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Scroggins

Hi, I just want to clarify a comment I posted earlier. I do not believe a Christian can be possessed by a demon but, I do believe a Christian can be oppressed by a demon or demonic forces. Those Christians delivered from demons are, in my view, delivered from oppression not possession. I did not wish to imply that those who needed deliverance were not Christians; only that they were not possessed. I'm truly sorry if I offended anyone!

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nicholas bye

Scroggins and leaf,

I hear what you are saying and thank you both for helpful clarifications. particularly with regard to not challenging a person's belief system, who claims to be a Christian, right when they need help to win against the enemy.

However, I testify to you in Jesus Name, that the body is not an empty vessel like a cup, which is either partly full or full of the Holy Ghost only, or, has nothing spiritual in it, or, has bad spirits in it, or oppressing it.

Bad spirits do (or can) affect [i]parts of the body[/i] with specific bondages due to past sins or invisible injuries, which Jesus Christ can free [i]the body[/i] from, if the person is willing.

I 'hear' that the word for 'possession' is not in the Greek, and I can go along with that, because the Holy Spirit is always going to be more powerful than a demon. But exactly [i]because[/i] the Holy Spirit is always more powerful than a demon, there is, in my understanding, no conflict in the thesis that the body can be a battleground, whether a Christian's body or a non-Christian's body.

There is a great verse at the beginning of Psalm 24: The earth is the Lord's and the fulness thereof.

If you can bear with these two pictures - the earth - Adam, formed from the dust of the ground - and Canaan, the promised land - [i]both[/i] were inhabited by 'an enemy'; Adam, by sin - a spiritual enemy - and Canaan, by giants - a physical enemy.

Can you see, using these two pictures, how the liberation of Canaan into Israel's hands, is a picture of the liberation from domination by sin, of the human body? The overcoming and slaying of 'enemies' - strongholds, as Paul calls them in 2 Cor 10 - is part of the normal Christian life.

Most of us have strongholds that cross between the mind and the body - attitudes to what we might legitimately think / think about, or how we might spend our time [i]doing[/i] what we like, or are accustomed to doing. All this has to be challenged by God, in His timing, and we have to capitulate to His will to set us free.

Simply because Paul does not mention 'demon' in his reference to casting down strongholds, does not mean there is no spirital influence in them, but, I fully agree that God [b]places[/b] victory in our hands, should we wish to lay hold of it by the blood of the Lamb. (Heb 10:14)

I do see the blood as instrumental in winning the battles. While [i]will[/i] is involved - that is, we do have to [i]decide[/i] we want victory - the battle is spiritual, and won only through the blood. Our [i]willpower[/i] cannot free us, by hard work alone.

Many Christians, it seems, do not really understand they can be set free from the propensity to sin. This seems to be because of crazy doctrinal disputes, which move them off the ground of scripture, or, of a lack of knowledge of scripture, or simply not being able / willing to believe it when preached properly to them. I don't know. I'm only guessing, really. I just know what God has done for me, and that if He could deliver me, as a Christian, from all that was thrown at me and found a resting place in my life, then, He can deliver anyone who wants His liberty.

2 Corinthian 10
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare [are] not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, [b]when your obedience is fulfilled[/b]. (KJV)


Fulfilling obedience, is the same picture as bringing forth fruits meet for repentance. God expects to see a change working through to one's outward life, where others also will see it.

I've watched this thread as it were from a distance not knowing if it would be prudent to add to it. I will add an illustration, not to what has already been stated, but to add to the topic at hand. I've observed individuals who have, for what ever reason, not taken up the shield of faith which quenches the fiery darts of the devil, and become demonized (I'm not even going to get into the whole area of flesh vs besetting sins and weights etc...). Now I liken that to the picture of (please forgive me in this illustration) a little 2year old who while shopping with his mother desides to take on a fit for something he/she wants or desires to exercise thier will against the mothers will. At that point the contest is on. The future happiness of the mother is greatly dependant upon the success of that mother at such points in time. Its much the same in the christians life. A christian has the authority to overcome all evil spirits. Going back to our illustration, you'll observe that at time that 2 year old just won't relent or let up. (I'm going to take this a different direction from spanking - correcting - or removing the child, ignoring etc...). In those cases you'll observe that often an Older woman will sometimes come to the help of the mother with the difficult child. She comes along side of that mother as a helper. I'll let you guys fill in the blanks. Some times a neighbor to, the mother with a difficult child, will just speak a word to that child to distract him/her from thier tantrum and in that gives the mother time to re-group her emotions and mental state long enough to get a fresh grip on the matter at hand. This illustration of demonized is one which I have always understood as accurate in most (Not All) cases where a christian is vexed or demonized. (I'm not going to approach the subject of sin, flesh, or weights vs demonization, neither am I going to approach the way demons identify with the individual or the ranks of demons).

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D.Miller

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Scroggins

Romans 6:16

"Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves, servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness."
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Romans 8:5-8

"For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be. So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God."
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Galatians 5:24

"And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts"
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James 4:7

"Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you."
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Luke 10:18-19

"And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you."

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Scroggins

Yes, but even Satan himself is accountable to Christ. Christ is supreme... Christ is GOD. Make no mistake, demons do recognize the deity of Jesus. They know of HIS power and are still under HIS authority.

And yes, there is a distinction. When we are saved we recieve the Holy Spirit and are thus filled. But in the Baptism by fire, we have the Spirit active in our lives, like being released from a cage. It begins to actually play more of a role in our lives so much more than we do ourselves because we have given ourselves up.

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Scroggins

AMEN SISTER LINN!!!!

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Scroggins