Amen bro Mark. The great falling away precedes the coming persecution so when you see it begin to unfold then you know that what has to happen next comes quickly.

2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

I think one of the key Scriptures that explains the great falling away is the verses in the same chapter.......

And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. (2Th 2:10-12)

The love of the truth. Its what in the end, and always has been, the dividing line between folks. Having a love of the truth is actually a gift from God. There is a fire in the bones of those who love the truth, so much so that they forsake all else when it comes right down to it. Without this love of the truth then men will fall away as circumstances change. The cultural winds, the world and the love for it, persecution, even love for family will cause many to fall away. If one is not prepared, somewhere deep in their heart, to forsake all for Him, then they will fall away. The refiners fire reveals that which otherwise would remain hidden. Not hidden to God but hidden to men......bro Frank

Amen brother Franks. Is it reasonable to surmise then that only those who survive this great flood of darkness that precedes the rising of the man of sin...will be in fact be the remnant? And what then the effect of the persecution? I would think that it will only serve to strengthen the remnant even more. The others who have fallen away during this current period of apostasy will still consider themselves christians when the beast arises, but they will only have the form of godliness, not the real thing. What will become of them I wonder? Will some of them wake up during the great persecution or will it be too late? In other words, how "final" is this delusion that is granted to them because they do not love the truth???

I hate to always seem to be the contrarian, but oh well.

But I don't see a great apostasy, at least not in any of the Christians and churches I know. I don't know if anyone that is a believer who has abandoned or is abandoning the faith. I see the opposite- there is more hunger and desire to grow.

It was my impression that if there will be a great apostasy that a widespread persecution would cause it because people would "chicken out." But you seem to be saying that the apostasy happens and THEN the great persecution.

I agree that America is in a dark place(sinners are getting more brazen and this is now condoned by society- i.e. other sinners) but that is not apostasy.

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Todd

We have things such as the prosperity gospel, word of faith movement , emergent church movement , just visit your Christian books and compare them to books a century ago.

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Dominic Shiells

Why do feel that people in the "emergent church" movement for example are apostate? Because they may not meet in a building with a steeple?

Not everyone in WOF movement is a nonbeliever. I agree they twist things but that does not make a person apostate.

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Todd

I actually posted a similar question to Deltadom's a while back: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=55052&forum=35

I still don't know the answer. But in a sense, the darkness doesn't matter as much if we are focusing on the Light - and it is in the darkest place where the Light shines the brightest.

Bro Mark asks .....

"Amen brother Franks. Is it reasonable to surmise then that only those who survive this great flood of darkness that precedes the rising of the man of sin...will be in fact be the remnant?"

I believe that the remnant are lovers of the truth to the detriment of everything else in his of her life. And because of that, they, rather than merely survive, stand fast in the mighty headwinds that will blow around the world. They are over-comers of these headwinds of hatred. Most of the persecutors I believe will absolutely consider themselves Christian, this is the history of the last 1700 years. After Constantine, the main persecutors and killers of the martyrs were Roman Catholics who defintely believed they were killing heretics and in doing so believed they were carrying out the work of God.

They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service. And these things will they do unto you, because they have not known the Father, nor me. (Joh 16:2-3)

You asked brother if some will wake up? I do believe that to be true. It will only be too late when the Lord Himself returns. As these people witness God's remnant being persecuted it will, I believe, bring about two main reactions. 1. More hatred and I believe this will be the majority reaction. 2. Conviction and repentance. In the parable of the foolish virgins Jesus is warning those unprepared what happens. If they stay in their unprepared state, if there is no oil in their vessels, then they will be lost to everlasting darkness. They had a little oil, but what oil they had ran out quickly and any light they had went out......................bro Frank

And noone here interprets the falling away as the rapture? apo Away from /stasis standing.

The church, the bride church is standing away from the professed church from their place in heaven.

A true Christian can sin but not live in sin. Majority of Christians are they living in sin? They will continue to do so and call themself the church when we are out of here.


First we are taken, then the antichrist revealed.

A toddler believers reponse

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Linda

Hi Linda,

Its another subject which has been discussed on the forum at length. I do not believe in a pre-trib rapture and I believe I may be in the majority on this forum, just for your information. If you search in the search box on the home page of SI with the phrase pre-trib rapture you may find many interesting threads..............bro Frank

G646
ἀποστασία
apostasia
ap-os-tas-ee'-ah
Feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly the state), (“apostasy”): - falling away, forsake.

For a year, Im being quite serious I never saw a search function. I looked in the beginning for a little black word to say search and only because you SAID there is a search function could I then see it as a blue square and a google blank!

Do majority here believe in Mid or Post? Ill be careful to not make any posts about the rapture then. But Id like to know the consenses.

And does majority believe in the rapture? I know many Christians do not.

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Linda