| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: Who or what is 'the god of this world'? | |
Yeshua asked
Quote:
So are you trying to lead this into the 'image of the beast'?
It had not entered my thoughts.
Is it relevant? |
|  2005/9/7 16:26 | | philologos
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Reading, UK
| | Re: | | Quote:
Now this could be another big debate! Which came first the chicken or the egg? desire or temptation. If Eve had desired God, and found him sufficient for her, why then would she even want to consider the temptation? What gave Satan power over her - was it not her wrong desire?
This is not really a problem at all. Desire predated trespass, but that does not mean that the desire was wrong.
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Ron Bailey
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| | 2005/9/7 16:51 | Profile | roadsign
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| | Re: | | Quote:
Desire predated trespass
This is what I thought, but now I am wondering if I'm wrong. Maybe FREE WILL predated desire. Did wrong desire result from Satan's suggestions? Could it have happened without his help? Free will entails the freedom to choose. So Satan is used by God to TEST one's true allegiance. God cannot tempt anyone. (James)
That's a bit off the topic.....
Regardless - man fell, and lost the ability to choose God without divine assistance.
It would be a fascinating study to research what we actually lost in the fall - the implications of the God's curse.
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2005/9/7 17:51 | Profile |
| | Re: Touché | | Plain, simple, concise, and humble. Praise God LGB.
Quote:
by letsgetbusy on 2005/9/7 2:06:07
"So then we ask: What does Satan do and what does God do? That can be confusing, and lots of people have lots of opinions."
God is in absolute control. But he has given us freewill to accept or reject him, as He did with the angels. Satan, an angel, rebelled, and caused the rebellion of humans, too. God is still in control, but He is allowing Satan to try God's people, and strenghthen them. But only what He sees fit.
James 1:2 " My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations"
'Obviously the god of this age it cannot refer to idols or false gods, because they have no power.'
Having power doesn't make a god. A god is made by the worth (worth + ship = worship) given it by people.
Exodus 12:12b "...against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD."
Lev 19:4 "Turn ye not unto idols, nor make to yourselves molten gods: I am the LORD your God."
Judges 10:11a-13 "And the LORD said ...ye have forsaken me, and served other gods"
Idolatry continues today.
Anyone that changes the attributes of God in their mind makes a god in their own image.
Anyone that puts their opinions over Scripture has made a god of themself.
Excerpts from the parable of the sower:
Matthew 13:19a "When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart."
Mark 4:15b "...Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts."
Luke 8:12b "...then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved."
I would have to say that because Satan is allowed to attack the world with God's permission does not mean 'that God never lets anything bad happen to us.' Satan is the god of this world (or age) because when God creates "new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness," Satan won't be given dominion, as he will have been cast down.
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| | 2005/9/7 22:49 | | letsgetbusy
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Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia
| | Re: | | "So Satan is used by God to TEST one's true allegiance."
Praise! You got it. God uses Satan to tempt us.
"God cannot tempt anyone."
God does tempt us, but uses Satan to do so. Satan being called the god of this world is not thereby put into a position of judgement. He is called the god of this world because all the travail, poverty, famine, and death are a result of his foul work that originated in the garden.
All the kingdoms rising against kingdoms, wars and rumors of wars, signs in the heavens, earthquakes, are evidence of a cursed earth, or a cursed world. Why is it cursed? Because of the snake. He's not our judge, he is just responsible for starting all this mess. The world is sinful, not because of God's intervening, but Satan's. Thus, he is the god of this world, not the God of the universe. His sin proceeded man's.
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Hal Bachman
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| | 2005/9/7 22:54 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
dorcas
Is it relevant?
Could be, if we are talking about bible prohesy, but thats not the topic. Just saying 'it could' tie into Prophesy throughout the bible. "Could". |
| | 2005/9/7 23:17 | |
| | Re: | | LGB, I wouldn't say God does tempt us, but that He "allows" Satan some limited freedom, where it says, we are "tempted by our own lusts" .... that's the "chink in our armor", that we haven't closed up yet, with God's help.
1Jo 5:18 We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, [u]and that wicked one toucheth him not.[/u]
A Victory Verse.
We were just talking about this earlier.
How no one can ever stand before God, whether saved or unsaved, on That Day, and say, "the devil made me do it."
I'm with ya full-blown though on the Freewill part. That is more true than even we reckon at times. Just how much of 'where we are' as Christians, "presently" in our walk with HIM, is because of our "own" freewill.
We need to see where we're supposed to be, Rom 8:29.
God Bless you brother.
In His Love.
annie |
| | 2005/9/7 23:33 | | letsgetbusy
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Joined: 2004/9/28
Posts: 957
Cleveland, Georgia
| | Re: | | I would half agree with you, annie. As God does tempt us in the sense of trying us. But He does not tempt us to sin.
Gen 22:1 "..God did tempt Abraham.."
Here are Wesley's comments: 'God did tempt Abraham - Not to draw him to sin, so Satan tempts; but to discover his graces, how strong they were, that they might be found to praise and honour and glory.'
So I would, like James 1:13 says, say that God does not tempt us into sin..
"Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man"
..but God does try our faithfulness (Abraham, Job, Paul, etc).
We are still commanded to pray that God 'lead us not into temptation.' So it seems that our lack of obediance or lack of faith could cause us to fall into Satan's clutches if we are leaning to our own understanding.
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Hal Bachman
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| | 2005/9/8 1:01 | Profile | roadsign
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| | Re: god- def'n | | Quote:
Satan being called the god of this world is not thereby put into a position of judgement. He is called the god of this world
by some, not everyone. Thanks, though, for making a clear point that Satan is not a dispenser of judgment. That aught to be very comforting - to know that God himself deals with evil.
The word "god": (from Vines Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)
THEOS (Greek) in the polytheism of the Greeks, denoted a god or deity (ex Acts 14:11, 19:26, 28:6, 1 Cor. 8:5, gal. 4:8
Hence the word was appropriated by Jews and retained by Christians to denote the one true God.
In other words, there is no Greek distinction in Scripture between God and god. The translator must choose according to context.
The word THEOS is used in 2 Cor 4:4 and the context does not necessarily imply that this THEOS must mean Satan. (discussed earlier)
Nowhere in Scripture is Satan himself claimied to be THEOS. It is an assumption to call him a god, which for the most part doesn't probably matter because we all know what we mean.
Many scriptural names for Satan label him according to his activity and sphere of operation:
The prince of the power of the air (spiritual realm)
the king of death Heb 2:14
The ruler of darkness
The deciever
The wicked one
the tempter
The accuser of the brethren
An angel of light
A liar
A murderer
The enemy
A roaring lion
The one, angel of light would make a good discussion.
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Diane
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| | 2005/9/8 7:04 | Profile | roadsign
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| | Re: The God of judgment | | The recent news releases of the crazy and senseless violence in New Orleans, reminds me of the consequences of living without God's governing Spirit. There is no end to the depth of human depravity. No brakes. Society just goes wild and implodes on itself. And, no doubt, this is only the beginning - a fortaste of what may befall our civilization. (Unless God himself should intervene)
We have had a lot of discussion here regarding the possibility of natural catastrophies being God's judgment, but there has been virtually no discussion re a far worse divne judgment - the ABSENSE OF GOD and Spirit reigning in the hearts of man. (as discussed above)
Remember back when humanism crept in? Man thought he was wise enough to rule, that man could do better without God, and that civilization would improve.
Well, now we see that we cannot live without God.
Katrina, just exposed evil that is hidden in the hearts of man. (It also exposes the good) I have come to believe, that, as horrible as natural disasters may be, the far bigger disaster is an ongoing divine judgment of 2 Cor. 4:4. The theme verse of this thread is making more and more sense to me: God's judgment - letting man go his way and grope in the dark by withdrawing his divine light.
One resident of New Orleans said: I never realized that my people could be that bad. Really, if he understood human depravity, he would not have been surprised. Because of the catastrophy his illusions were shattered. (thankfully)
Isn't that what brings us to God - seeing that it didn't work without him?
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2005/9/8 8:14 | Profile |
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