefore need for new systems. It is in this light that the rebellious anti God and antichrist systems are going to be ushered in.
We are witnessing the demise of the world's only empire-USAWhat we are witnessing is the transition from current world system to the New World Order. We are witnessing the demise of one world empire The USA and the rise of another one world empire One World Government Antichrist System. Certainly the coming Middle East war will be a climax of the clash of the West and Islamic civilizations that has already begun. Make no mistake about it, the Iran US war will usher in great sorrows. This coming war will not go as planned by the Americans but it will go as planned by The Lord God of Heaven and Earth. The implications here are great. It means that we are seeing Bible prophesy being fulfilled before our eyes that is if you live through this coming Nuclear Holocaust in the Middle East. No Turning Back from Doom's Day...There is no turning back from this point onwards. I say this for two reasons. One is that Israel will NOT coexist with a nuclear-armed Iran that has made its intentions to wipe Israel of the world map. Secondly, the US and pursuit for more Oil treasures as she continues her conquest of more middle east territories and expand her empire. The USA's foreign policy is driven by greed for more oil and this is what is causing all the wars around the world currently. Iran has large oil deposits and the USA out of greed seeks to control them. Did the Bible not say that the root of ALL Evil is love for money? America's Capitalistic egos are leading her to death! Her salivating for the control of Oil deposits in the Middle East is surely what is going to kill her.
I wonder if this could be the reason that Jesus Christ is An Offence To 'Westernized Christianity'? because it is not Christianity at all.Check it out, after you get mad, pray and seek our Lord Jesus Christ. His grace is sufficient and it is time we believe such.
_________________Christopher
Chris,Hey Brother, I believe you are absolutely right, there is no way Iran could destroy Babylon in the natural. One question though, is it actually Iran who destroys Babylonor is it the Lord? I do believe it is the Lord and with Him, ALL things are possible.Might want to watch, just in case, maybe even get our house in order, like maybe get our eyes off the things of this world and on the Lord Jesus Christ; or we could dismiss it all and go on our merry ways.Luke 12:19-21 And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry. [20] But God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided? [21] So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God. Maybe this is actually the issue at hand, you know Babylon and all. :-) In His Lovepastorfrin
What is the "Bible colleges and intellectualism of christianity" doctrine?
_________________Benjamin Kreps
Chris, just thought I'd throw this in for balance...The very same Ephraem also wrote the opposite:Ephraim the Syrian (306-373): "Nothing remains then, except that the coming of our enemy, Antichrist, appear..." (Sermo Asceticus, I)."As well, Pseudo-Ephraem (believed 4th century) wrote: "...there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one [Antichrist]..." (On the Last Times, the Antichrist etc., 2).It is believed that either he oscillated because of earlier confusion, or his previous statement must be interpreted in light of his other statements. Perhaps he thought that the church would be unified from its schisms before the Antichrist come?Either way, the age of an heresy makes it the more wrinkled, but no less heresy. Call Pre-Trib a "classic", but I believe the scriptures are emphatic enough. Have you read Eli Brayleys posts about the subject? They helped inform me, and they are at his timothyministries blog.
Hi theopenlife...
It is believed that either he oscillated because of earlier confusion, or his previous statement must be interpreted in light of his other statements. Perhaps he thought that the church would be unified from its schisms before the Antichrist come?
pastorfrin wrote:
Maybe this is actually the issue at hand, you know Babylon and all.
BRO ChrisGreetings in Jesus' Name by Whose Blood we are Saved.AMEN.
What harm is there in a persuasion toward a pre-trib rapture if there is an acute awareness that it is merely a possibility? Are we so bold as to label it a "false doctrine?" It is my belief that neither "pre-trib" OR "post-trib" should even be a DOCTRINE. They are merely possibilities concerning the End Times. I feel that all believers should at least be AWARE of the various beliefs -- without the fingers pointed by would-be "experts" or "prophets" of an opposing belief willing to publicly call an alternate theory a "LIE."
Thus, I am neither pre-trib or post-trib. I feel that I am very well read on the issue (including both pre-trib and post-trib thoughts). I just don't know with enough certainty to stake a final conclusion. I suspect that our brother Kato (or anyone else) does not know with enough complete certainty to stake such a claim either. I certainly don't feel that there is enough evidence to turn either belief into a mandatory "doctrine" of the Church. So what if a person is not completely convinced one way or the other? The important thing is that a believer maintains an intimate relationship with Christ. They should be willing to serve Him through the persecutions of this world, and if need be, the wrath of God upon this world.
What does that mean for Kato's "prophecy" as voiced on his webpage (using the link provided by Brother pastorfrin)? He claims that Iran will be the vessel used to destroy "heathen" America. Some of the same "prophets" (not referring to Brother Kato) were pointing the same prophetic finger at Iraq (instead of Iran) both five and 17 years ago (just before both Iraq wars).
With all of America's vices, I have never believed that it is the most sinful nation on the Earth. There are many wonderful believers in this nation.
With all of America's vices, I have never believed that it is the most sinful nation on the Earth. There are many wonderful believers in this nation. No one could honestly deny the influence of Protestant Christianity upon our nation. When compared to pagan nations like China, Japan, India, Muslim nations and Communist nations -- America is a land (for better or for worse) of liberty.
A couple of years ago, would-be prophets were declaring that Hurricane Katrina was a judgment of God upon sinful New Orleans. It could have been. But I would wonder why God chose to judge New Orleans over San Francisco, New York, Los Angeles, Los Vegas, Amsterdam, Pyongyang, Paris, Beijing, Tokyo, New Delhi, Khartoum, or Tehran?
Gross immorality is "normal" and completely legal in some cities. Christianity is still persecuted and largely prohibited around the globe! And God chose to pour out "judgment" upon New Orleans -- sadly resulting in the death of the poor residents instead of the sinful or immoral? It just didn't make sense then, and I'm not quite so sure that it makes sense now.
I understand the analogy of America and Babylon as recorded in Revelation 17. It does seem to be indicative of America (at least in the context of our time). However, this is not completely certain. In the past, some have pointed to specific cities (like New York or Rome). It has been used to refer to Empires (like Rome, Britain or the Roman Catholic Church). I have even read writings that articulated a belief that the Babylon was indicative of the Arab world. The point is that we cannot be conclusively certain about the meaning of this passage. We can only be persuaded as to its possible meaning.
Yet the "prophets" continue to "prophesy." I suppose that there is a danger of becoming like one of the townspeople in Aesop's The Boy Who Cried Wolf. For every false prophesy or loud proclamation that never comes to pass, some people might become less receptive to the voice of a true prophet. I suppose the safe thing is, as pastorfrin says, consider the information. We shouldn't have to "get our house in order" because of the fear of the future. Our house should ALWAYS be in order. We should always be prepared for the End and "Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your LORD doth come" (Matthew 24:42). The key, I suppose, is to WATCH, PRAY and BE READY.
As far as the prophecy uttered by Brother Kato, I really don't know what to think. I disagree with some of his assertions about the motives of the United States regarding operations in Iraq. His subtle implications between these "words of warning" do strike me of yet another conspiracy theory. But I will not worry. Who cares WHEN and HOW the end will come? We just need to know that it is coming. I will continue to make seeking and fellowshipping with Christ my number one objective for life. As we watch with longing and homesick anticipation for our groom, why should we fear about what happens between now and his arrival?
