The fellowships that I describe and the people that I write to were committed fellowships. This is not about training Sree, it is about spiritual discernment and maturity ( in a spiritual sense)

I appreciate that you have been a part of just one church Sree and it may be wonderful. Can I ask you what caste you belong to? Is there, within your local church, a predominant caste in the ruling structure? Has your church abandoned the caste system and are their marriages within your church between the highest castes and the lowest castes?.............bro Frank

I belong to the highest possible caste in India. I do not know the caste of my own wife. I have never cared to ask, nor do I believe she knows!

_________________
Sreeram

Sree,

I already figured you belonged to "the highest," caste in India, it always shines through. You failed to mention the hierarchy of your wonderful local church and if they exclusively also belonged to the highers castes. Are there any Dalits on the eldership team of your local church?

Churches are more often than nought mere expressions of the local culture, a sub culture rather than a counter culture. Sree, it would be the biggest surprise of my life if your own local church was a counter culture and stood as a shining light above the horrendous caste system of India which is a blight on the face of mankind, as is the class system of Britain. I am so glad, that for the most part, the Lord's disciples were uneducated men who had no high thoughts about themselves. The Lord takes the foolish things of this world and confounds the wise........bro Frank

The sin of partiality......

My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons. For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment; And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool: Are ye not then partial in yourselves, and are become judges of evil thoughts? Hearken, my beloved brethren, Hath not God chosen the poor of this world rich in faith, and heirs of the kingdom which he hath promised to them that love him? But ye have despised the poor. Do not rich men oppress you, and draw you before the judgment seats?
(Jas 2:1-6)

RE : /// Even reformers such as Martin Luther saw the Church as one and did not think they were starting a "new church" but continuing with the one old Church. ///

That is why they carried on many of the unbiblical ideas of the Catholic Church : Infant Baptism, mixture of church and state, geographical take over, persecution and even death of those they deemed as heratic's etc. etc..

RE : /// The Church to me is not just people but also what the New Testament teaches about how the assembly of believers functions, the sort of rules, frame work, etc, this means the Church is beyond any one believer but is God-given institution such as the Temple or the priests in the old Testament.///


The New Testament is totally different than the Temple and Priest concept.
It teaches A body paradigm with "One head" and a Priesthood of all believers concept.

Bro Greg writes..........

"there have always been disagreements and denominations in the Church."

That statement is simply not true. By slipping in the word " denomination," does not lend to the truth brother. Yes, disagreements, no denominations. We have had this conversation before and we clearly disagree.

You refer to Luther brother and I am simply using Scriptures as a guide. In the Scriptures there is no denominations nor is there a call for them. Sree used his own fellowship as an example and I was simply probing to see if his fellowship was indeed free from the worse excesses of the world. When the classes or castes of the world dominate our fellowships, then we are in direct violation of the Scripture I referred to. I suggest if we stick to Scriptures to gain our truths we would have greater clarity, as opposed to Luther or Calvin or Augustine or any other man who had opinions but who were mere fallible men as opposed to the infallible Scriptures...............bro Frank

PP writes...........

"The New Testament is totally different than the Temple and Priest concept. It teaches A body paradigm with "One head" and a Priesthood of all believers concept."

It does indeed brother, nor does it instigate Popes or Cardinals...............bro Frank

RE : ///... who ever had it in Church history? ///

This concept did not originate with me but my study of Church History thus far seems to conclude it to be a true statement :

"The previous move of God persecutes the current move of God"

Bro Greg,

Let me suggest you read the OP again without any pre-conceived notions as to who you think I am or what you think I believe. The premise of my very short OP was that where two or three are gathered, then He is in the midst of us. It is such a simple point but always garners so much opposition.

The simplicity of the Word of God is what I stake my eternal life on, not the words of theologians and schoolmen and elite theology. The one great example of how a gathering actually should be, ironically, is the Corinthian church.

But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth.(1Co 14:24-25)

We learn so much from Paul bringing into order a church that was over zealous. Everyone had a word and a song and tongue and so on. Paul bring some order to that as he suggest two or three of each of these gifts coming from the priesthood of believers. It is so simple and so profound that the unsaved and the unlearned would fall down and worship God and the report would be spread aloud that God is truly in their midst. But, as always, prophets like A.W.Tozer speaks by the power of God and pronounces.........

"Let me go out on a limb a little bit and prophesy. I see the time coming when all the holy men whose eyes have been opened by the Holy Spirit will desert worldly Evangelicalism, one by one. The house will be left desolate and there will not be a man of God, a man in whom the Holy Spirit dwells,left among them."

"I hear Jesus saying...Mat 23:37-38: "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to her, how often would I have gathered your children together, even as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you would not! Behold, your house is left to you desolate"

"As the Church now stands, the man who sees this condition of worldly evangelicalism is written off as somewhat fanatical. But the day is coming when the house will be left desolate and there will not be a man of God among them. I would like to live long enough to watch this develop and see how things turn out. I would like to live to see the time when the men and woman of God-holy, separated and spiritually enlightened - walk out of the evangelical church and form a group of their own; when they get off the sinking ship and let her go down in the brackish and worldliness and form a new ark to ride out the storm."(A.W.Tozer)

By your own estimations brother, I am a fanatic. I plead guilty..........bro Frank