"Then Paul makes very plain that physical perfection on our human body level is not for our present life: a warning note to those who offer complete physical healings and major on a physical healing ministry. Paul tells us that our bodies remain corrupted and mortal. The replacement of corruption by incorruption is only at the Lord's coming (1 Corinthians 15:42-44;52-55). meanwhile, let's not fool ourselves on the physical level. We "suffer" with all the creation, and our "salvation" on that level is by hope, not faith. It is a prospect not within our present reach (8:23-25)."

Norman Grubb

http://www.normangrubb.com/Paul's%20Key%20to%20the%20Liberated%20Life.htm

(This is the same link referenced in another posting.)

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Mike Balog

I know I said I would drop it, but I just happend to wonder back here, and noticed there were some comments made that perhaps I should address. First of, If I have offended any of my brothers or sisters in Christ, I am truely sorry. I do not want to have any argument with any of you. If you do not agree with the revelations of the Bible I have recieved, that is fine. We have common ground, Jesus Christ is the way , the truth and the life. Thats a great start. I agree that I sounded very harsh to some of you. I dont mean to sound harsh, I just have this desire, to help others see what I believe is a more extensive deliverance the Lord wants for us, than just our future in Heaven. I do not mean to imply if you dont accept it here, you wont go to heaven. I just mean that I have compassion for the sick, and poor, and would like to be able to show them, their God wants to be their exceeding great reward.

I have no ill feelings towards any of you, and I hope that you can forgive me if you have any towards me. I just wanted to come here, and share the Good News of Peace with you guys. To help those who claim the so called 'Prosperity Gospel' is false doctrine, I wanted to show those guys, that its not false. Its no different to me than if I wanted to try and show a lost soul about Jesus Christ.

I have compassion, and althought I do a horrible job at showing that, I am very sorry to you all. I see the Church today as being greatly divided, and thats not something which we need. So again I say, I love you all, you are my brothers and my sisters. We are seated together in Christ Jesus. Perhaps, I'll talk more to you guys, I will pray that the Lord will give me patience, to answer more... lovingly from now on. May God Bless us all, may his Holy Spirit help us walk together through the Word of Truth.


Mitch

Alrighty then, let us continue more peacefully with our discussion on divine healing. First let me state, that I do not think of myself as being greedy, to me, this is just an issue of accepting a gift from my heavenly Father. First off, lets just go with the words of Jesus Christ.

John 14 (KJV)
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
13 And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.


That of course isn't really a direct promise of healing, however, we know Jesus went around healing the sick. The Bible actually states most times, that he 'healed all the sick' when he went places. Except his own hometown, it says he could not do many great works there, because of their unbelief. So I feel the Lord is showing us here, that as a believer, we will take the name of Jesus, and be able to speak healing into any situation.

Like I said, thats not where I read the promises of healing, but it is a place where I can go when I need something taken care of in my life, and use the name of Jesus as we have been given the right to do, and Jesus as he said, will bring it to pass.


So perhaps this is a good place to start. I do hope I can be more Christlike from now on with the conversations in here.


Mitch

Well, this is a pleasant surprise. Thank you both for your humility, Mitch and Greg; or rather thanks be to God for giving you that grace.

To repeat the Galatians 5:22-23 list again: love, joy, peace, patience, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self control; let us not neglect them :)

"If ye shall ask anything in my name, I will do it."

Sounds pretty comprehensive, and certainly not to be ignored or passed off as "too good to be true" without due consideration.

The Bible qualifies this concept of "ask and ye shall receive" several places in the N.T.

James 1 (NASB)
5 But if any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all generously and without reproach, and it will be given to him.
6 But he [b]must ask in faith without any doubting[/b], for the one who doubts is like the surf of the sea, driven and tossed by the wind.
7 For that man [b]ought not to expect[/b] that he will receive [b]anything[/b] from the Lord,
8 being a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways.

The idea being that one must actually have faith that the Lord will grant the request (the context here is about asking for wisdom, but it would seem to me to be easily extended to a request for "anything"), before one can "expect" to "receive." I think the Lord will sometimes still graciously give anyway, but we would have no grounds to expect Him to do so.

James 4 (NASB)
2 You lust and do not have; so you commit murder. You are envious and cannot obtain; so you fight and quarrel. [b]You do not have because you do not ask[/b].
3 [b]You ask and do not receive[/b], [b][u]because[/u] you ask with [u]wrong motives[/u][/b], so that you may spend it on your pleasures.
4 You adulteresses, do you not know that friendship with the world is hostility toward God? Therefore whoever wishes to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

Here James is, well, not being very kind to certain people who are driven by lusts and worldliness. First he says they "do not have" because they "do not ask," but then says they "ask and do not receive" because they "ask with wrong motives," specifically that they intend to spend the blessing on their own selfish desires (if that's a reasonable interpretation of "pleasures," and I think so).

1 John 5 (KJV)
14 And this is the [b]confidence[/b] that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing [b]according to his will[/b], he heareth us:
15 And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

Here, I think, is the key: "according to his will."

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Ron Bailey

Good evening/day to all, wherever you may live.

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Zeke Oosthuis

Hi ZekeO

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Ron Bailey

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Zeke Oosthuis