Today modern christianity to one varying degree
TO another seems to be returning back to the
above title of...."ANTINOMIANISM"

What pray-tell is "anti-nomianism" someone asks ??

It was something used to coin - " a phrase "
in the "early church" by our church fathers to
describe a certain "breed" of alleged "believer"
that taught that the "LAW" of God was to be
REJECTED/ OR WAS MADE VOID - ALTOGETHER,
UNDER THE NEW TESTMENT DISPENSATION OF GRACE !

They were throwing out the law and the command-
ments altogether, and persuading all and sundry
the under grace - the "law" has no place
whatso-ever, in the life of... believers.

This thinking and rationale is very popular today

Ive attended meetings for instance and the
speaker will "un-abashedly" proclaim - that the
ten commandments and the LAW - IS NOT OVER US !!

Now that "in part" is [true] - in that we who
are "gentile believer's according to the flesh" were never subject to "law" ( as the israelites were under it's - yoke - as such )

But if we stop their - and intimate THAT under
New-testament... the LAW - SERVES NO PLACE AT
ALL, THEN WE DO A DIS-SERVICE TO THE BOOKS OF
ROMANS AND GALATIONS AND MANY OTHER BOOKS.

But at this juncture let me be quiet for a moment
and let us read from Paul - and what he says.

Indeed let GOD be TRUE - and every man a liar !!

** ROM 3:31 "DO we make VOID the LAW through
faith ? ( answer is ) GOD FORBID: YEA WE ESTABLISH
THE.... "LAW"

** ROM 7:7 " WHAT SHALL WE SAY THEN IS THE "LAW"
SIN ?? ( REPLY ) GOD FORBID !

** ROM 7:12 " Therefore the law is ...HOLY, AND
THE COMMANDMENT HOLY, and JUST, AND ...."GOOD"

GAL 3:21 " Is the LAW then AGAINST the promises
of God ?? ( answer ) GOD FORBID !!

**1 TIM 1:8 " But we know that the LAW is GOOD,
if a man uses it - lawfully "

** JAM 2:9 " But if you have respect to persons,
ye COMMIT SIN, and are CONVINCED of the... LAW
AS TRANSGRESSORS. fOR WHO EVER KEEPS THE WHOLE
LAW, AND YET OFFEND IN "ONE POINT" - HE IS
GUILTY OF ALL. !!

** JAM 2:11 says this if i don't commit any
adulteries and take pride in that obedience,
but yet i on the other hand am guilty of murder
then i have become a transgressor...of the "LAW"
And will be judged by the..."LAW"

**1John 3:4 JOHN the beloved apostle gives us a
DESCRIPTION of SIN - " WHOSOEVER COMMITHETH SIN
TRANGRESSETH ALSO THE..."LAW": FOR SIN IS THE -
THE TRANSGRESSION OF THE LAW.

**Matthew 5:17-18 " THINK NOT THAT I CAME TO
DESTROY..."LAW" NOR THE PROPHETS: I AM COME
NOT FOR TO DESTROY BUT TO FULFIL.
{ JESUS GOES ON TO SAY IT EASY FOR HEAVEN AND
EARTH TO DISSAPPEAR - THAN FOR A SINGLE COMMA OR
A SINGLE QUESTION MARK OF THE "LAW" TO VANISH
AWAY - OR TO "PASS" AWAY FROM - THE "LAW"

TO what purpose then serveth the law ?? if we
are under Grace then ??

As Paul said by "law" - is the "knowledge" of SIN
( Rom 3:19-20 ) the law stops every mouth and
shows the world ...it's guilt... before God.

PAUL SAID he would not have known lust - except
the Law pointed out to me " thou shalt not covet"
( ROM 7:7 )

Furthermore in Romans 7:16 as Paul articulates
the power of sin and it's entrapment of the flesh
"IF then i do that which i would not, then that
is an acknowledgement or a consent - to myself, that the "law" ....of God is actually - good. !

But still some man will respond by saying: ahh
but yes the "law" only applies - to sinners to
lead them to a point of conversion, and then
he is free from God's laws - as such

TRUE or False though brethren ??

Christ hath redeemed me from the "curse" of the
law - many will cite - as proof of point.

HOWEVER what was Paul teaching ?? that GOD's
perfect laws are a "curse" or was he pointed
out that the curse lies in this " that if you
don't continue in "all things" - written by the
law of Moses - then a curse will befall you
and a curse, - then awaits you !!

Paul is simply saying that "dreaded curse which
is garanteed if you break one thing has now been
removed ( and that curse promised us - has lost
it's...sting ) Jesus has lifted/ removed from us that promised - "curse" GLORY !!!

That was a hard and unyeilding curse which was
inclusive of ALL the ordinances and statutes, all
orders of tabernacle, sacrifice, burnt offerings
etc etc SO thank God for Jesus, that he became
a curse on the tree, so that those Laws ( every )
ordinance and obligation, along with it's promised
curse for breaking them - has been stanched.
( that is stopped )

So glory that we are not under the Dueteronomy
promised curse - But that does that absolve us
from all ..."law"... GOD FORBID brethren.

Law is what sensitizes our conscience and trains
our conscience to what is [ right and wrong ] -
remember Paul said this " I did not know lust
at all, but that the law said [hey you] - that
is an offence and you are guilty of... "coveting"

And so the "law" of God nailed Paul, and made him
acutely aware, that such a thing is a - violation and (against the holy, JUST, and GOOD commandments
of... God ) !!

ROMANS eight is very clear that by CHRIST - and
through "faith" in his life...that he God - still
wants the " righteousness of the "law" to be
[fulfilled in us] even under new testament Grace
(romans 8:4) and this is accomplished in us by
walking in the spirit, and not after the flesh.

Indeed we are under the law of Christ now as Paul
stated to and at corinth - but what Paul
simply means is " all of God's law is fulfilled
in us -by that perfect life of Christ.

And that Christ is the end of the "law" ...for
"righteousness"

HENCE nobody is - justified - or saved - or made
righteous; by abiding by "law" ( keeping law )

You now are made righteous and receive the imputed
righteousness of Christ, by faith - and not
by the keeping of the... law !!

In other words righteosness ( right standing
with God) is obtained by the righteousness of
Christ ...and that "sinless" life.... he lived.

And not by Law - or through the keeping of what Moses gave to them.... in "old-testament"


Israel sought "justification" by the works of
the law, and not by the law of "faith"

Indeed they followed after righteousness, but as
it were - by the.... "works of the law"

The law gave us knowledge of sins commited -
but the fulfillment of righteousness in us, and
right standing with God - can only be obtained
by submitting to the righteousness which is by
faith - the law of faith ...in Christ.

Paul again states in 1 timothy 1:10 that anything
contrary to sound doctrine then is - "lawless"
and therefore is against the ..."laws" of GOD.

Law comes into play when we sin and offend - and
Law is still how God will judge the world by
his just and - "holy standard"

The law exists for transgression, for sin,
for law-breaking, to convict and convince all of
sin - when a violation has occurred - against GOD.


Only that we must know this: that by the deeds or
the keeping of - "law" is no flesh...saved or
justified - in God's sight.

This then eliminates: boasting, and saved by works
mind-set, or i keep the law therefore im saved,i keep this law, and i am lawful and good, and
am derserving of entering into heaven just like
everyone else... mind-set !!

DO we under grace: make void the law ??

Nay

WE ESTABLIsH !!

_________________
Bro Stephen

May I ask brother, are you a messianic? We would agree on some points concerning law for I am a kingdom believer. Just checking you out.

bro Doug

Not at all ....brother

IM not messianic

I believe i fully understand justification
by faith and new-testament -grace

Don't mis-understand the posting !!

Many today teach the "law" under grace
is something bad or even - despised

Others say flat-out - we are not under any "law"

well Paul did not say that - did he

he still said gentiles are also under the
"law of christ"

his righteous life for our unrighteous life

By faith !!

And justification indeed by faith ( of Course )

But to preach the law is a curse !!!

Is not what Paul meant in Galations

THE curse is in the "failure" - to abide by
every "single ordinance" moses gave to the Jews.

Miss on any "one thing" - on the keeping of (law) - and whammo - the curse would come on you
and befall you !! that is the "curse" of the law

and not as modern teachers say: the law itself
is "the curse"

How so ?? THERE is no contradictions in the WORD

PAUL has earlier in ROMANS stated: the law
is good, the law is holy, and just !!

How can the law be good - and a curse at the
same time ??

GO FIGURE !

_________________
Bro Stephen

Paris Reidhead on anti-nomianism:

"Paul saw that rodent born in hell stick its nose above the grating, and stomped upon it in Romans 6..."

_________________
Hal Bachman

Brother,

I may sound dense, don't mean to, but what is your definition of law? Is it Torah, New Covenant based Christ teachings, pic and choose? What position are you coming from so I could better comment on the subject? I want to speak without misunderstanding.

I to believe in law and want to submit with all my being. To do so is to love God and obey. That I would say we both agree on.

bro Doug

HOW DOES ONE DEFINE LAW ??

AND THEN PUT IT INTO A " NEW TESTAMENT EQUATION" ?

Personally i don't agree with the Torah definition

Many people say Torah should substitute for...LAW

( AND WHAT THEY ARE SAYING AND MEAN BY THAT IS "THE WORD... LAW" ) AS SUCH

Was a "mis-translation" - ON THE PART OF THE NEW -TESTAMENT TRANSLATORS !

BUT I STRONGLY dis-agree, that the "word" [torah] should - replace the word [law]...IN SCRIPTURE

SO my stance is: I firmly believe the word "law"
is always the correct translation into THE ENGLISH LANGUAGE, AND I TRUST THE TRANSLATORS DID GET IT RIGHT - IN THE FIRST INSTANCE.

And i have faith that the (kjv translators) got
it right....when they translated the word "law"
into - both old and the new testament !

So that is the first thing you must understand with me - regarding this thing of - "LAW"

How can the word Torah - replace the word LAW ??

How does a five letter word, become a 3 letter
word ?? when translating ?? or vice-versa ??

YOU tell me - How - does that work ??

AND if you replace the word "law [with .....Torah]

THEN It greatly diminishes - the impact of what GOD sought and seeks to convey in the scripture !


ONE preacher who is false in my view said that
the word TORAH should replace "law" in the
new-testament, and that the english translators
got it all....wrong !! ( end quote )

No the only person who's got it all wrong is that
false teacher !

Let's entertain his notion for a few moments.

PUT the word "torah" into in romans 6 & 7 & 8 instead of word ... "LAW"

And see if it has the same impact or delivery ?

NO way: be not deceived with all this Torah talk !

The word is not found amongst the pages - even ... "once" ...in the king James bible.


Therefore i reject it's use - and i reject and refute those who say "torah" is a better translation and rendering into the new-testament -rather than that of the word.... ["LAW"]


Is an incredible mistake of immense and monumental
proportions !!

IF the word don't exist in the KJV friend then
it's probably the invention of "lawyers" or
seminary proffessors, or some "theologian" or
some - DOCTOR of the LAW or doctor of divinity.

When are we going to trust the ( kjv translators )

Law defined in simple terms: is GOD'S STANDARD
TO MANKIND FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS AND for... HOLINESS

Don't complicate things friends

Remember this law also ( k.i.s.s )"keep it simple
silly" - and Paul's concern to the corinthians no
doubt targeted the shrewd false teachers, who
sought to beguile people away - from the simplicity that is found in... Christ.

God is not the author of confusion either !!!

TOrah and all this confusion over LAW is the work
of cunning spirits - and doctrines of devils.

WHICH muddie the waters - and cloud issues.

LAW means standard - and law defines what not to
"DO" and if you breach and go against the "shalt
nots" in scripture, then your a law-breaker and have transgressed the ...law of GOD.

PAUL didn't complicate or confuse issues, and breaking the laws of the land is the same in
meaning as breaking God's law.

Break the laws of the land - and your in breach, you have violated, you have offended, you have transgressed, and a punishment and penalty awaits you. ( you are at fault and in error )

It's the same deal with GOD - go against his perfect standard of righteousness and his perfect
laws - and you are in error and at fault !!

There's nothing hard about it - friends

IN fact look up in any good dictionary what law
is - and you can come to very good definition.

I.E from readers digest dictionary (" rule, conduct, governing principle, edict, standing order, decree, ordinance, precept, commandment)

I think you get the point !!

HOW many of you know that the apostle Paul uses
the word "ordinance" and the word "rule"
in the "new-testament" ohh yes he did especially in the book of Corinthians & other places also.

SO my bottom-line is DOUG - that i trust the translators of the KING JAMES VERSION implicitly

So therefore i don't get caught up in all this
talk about talmud, torah, septuagint etc etc

If i don't see it that version, then i don't struggle with it, or wrestle with all these other
terminologies - that people like to throw around, and bandy all about. !!!

SATAN is the author of "confusion"
GOD is the author of "peace" and truth
And truth my friend, that is delivered with a GODLY simplicity about it ( amen and amen )

Have a great day
in the savior !! ( amen )

_________________
Bro Stephen

S.o.f.

It seems that through that which you wrote the law that you would hold to is a pic and choose. Am I not correct? One must have a clear definition of their interpretation of law so as to submit. I personally only hold to the Kingdom of God laws. Many of which are found in the Old Covenant but are reiterated in the New. I hold to only those commands in the New Covenant and those that have been reiterated. For Christ said, that we must obey His commandments. This is my thought on the laws themselves. There is no doubt about it that this "modern church" is anti standard. We to often hear "No longer under law but in grace!"

This is a lie and deception.

NOT so doug

The holy standard never changes

The levitical and ceremonial aspects of the ...law

indeed have changed though ( book of hebrews )

The law is therefore - for "law-breakers"...[doug]

And the law serves it purpose - in this way.

IF a man is righteous - then the LAW is not
something that effects him ( in any way !! )

But if a man is in transgression or commits sin.

Then the LAW is their to convince and to convict
him of the violation - committed and incurred.

The LAW as Paul stated ...was ADDED - due to
transgressions commited.

The Law therefore never has, nor ever will - SAVE
A man ...from his sins.

It's role it to reveal the standard set by...GOD.

BUT never to save the soul ( as such )

SO therefore going from old covenant to new
covenant - the law which reveals right from
wrong - still is... and remains in force.

That said: the law is good - on "the condition"
that a man uses ( the law ) in context and uses
it properly, in light of new-testament Grace.
( Paul said it this way - that a man then uses it the law ... lawfully ) 1 Timothy chapter One.

AS i said before and so say i again the LAW in the
new-testament arena still has a ROLE and a function TO PLAY !! [IN OUR LIVES]

But a man for instance to use an allegory form
does not wake up in the morning and think to
himself - gosh i wonder if i will BE nabbed
for breaking the speed limit today or gosh i
wonder if i will get a parking-fine, or i wonder
if will be caught by a red-light traffic camera.

NAY - if he is a "law abiding" citizen - then he
doesn't think of breaking the law - nor it on his
mind. Until such a time as when an offence has
occured. And then the long arm of the LAW comes
after him, and tells him he has breached the standard - the code, and he is in violation.

And then the appropriate penalty is meted out by
those who are engaged to... enforce the LAW !!

And so he is reminded of the standards that are
in place, and the standard that is set...by LAW.

This then in A figure and in allegory form is how the role of ...law... works in our lives.

Paul told Timothy that the law was made for who ??
for the ... "LAWLESS", and for "law-breakers" and for the - "unrighteous"

SO the purpose of law was not to save people from
sins - but to show AND REVEAL... the standard !!

And when a breach of - STANDARD IS COMMITED THEN SIN IS IMPUTED TO THE...OFFENDOR, AND SO LAW, WAS
GIVEN FOR OUR BENIFIT - TO HIGHLIGHT OFFENCE

TO bring the conscience of man into ...sensitivity

And to convince all - under sin !!

To convince all: how far SHORT - THEY HAVE FALLEN
OF HIS....GLORY !! [AND HIS IMPECCABLE STANDARD]

AND TO SHOW HOW EXCEEDING SINFUL SIN IS - AND STHAT SIN IS VERY ADDICTIVE AND ENSLAVING, AND SEPERATES MAN - FROM HIS CREATOR.

AND THE EFFECT AND DESIRE OF LAW - WOULD BE TO
MAKE MAN SEE HIS NEED FOR AN ESCAPE - AND A SOLUTION TO HIS "SIN PROBLEM" - AND HOW TO HAVE
RESTORED FELLOWSHIP - BACK WITH GOD.

AND LEAD MAN TO OBEDIENCE AND REPENTANCE - and to
and see his need for ..." a saviour "

SO yes ["law"] which is the command TO OBEDIENCE, and that which - "SLAYS" a man's conscience - CONVINCING AND CONVICTING HIM OF SIN and OF transgressions - STILL REMAINS A "FORCE"

IN FACT EVERY OTHER COMMAND, ORDINANCE, RULE,and
EDICT....THAT PAUL AND THE OTHER APOSTLES GAVE US
IN the NEW-TESTAMNENT must likewise - BE ADHERED TO.

So the law is what trains and instructs the
conscience of man, as to what is right and wrong
according to his.... holy standards.

The Law came to ...."identify"... sin
TO SHOW behaviour and conduct - contrary to GOD.
And for man to realize HOW FAR... short of...
GOD'S GLORY - HE HAS COME TO.

THE PURPOSE OF GIVING LAW MY FRIEND IS TO SHOW
THE ENSLAVING NATURE OF "SIN" AND TO REVEAL
WHAT SIN IS....AND WHEN YOU HAVE DONE SOMETHING
CONTRARY TO HIS HLOY STANDARD.

THEREFORE WALK IN OBEDIENCE & WALK IN THE SPIRIT
and the "law" - as such, is not invoked - on you.

The law becomes a force when it is not adhered to.

AND that is the function and role of law - it was
added because of transgressions, as PAUL TOLD THE
GALALTIA BELIEVER'S.

OUR father Abraham was saved by faith and not by
the deeds of the law - and the law was yet even
given - for some 400 plus years after, Abraham's
conversion ( when declared righteous before GOd )
as a result of obedience and heeding the voice
of the almighty.


Law was never meant to be the means of salvation
in the life of a ..."worshipper" [never]

Have a great day
in the saviour
S.O.F

_________________
Bro Stephen

That said i admire and glory in your own desire
to obey from the heart all that God commands
from his Holy Word. !!!

Bless you Doug

_________________
Bro Stephen