How many times have people remarked in SI that the NT Church did not have any Scriptures and yet the Early Church turned the world upside down. Of course we know they had the OT and copied and re-copied letters from Apostles as they appeared, but they did not have a Bible store on every corner and we do!

So, it must not be the reading of the Word that is missing. What is really missing in the Western Church? Do you know? We have sermons galore and Bibles galore and Bible classes, Sunday school classes, Wednesday night Bible Studies, etc, etc., Bible on Tape, CD, DVD and MP3. So, what is really missing? Where is the Life of Christ, in the Church?

All is forgiven, dear brother. I know you do not accept my premise that began this thread. But I think we would agree that the American church is not hungering for the word. Then we could say that the American church is not hungering for the Word Himself. In that the Spirit must give conviction.

My thoughts.

Bear.

Paul, that was well said and something that I know I would like to echo and sure many other brothers, too. Spoken words and expressions on faces are definitely missing in an internet forum. Because of this, we have to believe the best about each other. Love believes all things.

Bearmaster, it becomes a very difficult subject when one paints a broad brush on any topic that seems to include everyone and that clearly does not work out very well in internet discussions. Instead of saying "American Church", it might work better to say "fallen away church" or "backslidden church". Clearly there are saints in America that hunger and thirst for God's word and continue to walk after Him with all their heart.

I also note that Paul the apostle, though he traveled much and knew many churches, he was loathe to compare them with each other as if that would bring change to the church he was currently visiting. Paul, did not use condemnation to bring behavioral (heart) change by way of telling one church how great another church was. That would be the same as telling one church how far they fell short of another church. And, none of us is the Standard, for each other. There is only One Standard. If we spend our time looking at each other and trying to best one another or even be like one another, then haven't we simply taken our eyes off of the One that we should all be looking at?

Bearmaster, you most certainly don't want to bring condemnation on anyone, I am sure of that. It would be like telling one of my sons that his brother is more loving than he is, and much more thoughtful and caring than he and can't he be more like his brother. Why would one say this except to spur him to step it up in those areas? I would much rather my son grew into that love on his own volition than to do it out of reaction of what I said to him.

For what my opinion is worth, I thought Paul was spot on, I also agree with Lysa, that could have only come from the Holy Spirit. We all have to remember, it's impossible to know someones heart over the internet. I am only speaking for myself in regards to all types of forums I am a member of, I occasionally take a break, just to let the highly debated threads get way on down the road and get lost in the mix. It is very easy, I said this again, very easy to let just a couple words on threads draw you back in, remember this is not a contest were there is a winner, we all are winners when we get something out of a thread, but we all are losers when they get heated, and it breaks the spirit of the thread.
Mr. Bill

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Bill

Brethren is as usual in these threads the whole point is being missed. I posed a question in a reflective way of what would happen if one did spend 6 or 7 hours reading the word. Perhaps I could have worded the question a bit differently. Perhaps I could have asked what would happen if one spent extended time listening to or reading the word? But during the course of the thread the question got lost in issues in issues of legalism and condemnation.

Look. To say that the great majority of the American church is Bible illiterate is not judgement but a fact. Whether you want to call it the apostate church or fallen away church or call it whatever. The American church is suffering from malnutrition of God's word. Yes there are a few blessed exceptions. And God be praised for those churches that are Jesus Word centered. But the fact remains that American Christans know very little, if any Bible.

To say Christians need to read and listen to more scriptures is not legalism or condemnation. It is a fact if spiritual life. Just as one has to eat physicallly to stay healthy so one has to eat spiritually to stay healthy. One needs an intake of the word of God to stay strong in the tbings of Christ. If anyone feels they do not need the word of God to stay strong in Christ then you are a better Christian than me.

Some object to me using the persecuted as an example. In other words to say the persecuted value the word more than we is putting people on a guilt trip. Then we should not look to the oersecuted as examples for prayer, as examples for holiness, etc. Because it may put people on a guilt trip. Ok. What can I say. But I surely do not see any godly examples coming out of the Western church.

Bearmaster.

bearmaster, I remember once not too long ago (this year) where this same topic was brought up and pretty much fell on its face then, too.

The issue is not how "Bible literate" someone is that makes them a lover of God and "doer of the Word". You know that. We all know that knowledge of the Bible is no guarantee that one will be a lover of Christ. Many people with incredible knowledge of the Bible actually persecute the Church.

I don't know if people suffer so much from "malnutrition of God's word" as much as "malnutrition of Christ's life" in them.

I am reminded of the prodigal son's father who did not upbraid his young, wayward son or point out how he should be more like his older brother. He was wise not to do that, because the older brother had his own heart issues as do we all and as do the precious saints in persecuted countries.

I believe we are encouraged by each other's godly example and I believe it does motivate us and encourage us when we see what great things God can do in someone's life who is completely submitted to Him. And I think you were really trying to encourage everyone by pointing out what Christ is doing in the lives of the persecuted church.

This is how the persecuted church has always encouraged me. By their love for the Lord in the midst of severe trials and persecution.

Just-in you cannot have the life of Christ in you apart from His word being in you. Jesus says man lives on every word that proceeds from His mouth. Also Jesus spoke of His words being spirit and life. Peter said to Jesus you have the words if eternal life

The godly life you speak of must come from the word of God being in one's life. The Psalmist ask how can a young man keep his way pure. By keeping it according to Your word. The Psalmist also says that Your word I have treasured in my heart that I might not sin against you.

Giiven the sermons in this forum that stress the importance of God's word in one's life. I am amazed at the casual attitude that is being displayed over the need to read the word of God. As I said earlier the Christian who thinks they do not need the word of Gid is much better than me. I need the word.

At the risk if being accused of putting someone on a guilt trip. Those in persecuted nations value the word far more than we do in the Western church. They are willing to risk their lives to own a copy of scriptures. Christians in the West will seldom open the word to have their life changed.

Again the issue in the American church is not too much word. But far too little of it.

Bearmaster.

There was a Denny Kenniston artcle posted by Greg on the Anabaptist. The article described how the Anabaptist lived out the life of Christ in their homes and work.

One if the tbings mentioned in the article was there was always an open New Testament in the home or shop. Always that precious brother or sister was found reading it.

So how is it the Anabaptists found a need to read the word and it is being downplayed here?

Bearmaster.