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InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2850
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

You may find some helpful information [url=http://www.exadventist.com/]HERE[/url]

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2007/8/22 9:22Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Is your Sabbath on Saturday or Sunday? I choose to celebrate the Sabbath every day. I am in Christ and He is in me, that makes Him my rest and my Sabbath. I choose to go to church on Sunday and not forsake the assembling of ourselves for His Bodies sake.



I choose to observe the Sabbath every day too, however I dont know how you can then say that you choose to go "to church" on Sunday as to not forsake the assembling...

Why do you not go all the way and be the Church, and seek out brethren to live in true New Testament fellowship. Not going "to church" on Sunday is not forsaking the assembly... I believe that is acutally often the very opposite, that we forsake the assembly by following man made traditions and "going to church" on Sunday rather then striving for true fellowship.

In Christ - Jim

 2007/8/22 9:26
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re: The Sabbath?

Jayme-we as Christians should keep the Sabbath Holy unto the LORD-we should indeed honour the Sabbath.

Many people believe that the Sabbath (which Biblically is Saturday, not Sunday) was only for the Children of Israel-THAT IS NOT TRUE. We know this; because the Sabbath was instituted BEFORE the Jewish people even existed. People forget the Sabbath was made/instituted AT CREATION!! Not after Abraham got here. Lets look at the commandment:

Eoxdus 20:8 REMEMBER the sabbath to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, NOR THY STRANGER that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the SABBATH DAY, and HALLOWED it.

This is what God wrote as the 4th Commandment to Moses and the Children of Israel.

First of all, you cannot tell someone to REMEMBER something, unless it has PREVIOUSLY EXISTED, or have been told. You cannot REMEMBER something that you have never been told or experienced.

Adam himself, the first man, was even supposed to keep the sabbath-because remember Adam did work, he tilled the ground. (Gen 2:15 15 And the LORD God took the man, F12 and put him into the garden of Eden TO DRESS IT AND KEEP IT.)

This is the thing, the very last thing God made was Man, he made man on the Sixth day-then right after that, as he saw EVERYTHING he made was good, he rested on the SEVENTH DAY. Thus God rested on the sabbath(seventh) day right AFTER he made man (Adam). Adam who in fact was not Hebrew/Jewish or not even a Child of Israel-but years later Jesus Christ our Lord makes this statement:
Mark 2:27 And he (Jesus) said unto them, The sabbath was made FOR MAN, and not man for the sabbath.

Jesus didn't say the sabbath was made of the Children of Israel, he said the sabbath was MADE FOR MAN!!!

The Greek word for man in this verse is " Anthropos"-which means HUMAN BEINGS, Man-kind
Another way we know this, is because in Exodus 20:8, God also said even the STRANGER (someone not Hebrew) shall observe the sabbath to keep it holy who is in thy gates.

The Children of Israel were the first people, as a people to be God's people-so this is why of course the knowledge of the True & Living God was given to them and even the Commandments of God-because at that time no other people on earth were God's people-only they were.

Let's look at something else:

Exodus 31:16 Wherefore the children of Israel shall keep the sabbath, to observe the sabbath throughout their generations, FOR A PERPETUAL COVENANT.
Some would say this verse only is for strictly the Children of Israel-let's examine this.

PERPETUAL, means for ever, non-ending, everlasting.

The apostle Paul, who was a Jew, who lived AFTER the resurrection and ascension of Jesus Christ-who though he was Jewish, became a Christian BUT STILL KEPT THE SABBATH, even though he was an apostle TO THE GENTILES. This is the same Paul who writes in Col 2:14 about the blotting out of ordinances....nailing them to his cross.

Acts 13: 13 Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem.

14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue ON THE SABBATH DAY, and sat down.
Right after that, Paul stands up and preaches Christ to EVERYONE in the synagogue...then look what happens:

42 And when the Jews were GONE OUT of the synagogue, the GENTILES besought that these words might be preached TO THEM THE NEXT SABBATH. * Why were Gentiles in the synagogue on the sabbath day listening to law and the prophets read by the rulers of the synagogue, then hear the message of Christ by Paul in the synagouge on the sabbath if THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE SABBATH WAS, or if they didn't keep it too themselves-remembering that Exodus 20:8 "..the stranger in thy gates also shall keep it holy. Note, this is also AFTER the death & ascension of Christ)
43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God. 44 AND THE NEXT SABBABTH DAY came almost the whole city together to hear the WORD OF GOD. ( The Word of God is Jesus Christ, so on the next SABBATH DAY Jews & Gentiles came to hear about JESUS CHRIST-on the sabbath THAT WAS MADE FOR MAN)
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming. 46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should FIRST (not ONLY) have been spoken to you: but seeing YE PUT IT FROM YOU, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, saying, I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

The apostle Paul who was a Jew, who became a Christian, preached on the SABBATH day to Jews & Gentiles in the synagoguge-and the Gentiles requested to hear the word of God ON THE NEXT Sabbath day- if Jesus nailed the sabbath day to the cross, why in the world is the apostle Paul still honoring it-there were even Gentiles which were ordained to believe-who believed ON THE SABBATH DAY-they came to believe on Jesus Christ on the SABBATH DAY!!!! (Because truly, the sabbath day in all it's glory and Blessedness that God Blessed it with, does reveal who the LORD is. (Exodus 31:13 Speak thou also unto the children of Israel, saying, Verily my sabbaths ye shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that ye may know that I am the LORD that doth sanctify you.)

This is the same Paul that wrote : Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

Paul was NOT talking about the 10 Commandments, he was talking about the Law of Moses-this is proven clearly in scripture. Notice this

Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances THAT WAS AGAINST US, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

"..that was AGAINST US.." The Holy Bible NEVER declares that the 10 Commandments written by God with his own finger was ever "against us"-however, the Holy Word of God does declare that the Law of Moses was " against us" (referring to the Jewish people)

Deut 31:24 And it came to pass, when Moses had made AN END OF WRITTING THE WORDS OF THIS in a book, until they were finished, 25 That Moses commanded the Levites, which bare the ark of the covenant of the LORD, saying, 26 Take this book of the law, and put IT IN THE SIDE of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, THAT IT MAY BE THERE FOR A WITNESS AGAINST THEE 27 For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?

The 10 Commandments were written by God himself BOTH times in STONE with his own finger-and the Bible NEVER says the 10 Commandments were "against us". however, the Law of Moses was written by Moses with his hand, and Moses emphatically declares there were written as a witness against the Children of Israel.

What Christ blotted out and nailed to his cross was the Law of Moses-not the 10 Commandements.

This will be my last point. God wrote the 10 Commandments, which is the Law of God (not Moses) ON/IN STONE- Later on in the Bible, we find out that Christ was the ROCK(stone) that they drank from in the wilderness, and also that : Christ was the STONE that was set at nought and now had become the chief Head stone.

In other Words, Christ all throughout scripture Old & New has been a Rock/Stone-God wrote or put the 10 Commandements ON or inside the ROCK-the ROCK is JESUS CHRIST-in other words, even from the begining, God put his Commandments IN JESUS Christ, and only those INSIDE of Jesus Christ will truly obey them. People of today, even so called Christians are STILL setting " that stone" at nought-which is the Law of God-CHrist is and has ALWAYS been the Word & Law of God.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. 11 THIS IS THE STONE which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. 12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Once again, the Law of God has always revealed who God is-

1 Cor 10:4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

To all who claim to follow or have faith in Christ, this is the last verse I quote-pertaining to pleasing God and Salvation-even the keeping of ALL the Commandments of God;

Revelation 14: 12 Here is the patience of the SAINTS: here are they THAT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and THEIR WORKS DO FOLLOW THEM.

It is an honor for me to keep the Sabbath of the Lord Holy, as well as all his Commandments. If you say Christ nailed keeping the sabbath to the Cross, then you have to also say he nailed "thou shalt not kill to the cross", you would have to also say he nailed " I am the LORD thy God....ye shall have no other God's besides me to the cross as well", you would have to say he also nailed to the Cross " Honour thy Father and Mother, that thy days may be long upon the earth..."

Simply put, God have not done away with his Commandments;

Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the SAINTS: here are they THAT KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS OF GOD,AND THE FAITH OF JESUS.

There is a wonderful book: " The Ten Commandments Twice Removed" by Danny Shelton and Shelley Quinn, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND IT in the name of JESUS.














 2007/8/22 13:13Profile









 Re:

Quote:
If you say Christ nailed keeping the sabbath to the Cross, then you have to also say he nailed "thou shalt not kill to the cross", you would have to also say he nailed " I am the LORD thy God....ye shall have no other God's besides me to the cross as well", you would have to say he also nailed to the Cross " Honour thy Father and Mother, that thy days may be long upon the earth..."



Acutally Christ and the whole NT expound on the true reason and meaning of these commands just as the Sabbath... if you so much as hate your brother you are a murderer and are in violation of the law.

It is so sad that we would move back towards the letter of law rather then complete, sold out, 100%, Spirit filled, New Testament Chrsitianity EVERYDAY. (I know this will not make much sense to those who define there christian experience by going to a building once or twice a week)

In the old cov we temple worshipped one day a week, in the new cov we do this EVERY day , because we are radical new creatures in Christ Jesus and live every day not for this world but for His kingdom. Anything less is not Christianity, no matter how cleverly packaged it is.


In Christ -Jim

 2007/8/22 13:25
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Yes we worship everyday, but even that is not nullify the keeping the specific day that God himself in all his Holiness set-apart since the end of the beginning of time.
We worship everyday, we also WORK everyday-but we still are to worship & keep the Sabbath day Holy unto the LORD.

The DAY of Pentecost came, and the apostle Paul was not there, for he was not converted yet, but after his conversion he still celebrated the DAY of Pentecost with the rest of the brethren.
The physical day itself was STILL celebrated, not just the incident that took and was to take place.

Honouring the Sabbath day, keeping it Holy does in fact no way make one return to the " letter of the law" ( unless I am just misunderstanding your statement)
" Thou shalt not kill"
"Whoso hateth his brother is a murderer" is the same thing-both kept by the Spirit of God in us that we may obey God. For even though I may not hate my brother, that doesn't mean I can hate my enemy.

The Law of God does not kill, it converts the soul.
Psalm 19:7 The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.

 2007/8/22 13:38Profile









 Re:

as it it says in hebrews 4 let us enter into that rest...

How can we keep one day Holy only if every day is a Sabbath and is Holy unto the Lord?

Colossians 2:16 NIV
Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. 17These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

 2007/8/22 13:45
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Quote:
you cannot tell someone to REMEMBER something, unless it has PREVIOUSLY EXISTED, or have been told. You cannot REMEMBER something that you have never been told or experienced.



Please, please read this post carefully and prayerfully...

I politely remind you that your logic is flawed. Recall that Jesus told the disciples at the last supper, "do this in remembrance of me." He too was giving a command to hold in remembrance that which was just then being given. Likewise, at Mount Sinai, the Lord instituted the mandate of sabbath to be remembered from that time on.

Read Numbers 15:32-36, that a man was found [b]gathering sticks[/b] on the sabbath. His sentence was death.

"The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. 36And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; [b]as the LORD commanded Moses[/b]."

Yet, before the death and resurrection Christ, Jesus told a man to [b] pick up his bed[/b] on sabbath. Have you not read John 5:16-18,

"Therefore did the Jews persecute Jesus, and sought to slay him, because he had done these things on the sabbath day.
17But Jesus answered them, [b]My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.[/b]
18Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God."

Albert Barnes commented,

"Worketh hitherto. Worketh until now, or till this time. God has not ceased to work on the Sabbath. He makes the sun to rise; he rolls the stars; he causes the grass, the tree, the flower to grow. He has not suspended his operations on the Sabbath, and the obligation to rest on the Sabbath does not extend to him. He created the world in six days, and ceased the work of creations; but he has not ceased to govern it, and to carry forward, by his providence, his great plans on the Sabbath.

And I work. "As God does good on that day; as he is not bound by the law which requires his creatures to rest on that day, so I do the same. The law on that subject may be dispensed with, also, in my case, for the Son of man is Lord of the Sabbath." In this reply it is implied that he was equal with God from two circumstances"

There was nothing Jesus was more opposed to than hypocrisy; and nothing that he set himself more against than those who suppose all goodness consists in forms, and all piety in the Shibboleths of a party."

Jesus has effectively told all of us to "take up our bed" and walk out of the covenant of works, into the covenant of grace, which is associated with the moral law of love.

---------- Warning against Hypocrisy -------

NO "BURGER KING" SABBATHS - You can't "Have It Your Way" with the Sabbath. God specifies how it was to be kept.

-It was to be kept from sunset to sunset (Lev. 23:32)
-No burden was to be carried (Jer. 17:21)
-No fire kindled (Ex. 35:3)
-No Cooking done (Ex. 16:23)
-The penalty for doing any of these things during the Sabbath was DEATH (Numbers 15).


NO "INSPIRED" WRITER MAKES ANY DISTINCTION BETWEEN THE "MORAL" LAW & THE "CEREMONIAL" LAWS.

"(2) The Sabbath in its nature, is itself a ceremonial law: the moral law is all law which appeals to the conscience, and needs no written revelation; but as to which day to observe, or whether to observe any day at all, conscience is silent. If we are to distinguish between the moral and the ceremonial law, on the ground that one is passed, and the other still in force, then--as the Sabbath is purely ceremonial law--it is passed. But the most important point still remains. (3) I, as a Christian, obey all law that is moral in the Decalogue, not because it is in the Law, but because it is in the Gospel. Worship of God only is enjoined fifty times in the New Testament; idolatry is forbidden twelve times; profanity four times; honor of father and mother is commanded six times; adultery is forbidden twelve; theft six; false witness four; and covetousness, nine times. "The Ten Commandments," as Luther says, "do not apply to us Gentiles and Christians, but only to the Jews." So the Sabbath--except in a single passage where, classing it with the entire law, he declares it has been totally abolished. So the early Church held."

--D. M. Panton, cited in Heresies Exposed, Compiled by Irvine, pp. 164-165.

 2007/8/22 13:50Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

That is because everyday is NOT a Sabbath.
We are to live Holy unto the LORD everyday, the 7th Day God choose himself to Bless & HALLOW-read the creation-NO other day did he Bless & Hallow, the only day He Hallowed was the 7th

Col 2:16 is not referring to the 10 Commandments, but rather, the various 640 other ordinances that once again Moses instituted-also just to point, the NIV is NOT the Word of God!!
Unless you typed it wrong, but Col 2:16 does not say " or a sabbath day (singular)" it says " or of the sabbath dayS (plural)-in the Law of Moses there were OTHER Sabbath days that were NOT the same as the Sabbath Day. The Sabbath was made BEFORE the 10 Commandments or even the Law of Moses.

Paul was talking to Gentile Christians about Jewish Christians trying to make them keep the Mosaic law.......

Oh, by the way, Check out Dan 3:25 in the KJV and the NIV and see the horrible difference.

The NIV makes Jesus the son of pagans -whereas we know he is the only beogotten Son of God

Dan 3:25 in KJV & NIV compare the two for yourself-if God is ONE, which He is, then he ONLY has ONE Word.

And regarding Heb 4, he said let us labour TO ENTER into that rest, this was a man in Christ, who yet says " let us labour TO ENTER. TO ENTER means WE HAVE NOT YET ENTERED, even though I am currently in Christ right now. Even Revelation points that out, that we do NOT ENTER INTO until we have literally physically died in the earth

Revelation 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which DIE IN the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

TO ENTER means you have not entered yet........Paul even speaks this of himself, he says " Let US (referring to himself, the audience, and the reader)

 2007/8/22 14:01Profile
BlazedbyGod
Member



Joined: 2007/8/22
Posts: 462


 Re:

Did not Jesus say:

Matt 12:12 How much then is a man better than a sheep? Wherefore it is lawful to do well on the sabbath days 13 Then saith he to the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it forth; and it was restored whole, like as the other.

Of course it is right to do the work of God on the Sabbath-to heal, to preach, to minister etc...

This is the same thing Jesus said, did, and meant even in John 5:16-18

 2007/8/22 14:07Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

Blazed, please read my post again. I believe you misunderstood what I wrote.

 2007/8/22 14:14Profile





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