Ability vs. order. Age old question.

Women have the ability to teach and preach, but it is God's order that says not to do so onto men.

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Christiaan

the summit button malfunctioned, sorry about the double post.

I could be wrong, and I want God to show me when I am. He gifts and chooses whoever he pleases and there have been many men saved under the ministry of a woman of God.

Many godly men will tell you that they have learned the most about God from their mother(a woman).

by rbanks

Hi,
The Scripture is very clear that women are NOT to teach men, and not to have authority over them.

I have talked to some missionary women who have started churches overseas and have struggled with being put into the situation of having to teach men. They have made it clear to all that they did not want a position of leadership, but ended up having to do so for a period of time until a male was suitably fit for the position.

While there is no "difference" in the position male/female [b]in Christ[/b]; there is a difference of authority and the position of authority here on this earth. It is a man's job to be the protector, to be the "one who takes the heat", so to speak. Not for a woman to have to try to deal with all the enemies on the front lines herself.

(Although when God was making a point, as with Barak and Deborah, a woman killed the enemy by putting him to sleep with milk and driving a stake through his temple...but, it was almost a mark of shame to the men.)

It certainly does not mean that women have nothing worthwhile to say; and that does not limit me in my gifts. On the contrary, when I have proper authority protecting me, I have much more freedom to be who God intended me to be.

There is still much controversy regarding women speaking "at all" or prophesying in church.

(Although God can use a mule to speak, if He so chooses.)

Yet,there are still many opportunities outside of the church congregation, in smaller groups to testify, pray and have discussion.

Plus I believe that women have a lot of influence with their husbands, and when the role of the husband is proper, the expressions of joint fellowship between husband and wife are often expressed to the congregation via the husband.

This sermon by Denny Kenaston is very good regarding the place of the man. (sorry, the only way I knew how to get this was to copy the address of the link...)

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=12539

[i]For the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church.......therefore as the church is subject to Christ....[/i]

It is not simply the expression of women inside of the church that is the issue in this matter. It is the position of the man, it is the position of the head of the man, Christ.

And when the position of Christ in the church is proper, and the position of the man under Christ is proper, then the position of the woman will not even be a question; as the body will function then as it ought to. And the woman will be [b]able[/b] to function as she was meant to, by God's design.

Just another perspective from a sister in the Lord.

In Christ,
Lori

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Lori Salyer

Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

All the doctrines of Christ is what is intended, not the doctrines of the Church of Man, but the doctrines of Christ. Leaving all these aside, which is particularly of the new babes in the faith, Paul says there is something to go onward and that is perfection. What is our Perfection? It is Christ in you the Hope of Glory; Col 1:27.
He is our only perfection, as the doctrine of baptisms, note "s" plural. We the body of Christ have only 2 baptisms that are peculiar to Christ.
The baptism in the Holy Spirit and the baptism in water. For we are all baptized into One Spirit.

We must be born again of the Spirit, which is the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus and water, which is the water of Life that He give us by this birthing, and also baptized into the Holy Spirit sent from Christ with prayer to the Father, answered in manifestation at Pentecost.

Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

All these principles are the Same. Outward to Inward. This is going on into perfection. By the Christ in us.

The Spirit of Christ now our spirit, and the Water of Life proceeding from the throne of God, in that Spirit of Life which is in Christ Jesus, and in perfectness proceeding from Him that is in us.

Joh 4:14 But de whosoever oV an drinketh pinw of ek the water udwr that oV I egw shall give didwmi him autoV shall diyaw never eiV aiwn ou mh thirst diyaw; but alla the water udwr that oV I shall give didwmi him autoV shall be ginomai in en him autoV a well phgh of water udwr springing up allomai into eiV everlasting aiwnioV life zwh.
Re 21:6 And kai he said epw unto me moi, It is done ginomai. I egw am eimi Alpha a and kai Omega w, the beginning arch and kai the end teloV. I egw will give didwmi unto him that is athirst diyaw of ek the fountain phgh of the water udwr of life zwh freely dwrean.
Re 22:1 And kai he shewed deiknuw me moi a pure kaqaroV river potamoV of water udwr of life zwh, clear lamproV as wV crystal krustalloV, proceeding ekporeuomai out of ek the throne qronoV of God qeoV and kai of the Lamb arnion.
Re 22:17 And kai the Spirit pneuma and kai the bride numjh say legw, Come ercomai. And kai let him that heareth akouw say epw, Come ercomai. And kai let him that is athirst diyaw come ercomai. And kai whosoever will qelw, let him take lambanw the water udwr of life zwh freely dwrean.

Clear as Crystal, that is the Rock that Christ told Peter He would build His Church upon, that is Himself proceeding from the throne of God and the Lamb. Who's Throne? The Greek reads; from the throne God and Lamb.

This is the perfection which is being made in us the Body of Christ His Church.

If any woman is in this work of being made perfect, then its up to man to be in the same mode of life. She can teach perfectness in Christ as well and many times better than man. This does not take away from the teachings of Paul to the new churches, because woman and men outside of this perfectness cannot attain to the perfection that is in Christ without time. Then we are in admonition from Paul, that we can go on into perfection and can receive without prejudice, teaching from those that have been given the gift of teaching, be it Man or Woman.

Just as being baptized into water, which gets us wet and is only a symbol of what Christ has done in us, an is most certainly needed to show what the inward is becoming. Freely drinking from the water of Life Himself, which baptizes us inward, not outward.

So is the gift of teaching, women cannot teach outwardly to outwardly manifest men for they cannot receive, because of their ego's that are puffed up by their old father Satan. Going on into perfection which is inwardly, we can receive from each other, in submission to each other and receiving from each other be it male of female. So is The speaking of Christ and His church in
Eph 5.

Ephesians 5:21-33 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God. Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body. Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife see that she reverence her husband.

In Perfection, you choose what the male and female roles are in Christ. They are of ONE flesh, which is of One Spirit quickened to accomplish that which is the great MYSTERY; which is Christ in you the Hope of Glory. Col 1:27

Then how are we to be presented? Colossians 1:28 Whom we preach , warning every man , and teaching every man in all wisdom ; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus :

This is not just man, but the whole of the race of human beings, that is, man faced descendants of Adam.

May all men and women be set free because of the Christ in them and that they see the Christ in others because they see the Christ in themselves.

I love to listen to Pastor Melissa Scott, God has blessed her with a command of the languages of the Scripture that is pleasing to the soul-mind of all who hear Him through her.

In Christ: Phillip

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Phillip

Hi Sister,

As you stated-

"The Scripture is very clear that women are NOT to teach men, and not to have authority over them.

It certainly does not mean that women have nothing worthwhile to say; and that does not limit me in my gifts. On the contrary, when I have proper authority protecting me, I have much more freedom to be who God intended me to be.

There is still much controversy regarding women speaking "at all" or prophesying in church."


This is what I am saying, I believe in the proper order of God, although as you well stated their is much controversy on the place of women in the church. Their are many women out of place in the home and in the church as well as men. The primary authority is not for the woman that is clear from scripture. God made them different and he made the woman from the man.

All I'm saying if God anoints a woman (meaning God has join himself to her for the work of ministry)lets not shoot her down because she is a woman.

As you stated-
"(Although God can use a mule to speak, if He so chooses.)"

Now, Nobody needs to be doing anything in the church unless they are anointed to do it!

Personally, I don't believe pastoring a church is primarily for a woman and I had prefer to here a man preach or teach. But I must believe God can choose who he desires.

Now if I was in a very poor country and in desperate need to hear the gospel preached and taught to me, and an anointed woman of God was sent to my village and many of my people were saved and blessed of God, I wouldn't care whether male or female, I would thank God for visiting us.

sincerely,
rbanks

I have personally been ministered to by Men, Women, and also children in my travels and will always keep an open mind to all of these because God can and will use "all" even a Donkey. Balaam had just seen God speak through his donkey. Now, doesn't that beat all? People, if God can use a donkey for His work, He can certainly use us. After hearing the donkey speak, God opened Balaam's eyes (Nu 22:31) and effectively made Balaam understand that God and God alone would give him the words to speak to Balak. God used a sinner such as Paul to change the world, he can and will use all of us as well, just my opinion.

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Bill

I know that many refer to the donkey speaking as a means of suggesting God doing things in rather unorthodox ways, but let us be careful here. For God also spoke out of a burning bush, and I have yet to see anyone defending the ability of a bush to speak.

As others have mentioned, context is everything.

For example if indeed we take the passage in Galatians about "no difference" to mean what some are trying to make it say, then Paul is out of line suggesting that a wife should submit to her husband. Also, then children could say, "there is no difference, so I am going to rule over my parents."

This is not how God has ordered things. Simply because God did something in one verse, does not set a precedent for His ways for all time, and just because it "works", or because we have been blessed does not mean that it is God's way either.

I can be blessed by a word from a woman, but she is not to have authority in the Church over men.

I know it is becoming common place for women to teach in Church under the submission to their male pastors, but we do not see this in Scripture.

The letters to Timothy and Titus are pretty clear on Church practice, and state that the ones teaching the Church be a "husband of one wife".

Obviously, a woman cannot be a husband, so it is safe to say that this would disqualify them from teaching in the Church apart from teaching the younger women, or the children.

Remember brethren Eve thought her way was right, but she was deceived. She could have said, "ah but it is good, it makes me feel good, and useful, even important."

But we know how that turned out.

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patrick heaviside

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TJ

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I believe a woman as well as a man can teach and preach. I do not understand about pastoring but I believe that is not what we are talking about here. The title 'is' about women teaching.

And I'm not saying every woman preaching out there is called of God, just like every man out there is not called of God. Some just got up and went... female and/or male.

And besides, no one really hears what's being taught anyway unless they have ears to hear, period. And that applies whether a man is doing the teaching or a woman is doing the teaching.