TR
There are some versions of the bible out there that are just way off the mark, I agree with you on that. Common sense would tell you to leave those alone. HOWEVER, even if we had the very original manuscripts and translated those directly, the translation was flawless, and we had not the Holy Spirit to interpret them and teach them to us IT WOULD DO NO GOOD. The Pharisees had perfect TRANSLATIONS, or MANUSCRIPTS of scripture and yet Christ had nothing good to say of them, there was something missing, the spirit of God. See look the only way we can have God's PERFECT word is to have GOD's PERFECT SPIRIT INTERPRET AND INSTRUCT US.

We have libraries upon libraries of so-called knowledge of God some of which really was born of the instruction of the Holy Spirit and the rest of it is just garbage. If it were all inspired by the Holy Spirit I tell you the power that we would be wielding would have satan and his minions begging to be cast into the lake of fire. We need to be seeking out that which was born of the spirit and nothing more or less. What is about to happen is going require that those who are really about God's business to be walking in the spirit lest they get swept away by the impending judgment.

You also wrote:

I think it is just amazing that people would make some of the statements here without even looking at the book. I challenge you all to read at LEAST the first chapter.

As to my knowledge of the transmission of the Biblical Text, I am quite knowledgeable. This is not a "thee" or "thou" issue here. This is a MANUSCRIPT issue.

There are two streams of manuscripts. One from Alexandria. One from Antioch. They both disagree. They both can't be right.

But I don't plan on taking the space here to type what is already in the book. I challenge you all to read it.

"He that answereth a matter before he heareth it, it is folly and shame unto him." - Proverbs 18:13

Blessings,

TR

Until this day I had no idea that there were 2 streams of manuscripts from which the bible came which disagree. I thought there was just the one that people translated differently for whatever reason. I’m not sure how many people have even hear a rumor hinting of any of this but I can say that it was a first for me. It seems you have studied this area and know it well (mentioned it in the post that you know about transmission of text) but how many others are out there who have had the benefit of your study of your being taught these things by someone? Probably not very many, I could be wrong though. Since I don’t have that benefit has it jeopardized my own relationship with God? Since I don’t have a KJV (which I hear is a very accurate translation) or another accurate translation has my salvation and relationship with God been forfeited? No!. I submit to you all that God is God and He does as He pleases. If He can use Paul who persecuted Christians as his favorite pastime to His glory by turning Paul into a Christian superchamp, surely a poorly translated version of the bible in God’s hands can still be powerful. John of Patmos wrote the revelation by inspiration of the Holy spirit, He was no scholar of the scriptures , he was a fisherman (if I’m wrong please correct me) and yet the one book the spirit inspired him to write has bamboozled the most learned of men 2000+ yrs later. How could this be so? The spirit with which many men have long-used to interpret scripture is one that wants to glorify men, hence all the confusion. This is evidence of a deep need by the church of now to reach back and tap into the Holy Spirit that drove our forerunners. How long have these bad manuscripts been in circulation? People still have been saved and are still being saved right? That would seem to say that the power is not in the translation but in the source of all knowledge of the scripture, God Himself! When the Holy spirit leads me through scripture I just believe that He will minister to me according to God’s will and wisdom and leave it at that. I have a good news bible and an n.i.v. that are both different but I have been shown that the meaning and power of the word comes from the throne of God Himself and we have access to that through Christ and the ministry of the holy spirit.

This is not an attack but a testimony of what God has shown me. God is the source of all power and knowledge concerning Him. If we look beyond the translation, there will we find the power we seek. If we let the Holy Spirit minister to us rather than rely on our minds (which cannot fathom what is spirit) then we will find that there is nothing to disagree about because ALL will be made clear by the Holy spirit. Let us seek the spirit in all things. God is spirit and He requires worship in spirit and truth and meeting Him in spirit. THIS IS THE KEY to pleasing God and the key to all things concerning Him, without it, pleasing God or truly knowing Him is not possible.

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Farai Bamu

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Farai Bamu

Hello Gentlemen ~ forgive me for interrupting here and possibly putting a twist to this discussion, my main reason for coming to this site was to find another way to explain the Trinity to my dad ... and here is a pretty good spot to drop in ~ the mention of "New World Translation". :-D

I tend to 'favor' the Baptist church because of the learning and delving into the Bible. While my dad has the same desire of attending a church that teaches from the Bible, he believes to have met this desire through the Jehovah Witness'.

He and I have had numerous discussions, over the past two years, about the NWT version and the versions I use (NKJV mostly, KJV and NIV). He believes the versions I use are incorrect, while I believe the NWT is incorrect.

I've been thankful my dad has been attending church with his grandkids and myself (a baptist church), but now he has become irritated that we believe (and actually use a Bible version wherein Jesus proclaims) He (Jesus) is equal to God the Father.

Being rather ignorant of who translated what, where, when, why, and how, I don't want to miss this opportunity of another way to explain the Trinity and Jesus' Deity to my dad ... not to mention his refusing to attend church with us anymore. His attending has meant alot to not only myself, but to my teenage daughter as well, whose dad would and will not step foot into a church claiming agnostic or atheism, depending what is the subject. :roll:

Thank you for letting me be a billy goat, who currently resides in TN and who is a stay-at-home mom.

Darraugh

We have chatted over this subject in Which Version and in other places. Rather that go through the discussion again I thought folks might like to visit here.

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Ron Bailey

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Ron Bailey

Hi Darraugh,

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Mike Balog

I quite agree with philologos. I think he gave you some good and very accurate information. Just wanted to add my agreement. :-D

Along with their addition of Jehovah in the NT, they use the faulty text created by Westcott and Hort in 1881. In many ways, the NWT agrees with the NASB. While the NASB doesn't corrupt John 1:1, it does use the Alexandrian reading of John 1:18. Instead of reading of a "begotten Son," (KJV) we read of a "begotten God." (NAS, NWT) This was changed to agree with gnosticism and like philosophies of the second and third centuries. They looked at Jesus as a lesser god and not as God Almighty. Of course this is the JW view. Though JW's don't preach full gnosticism, the general heresy concerning the deity of Christ comes into play here.

If you can take away a person's faith in their foundational text and replace it with the correct one, they have no option but to see the truth. What they do with it may be a different story. But that is where the precious Holy Ghost comes in to help.

Blessings,

RT

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Ron Bailey

Ironically, my dad had an opportunity to see how NWT erroneously translated "kurios" to "Jehovah", rather than to "Lord" (or is that 'LORD'? :-? ). I'm not sure which mis-translated verse, in NWT, wreaks more havoc ... Gen. 1:2 or John 1:1. However, these two verses are what my dad refers to in denying the Deity of Christ.

I've been privileged to take Basic Theology from the former senior pastor at the church I attended in Illinois. The book we used was written by Charles Ryrie, which in my humble mumble opinion, is well written for us simple-minded folk. This book has come in handy many of times, in particular, when addressing translations of Hebrew and Greek, while trying to find additional insight for my dad's questioning.

I quite agree with what was previously mentioned (can't remember by whom at the moment), the Holy Spirit helps us to understand God's Word, in addition to understanding the Triune God.

~ Darraugh ~ :-D

You know, the King James Version is a Version it is not a translation.

I find it ironic that God takes any translation, version, and sows His seed in the heart who is diligently seeking Him. And all they have is the NIV or ASV. I think we tend to forget it is the holy Spirit that leads and guides us into all truth, NOT the KJV or some other version.

I personally read the KJV, but what do the Chinese read? I can assure you it is not the KJV, the KJV is for the english speaking peoples of the world.