Todd wrote, "Open theists, at least the ones I am familiar with, agree that some of the future is settled."_______________________It's certainly very thoughtful and kind of them to allow God to settle some of the future. I guess they're the arbiters of what is and what isn't settled.Todd wrote, "However it does not follow that therefore ALL the future is set in stone NOW."__________________Again Todd, thanks so much for letting God and myself know this. You seem to have quite the handle on some higher knowledge and on what can happen in the future or what cannot happen in the future. We all may have been going to the wrong Person for answers. We all need to get contact numbers for you and the ones you're familiar with. "KNOWN unto GOD are ALL HIS WORKS FROM ETERNITY." Acts 15:18
"Much of the difficulty in regard to this doctrine is due to the finite character of our mind, which can grasp only a few details at a time, and which understands only a part of the relations between these. We are creatures of time, and often fail to take into consideration the fact that God is not limited as we are. That which appears to us as 'past,' 'present,' and 'future,' is all 'present' in His mind. It is an eternal 'now.' He is 'the high and lofty One that inhabits eternity,' Is. 57:15. 'A thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.' Ps. 90:4. Hence the events which we see coming to pass in time are only the events which He appointed and set before Him from eternity. Time is a property of the finite creation and is objective to God. He is above it and see it, but is not conditioned by it. He is also independent of space, which is another property of the finite creation. Just as He sees at one glance an road leading from New York to San Francisco, while w see only a small portion of it as we pass over it, so He sees all events in history, past, present, and future at one glance. When we realize that the complete process of history is before Him as an eternal 'now,' and that He is the Creator of all finite existence, the doctrine at least becomes an easier doctrine."In the eternal ages back of the creation there could not have been any certainty as to future events unless God had formed a decree in regard to them. Events pass from the category of things that may or may not be, to that of things that shall certainly be, or from possibility to fruition, only when God passes a decree to that effect. This fixity or certainty could have had it ground in nothing outside of the divine Mind, for in eternity nothing else existed. Says Dr. R. L. Dabney: 'The only way in which any object can by any possibility have passed from God's vision of the possible into His foreknowledge of the actual, is by His purposing to effectuate it Himself, or intentionally and purposely to permit its effectuation by some other agent whom He expressly purposed to bring into existence. This is clear from this fact. An effect conceived in posse only raises into actuality by virtue of an efficient cause or causes. When God was looking forward from the point of view of His original infinite prescience, there was but one cause, Himself. If any other cause or agent is ever to arise, it must be by God's agency. If effects are embraced in God's infinite prescience, which these other agents are to produce, still, in willing these other agents into existence, with infinite prescience, God did virtually will into existence, or purpose, all the effects of which they were to be efficients.'"And to the same effect the Baptist theologian, Dr. A. H. Strong, who for a number of years was President and Professor in the Rochester Theological Seminary, writes: 'In eternity there could have been no cause of the future existence of the universe, outside of God Himself, since no being existed but God Himself. In eternity God foresaw that the creation of the world and the institution of its laws would make certain its actual history event to the most insignificant details. But God degreed to create and to institute these laws. In so degreeing He necessarily decreed all that was to come. In fine, God foresaw the future events of the universe as certain, because He had decreed to create; but this determination to create involved also a determination of all the actual results of that creation; or, in other words, God decreed those results.' ( L. Boettner)
You can be right in doctrine and wrong in tone and attitude, and you can be off in doctrine and still show godly character. I find the tone in which some here propage their arguments here quite repulsive. Can we not die to our right to be right like Christ when he was condemned?Proverbs 20:3 It is an honour for a man to cease from strife: but every fool will be meddling.
I find this conversation highly interesting. Though it is noted that many individuals "conformed" to Christian like beliefs to avoid persecution and death in the days after Christianity was accepted and into the dark ages, that had no bearing on the word of God. The word of God was written, by the power of the Holy Spirit by about a hundred men hundreds of years before. Similarly, even the influences around the writers of the scriptures would not have been affected in their writings by the cultures around them. Was the style dependent on the cultures, yes I'm sure. But you have to remember, this is the word of God. Not Man. On the idea of living in faith, though I see where you're coming from JFW, not everyone is called to by a pastor or an evangelist. We are a priesthood of believers as followers of Christ. But as the measure of the grace he provided is given that does not translate to everyone serving in vocational ministry. Some are gifted with technical skills, the ability to work with their hands, and the ability to heal others, all necessary needs for both society and the body of Christ. It is not lack of trusting God, but following his word in the book of the Proverbs to be not like the sluggard but to work hard for the provision of yourself and your family. If you want to make the case that going out and working is not trusting God, then explain to me why God charged Adam to take care of the Garden, or why He didn't reprimand the Hebrews for planting crops in their agrarian society instead of worshiping at the temple 24/7. Did they have the year of Jubilee and the Sabbath, yes. But they still went out and worked. Just because you use conventional wisdom doesn't mean you have turned away from trusting Christ. For a few examples: Money isn't the issue, the love of money is. We are not told to never ride a horse, but to not trust in the strength of Chariots. Etc.
Also, if that doesn't make sense it's because I was responding to a MUCH earlier post. XD I didn't realize you couldn't respond out of order.
There was no intention on my part to suggest that we (all) should not work, and produce goods and services. The life of faith is a constant,... it’s not like we can turn it on or off- We are His ambassadors or we are not,... it’s a full time, all the time, every time position. When the scriptures speak of this kingdom of priests, the priestly service that we administer isn’t separate from our daily lives at both work and home and whatever other affiliations we may have, rather whatever position, voice, authority, influence or ability that we may have are absolutely yielded to His sovereignty without exception. Which is to say that we intentionally abide or remain mindful of His right and desire to use us (His body) to do His work,... His work is to offer up spiritual sacrifices to which He gave His literal body (as example) and fully intends to do so with His body (of believers). This yoke that Jesus spoke of, is what allows us to be conformed into His image, as it is a means to align and pace us with Himself. And yes, this is through faith- and is characterized by peace. (in my understanding) We are literally competing, a race as Paul puts it, to finish well enough to get a “seat” at His table, ruling and reigning with Christ - those whom will be are the “kingdom of priests” (limited number). These are judged by Christ, wether they be fit and profitable (10 talents is a picture) The world, whose “god” is Lucifer, will be judged by God the Father- This is very important because the gentiles that make it in, will be included in the inheritance of the commonwealth of Israel - (the number of gentiles is also limited) and these will rule and reign with Christ for the 1000 years- this inheritance is marked out in scripture- the scriptures give specific locations by name regarding this, and each location/inheritance is related to the function of that portion of the “body” which during this 1000yrs will be the literal governing body under Christ’s headship on earth. If your interested you can find details of this in Ezekiel 47 and if you read and research carefully you’ll find how a particular location/inheritance refers back to Melchizedek - .
_________________Fletcher
Sorry, brother Fletcher, my previous post was not directed at you.
no worries, no offense was taken :)
