Julius21,

You are obviously following an anti-Israel agenda. You even twist scripture references to suit your agenda. Everybody can quote scripture.

When Stephan Sizer was put under discipline by the Church of England who is not known for promoting Zionism, does that not teach you something?

I checked the links you posted and they are highly biased and loaded with anti-Israel propaganda. They play into the hands of those who pursue the destruction of the state of Israel and you throw in your lot with them.

You are posing a stumbling block to those who get offended by that and provoking strong reactions in them. It really sickens me.

I come from a dispensational background. In fact for many years I did not know that there were any other theological views of interpreting scripture. I have found that to know truth we must be willing to engage opposing views to test what we believe. Truth is never harmed by questions but only strengthened. I understand it is easy to get passionate when our belief system is challenged,but we are called by Christ to act in love. I enjoy reading these discussions and have learned many things. I usually do not have time to respond and I am not good with the pen anyway,so don't usually get involved with the discussions. Please try to refrain from insulting others. God bless all,

Truth is never harmed by questions. Provided those questions are posed in dialogue in a respectful way. It has been consistently said in this forum that we play the ball not the man.

To see brothers name calling. Rebuking one another as Satan in the name of Christ grieves thr Spirit. This goes beyond healthy debate and discussion. This gets into the camp of the enemy.

Is any doctrine so important that brothers must must divide and name call one another? Brothers we all are members of this forum. I posted previously the three guidelines that go below each post. We need to go back and review the protocols of this forum. I say we because I'm a member of the forum also. Thus I need to make it a point to review those questions before I hit that submit button.

Brothers I am pleading with you that you repent before each other. And come together again as brothers in Christ at the cross. The only one who is getting victory in this thread is Satan through the division and strife.

Let us remember that the enemy is not each other. Satan is laughing in glee at the name calling that is taking place here. Bretheren don't you see that the devil is the enemy. Satan has masterfully manipulated each of you to look at one another as the enemy. It is the devil that is getting victory in this thread.

My brothers I implore you. Go before God and ask forgiveness for this division. And then ask one another for forgiveness. And then love God and love one another. And then turn and kick the devil back to the cross where he was defeated.

Remember these threads are read around the world. They may be read by Christiane in restricted nations. Thus they begin to wonder what type of Christiane live in America. My brothers I implore you to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bonds of peace. No doctrine. No doctrine. Is worth this devision and strife.

Brothers I implore you as your brother in Christ. Repent before God. Repent before one another. And love and build up one another. You are men of God. You are brothers in Christ. Please don't let this forum fall into the trap of Satan. I employ you to encourage one another. Build up one another.

It would be pretty embarrassing if we all were rounded up and put into a death camp. Only to be debating this issue on the way to the guillotine.

My brother's I encourage you to walk in love with one another. Let us all go to the cross. For at the cross where Jesus hung for our sins is all that matters.

Your brother in Christ,

Blaine

Yes, Bear, truth is never harmed by questions:

One thing that has not been dealt with is that the first coming of Christ is man's only chance of salvation (Jew and Gentile). At His second coming, no one can be saved. This would be a good, new thread to start.

Let's see who believes in so-called Replacement Theology: Take the following test.

If you answer YES to the following, then you believe in "Replacement Theology".

…you believe the Bible when it says Christians are the true Jews today: Romans 2:28-29: "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. ", "for we [Christians] are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, " (Philippians 3:3)

…you believe that Israel is the church: "For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel [church] of God." (Galatians 6:15-16) The peace in this passage is for those who walk according to Christ so CANNOT refer to fleshly/physical Israel that utterly rejects Christ.

…you believe Jews must believe in Jesus to be saved and are as lost as Muslims and atheists until they do. (Jn 3:16; Jn 14:6)

…you believe the New Testament (second covenant) of Jesus Christ replaced the Old Testament (first covenant) Jer 31:31 + Heb 8:6-13

…you believe that keeping both the First and Second covenants at the same time is like a woman married to two men at the same time (Romans 6:1-7)

…you believe the body of the Christian is the temple that God dwells in today not some building made of stone, wood or curtains. (1 Cor 3:16; 6:19-20)

…you believe the Saturday Sabbath was abolished and Christians worship on the first day of the week (Sunday).

…you believe the calendar of 7 Jewish feasts do not have to be kept by Christians: Passover (Pesach), Unleavened Bread (Chag Hamotzi), First Fruits (Yom habikkurim), Pentecost (Shavu'ot), Trumpets (Yom Teru'ah), Atonement (Yom Kippur), Tabernacles (Sukkot).

…you believe that the entire law of Moses has been abrogated and replaced by the law of Christ and that if you want to keep just one part of the law of Moses, YOU MUST KEEP IT ALL!

…if you believe that you do not need to be circumcised to be saved. Acts 15:1-3

…if you believe there is no distinction in the mind of God towards all men: Jew or gentile, rich or poor, male or female (Gal 3:28-29)

If anyone thinks Replacement Theology is different than this, that would be a good discussion. What statements does anyone disagree with?

Most people if not all on SI will agree with these statements. There you go, this is what "Replacement Theology" is and what most of the Churches believe because it is the Word of God. Most people do not even know they have been labeled with this term, yet they believe everything above that is written.

I cannot take credit for these statements. They came from: http://www.bible.ca/premillennialism-rapture-replacement-theology-supersessionism-christians-are-jews-church-is-israel.htm

I do believe those statements because it is the clear teaching of scripture. However,I do not believe the church replaces Israel. I believe the Church is the body of Christ and has been made up of all His people from the time of of Adam, actually before the fountain of the world. The Bible seems very clear to me that there is is one body,one bride, one vine, one way of salvation.
One thing I am not sure of is the meaning of the new covenant. I don't know if this a topic for another thread,by I am unclear on it.

Someday, we all shall stand before the Judgment seat to account before Yahweh, the LORD, for every word, deed, and for most this will be a wrenching experience.

for me, it will be, and for you Julius, it will be. In the Deep Things of God, it is unavoidable, it is necessary, it is good, a veritable Refiner's Fire.

Now, as my Counselor, God the Holy Ghost, who lives in me, instructs me, leads me, I have always been very wary of men, who are so driven by their singular "ists" or "isms" or "theologies" as opposed to the Blessed Joy of Loving God, Loving Messiah, being able to listen to the Small Still Voice of God the Holy Ghost, or tarrying for the ongoing Baptism of the Holy Spirit, which goes under the terminology of "progressive sanctification"....

Now many men go thru seminaries, engaging in the learning of theology. Who I am to say, right or wrong? but what about the "Seminary of Tears"?.....or the "Seminary of the Desolate Place"? the "Seminary of the Prayer Closet"?

in short, eschewing ALL the vain thoughts of men, with the Blessed Ministry of the Excellency of KNOWING GOD, in intimate Discourse, and relationship, dead unto your own flesh and knowledge...and absolutely DEPENDENT on God?

there are a FEW human vessels of Christ and Him Crucified, God the Holy Ghost has led me to, older brothers, some with the Lord, some still down here on earth, and thru the technology (recordings) God has given us, they teach me, and edify me, used of God, and I want to share JUST ONE with you, Brother Len Ravenhill's powerful provoking message, "The Excellency of Knowing God"....and nooo, i'm not so craven as to post up a direct refutation of "replacement theology", i'm just praying hope upon hope, that you will just take the time to prayerfully listen to this, its about an hour plus......I even BEG you, please just listen to Brother Len speak on the "Excellency of Knowing God" and just let the Wind of the Spirit blow thru your heart, it will not disappoint, I speak the Truth in Christ, I am not lying:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=20359

you don't have to "report back to me", you don't have to "agree or disagree" with me, because who I am?....a blade of grass, that's all...just listen to this man of God, a dear soul.

and while, since I cant (wont) play the exercise of "dueling verses", you might think, I don't eat of the Whole Word of God, that is wrong, as I do, as a man famished, I just don't feel the need to prove i'm "right"....so there it is, just one humble request, just stop and listen to brother Len...okay?

may God love you, neil

I agree with Blains comments:
" My brothers I implore you to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bonds of peace. No doctrine. No doctrine. Is worth this devision and strife.
I employ you to encourage one another. Build up one another..."

The unity, the testimony, the Glory of our Lord and the advancement of His Kingdom should be far more important then to try and prove who has the "right " theology.
You can't put my theology in a box. In simple words it would probably be : "for me to live is Christ..."
God has given us His Word so we can "be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work. "

Unity is not in a doctrine , it is only in Christ "for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:28

I have no desire to discuss that article but i still would like to point out a few important points.
" Church " is not the correct translation.
What is a "Christian "?
"The disciples were called Christians first at Antioch. "Acts 11 : 26
A "Christian " should therefore be a "learner and a follower " of Jesus Christ.
What is the Gospel:
"Gospel is a term used over 75 times in the New Testament. While it has various nuances of meaning, it's most fundamental meaning from the Greek is "good news." But good news of what? According to the Evangelical Dictionary of Theology edited by Walter Elwell, "the gospel is the joyous proclamation of God's redemptive activity in Christ Jesus on behalf of man enslaved by sin."

We should "seek first the Kingdom of God..." and to go out and share that "joyous proclamation of God's redemptive activity in Christ Jesus on behalf of man enslaved by sin."

Shouldn't the Lamb be glorified and get the reward for His suffering?

My final thoughts in this thread

About Julius21

I checked out his link http://www.bible.ca
They are promoting amillenialism, supercessionism and replacement theology. They claim that the thousand year reign started with the church age at Pentecost and resurrection happens when a Christian gets born again !?

This is not a small matter but he is trying to unsettle the faith of others here an win them over. I am more concerned about the souls here on SI he is unsettling. This is the reason why I address him personally and not just his doctrines.

The bible warns about this teaching in 2 Timothy 2:16-19 (KJV)
16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. 17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; 18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the RESURRECTION IS PAST ALREADY; AND OVERTHROW THE FAITH OF SOME.
19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

SI is not a church, but if were one, we are required to stop people promoting heresy. This goes too far.

Julius21 also quotes from Neturei Karta, with is strange Jewish splinter group that participated in an Anti-Zionist conference hosted by the Iranian government. Part of Neturei Karta's agenda is the abolishment and dismantling of the state of Israel.
Steven Sizer, whose article he posted on SI was one of their featured speakers. Most of the participants were outright Holocaust deniers. In my country Germany you can actually get jailed for Holocaust denial.

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/6171503.stm
"Why are Jews at the 'Holocaust denial' conference?“

timg and Blaine: I appreciate your call to peace and ceasing to call name and stop striving and I support that. I think as for Julius21 this goes beyond a healthy debate.

He purposely came here or infiltrated this forum to spread these doctrines as some others have discovered this. What more evidence do we need? Some people already got so offended that they used very strong words against him. Julius21 showed more restraint and moderation in these attacks, but even this may be tactics in order to make him appear to be more commendable.

Is not SI a haven for souls in the wilderness who mourn over the decline Christianity in the US, Europe and elsewhere? Should it not be source of learning, mutual encouragement and fellowship over the internet?

May I kindly ask the moderators to take action?

narrowpath, You are absolutely right in what you say. I have been of this opinion for some time now and refuse to be baited anymore into his agenda...to the point I don't even want to participate on this forum, because there is so much deceit and error. It is not about honest disagreements (I can discuss and debate with any reasonable person), it is about a clear agenda and twisting of scripture. What upsets me the most is the lack of discernment from many who can't see what is going on. I don't agree with all the reactions, but they were definitely provoked (I think deliberately)and played into the hand of the one who can then claim 'the victim' status.

SI is definitely NOT a church as you say. So people get away with things they never would face to face. Many of the posters we don't know their real name, if they are male or female, or even which country they live in! Can you imagine that in a church....Someone one wanting to give their opinion and teaching on every issue, but refusing to disclose who they are!?

"But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ." 2 Cor 11:3

Folk, The word of God is simple (straight forward), not a cryptic crossword puzzle that we need to somehow re-interpret words to mean something different to what they clearly do. God means what He says and says what He means. Don't believe the lie of the serpent, 'Did God really say?'.

_________________
Dave

I can't attest for anything else on that website. But his list was good (and I have to credit the source). Too many people have been called heinous names and even heretical and apostate and had labels thrown at them. The moderators have been more than gracious towards them, allowing good brothers to be slighted with their hostility and threats. But we forgive them and the moderators know this. I wanted to show that even the ones doing the name calling believe the things which I wrote, which are Biblical. Notice, they don't refute them.

When people constantly play the man and not the ball, as many have alluded to, this shows who has the real agenda. Imagine if we could no longer speak about anything in the list (below), anymore. We are in effect, banning important parts of the New Testament for discussion.

That is my final word in this particular thread, too. (Unless people want to discuss the list. Don't be intimidated by these people). What example are we to unbelievers when we intimidate and threaten others?

So you don't have to search for the list that I am talking about, here it is again.

…you believe the Bible when it says Christians are the true Jews today: Romans 2:28-29: "For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God. ", "for we [Christians] are the true circumcision, who worship in the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh, " (Philippians 3:3)

…you believe that Israel is the church: "For neither is circumcision anything, nor uncircumcision, but a new creation. And those who will walk by this rule, peace and mercy be upon them, and upon the Israel [church] of God." (Galatians 6:15-16) The peace in this passage is for those who walk according to Christ so CANNOT refer to fleshly/physical Israel that utterly rejects Christ.

…you believe Jews must believe in Jesus to be saved and are as lost as Muslims and atheists until they do. (Jn 3:16; Jn 14:6)

…you believe the New Testament (second covenant) of Jesus Christ replaced the Old Testament (first covenant) Jer 31:31 + Heb 8:6-13

…you believe that keeping both the First and Second covenants at the same time is like a woman married to two men at the same time (Romans 6:1-7)

…you believe the body of the Christian is the temple that God dwells in today not some building made of stone, wood or curtains. (1 Cor 3:16; 6:19-20)

…you believe the Saturday Sabbath was abolished and Christians worship on the first day of the week (Sunday).

…you believe the calendar of 7 Jewish feasts do not have to be kept by Christians: Passover (Pesach), Unleavened Bread (Chag Hamotzi), First Fruits (Yom habikkurim), Pentecost (Shavu'ot), Trumpets (Yom Teru'ah), Atonement (Yom Kippur), Tabernacles (Sukkot).

…you believe that the entire law of Moses has been abrogated and replaced by the law of Christ and that if you want to keep just one part of the law of Moses, YOU MUST KEEP IT ALL!

…if you believe that you do not need to be circumcised to be saved. Acts 15:1-3

…if you believe there is no distinction in the mind of God towards all men: Jew or gentile, rich or poor, male or female (Gal 3:28-29)