In general I think it's unwise to cling too tightly to any particular view. It's ok to have our favorite but we must also be prepared for disappointment.

As a post tribber my potential for disappointment is very low because if I am wrong and Jesus comes earlier than expected, that's awesome!

The disappointment for a pretribber could be very great and depending on how strongly they hold to that belief it might be devastating and perhaps faith-wrecking, if they are wrong of course.

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Todd

RE: ///In general I think it's unwise to cling too tightly to any particular view. It's ok to have our favorite but we must also be prepared for disappointment.///

I agree 100%
Search the different views through out church history there is no continuity.

Pretrib rapture and significance of Israel in Bible Prophecy are foundational stones to so much of modern eschatological interpretation, but neither seem to hardly be mentioned in the first 1500 years of church recordings and I am not aware of any such view being found in the Ante-Nicene writings.

edit:clarity

I believe the reason many people hold to the pre-trib view is that it is an escape from persecution. If you notice the pre-tribulation view is primarily held by believers in the west. Believers in places such as Eritrea or North Korea have no concept of a pre-trib rapture. They would indeed argue and rightly so that they are in the tribulation.

I believe people that hold a pre tribulation view do not acknowledge the reality of a persecuted church. Some even scoff at the notion of persecuted church. They see themselves as stuffing themselves silly at the bridal Feast of the Lamb. While the poor suckers that are left down here are still trying to make it to the tribulation.

I do not see this taught in Scripture. What I do see taught in scripture is that we are to be Overcomers. What I do see taught in scripture is that we will go through the tribulation. We will indeed experience persecution. The question is in America and North America as well as in the West. Will we be ready to go through it? And the sobering answer to that question is no. Many will fall away.

Simply my thoughts.

Well stated bear and pretty sobering.

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Todd

So true, Bear.

What makes the Pre-Trib theology so astounding is the horrible persecution that has accompanied the Church during the last 2,000 years. You have to purposely become blind too all of that and all the present day great tribulation that the Church is in. The true Church has been in Great Tribulation since Christ and it continues. Jesus prayed His Father's will.

John 17:15-16
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil. They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

Paul understood that, too.
2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

Keep us from evil, not by taking us out of the world.

The Lord will preserve our soul. No such promises about preserving our body.

Psalms 121:7
The Lord shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.

The Great Tribulation occurred as prophesied by Jesus that it would!

So much for a pretrib anything!

Although the movie makers are making something!

As me and my buddies used to say when we parted...

Here...there...or...in the air...!

I would call the continued persecution spanning 2,000 years of any people group, "Great Tribulation". Persecution of the "Christian" peoples over 2,000 years is no exception.

As Savannah said, it started when Jesus said it would and it never ended.

Quote: """The Great Tribulation occurred as prophesied by Jesus that it would!"""

Quote: """As Savannah said, it started when Jesus said it would and it never ended."""


Where is this prophesy?

In Christ: Phillip

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Phillip

Hey Philip- I am assuming he means the Olivet Discourse. I am in 75% agreement with that interpretation.

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Todd

Zac Poonen has an excellent series on Revelation.

Page 16 under his sermons starts Rev 1
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=157&min=300&orderby=titleA&show=20

Here's the one I want you to start on (if you care to):
(revelation) Revelation 20:4-21:17 by Zac Poonen
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=9011&commentView=itemComments

Then here is David Pawson's Revelation series:
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=528

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Lisa