| Poster | Thread | Robert_79
Member
Joined: 2007/3/13
Posts: 23
Dallas
| | Re: | | Very interesting subject indeed. The church I attend is currently considering this topic very seriously. We moved away from a formal membership that meant nothing perhaps 20 years ago. But now...
Now we have a grave concern that many in our midst who regularly come to services (where the true Gospel is strongly proclaimed) may not be converted. They hear many exhortations to examine themselves, and we regularly speak of the Matthew 7 passage, and yet it seems that many are comfortable coming on Sunday morning, and have a sense that they are a part of the church. When, in fact, this may not be the case. Mark Dever makes this statement: "Church membership signifies a church's corporate endorsement of a person's salvation." And we are concerned that we may be giving some a false sense of assurance by not having some distinction between who is a part of the church and who is not.
I am not certain of this, but it seems that in the New Testament, there wasn't much need for a pen and paper type of membership. Why? Two reasons: 1. The church was persecuted, so those who were attending meetings were often risking their lives, or at least being ostracized by family to attend. For the most part, they were true believers. 2. The power of God was present in such a way in the early chapters of Acts that Acts 5:13 says: "But none of the rest dared to associate with them: however, the people held them in high esteem." There was a very marked difference between the church and those who were not the church.
I am not sure that membership is the answer. But in a day when easy believism is so prevalent, it seems somehow we must get back to a place where there is a clear line between the church and the world. I thought that strongly preaching the Gospel would naturally accomplish this, but it doesn't. Because unconverted men find it easy (and genuine believers sometimes find it possible) to listen to a message, and think of others, and ignore the piercing Word of God, and thus continue to live in sin. Anyway, these are just some thoughts and struggles. Is membershi the answer? I don't think it is the whole answer, but perhaps a step in the right direction? More than anything, we need God's power in our lives. I am open to comments and or insight.
Has anyone read Dever's book 9 Marks of a Healthy Church? I'm going to read it, as it seems he may have some insight. Thanks, and may God bless you all. |
|  2008/2/6 1:30 | Profile | Miccah
Member
Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin
| | Re: | | Edit: Mispost.
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Christiaan
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| | 2008/2/6 3:03 | Profile | jimp
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Joined: 2005/6/18
Posts: 1481
| | Re: | | beloved, the church i wrote about earlier has home groups all over the city;over 1000 of them where you get close attention and fellowship. we have no collections and only mission appeals. jimp |
| | 2008/2/6 3:23 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
jimp wrote:
hi,i offer a testimony of a church i have been with, on and off for 37 yrs.after many years of pastoring southern baptist churces, roy receieved the baptism in yhe Holy Spirit and left under pressure a large sb church. he was led of the Lord many months later to buy a home with some acreage. after moving in he held a service with his family of 5,a man knocked on the door and asked if this was where the new church was going to be. as a sb pastor he was always caught up in numbers,God told him to get out of the book of numbers and into the book of acts. for many years we had no members,no deacons,no paid staff,no paid musicians etc. he would say "you can't join this church: the only Thing you can join is Jesus" i have seen thousands saved and filled with the holy spirit and millions given to missionaries.many missionaries sent out from here, many miracles of every kind. all votes of the church were unanamous...all in favor say amen...this church is not perfect(allows me to attend}by any means but it is sweet and bears much fruit even with close to 20,000 attendees noone has heard of us.jimp
jimp, [edited]!!!!! I was raised in the same kind of church in Indiana with the exception that the wife did the ministering and the husband was the pastor and they came out of a Luthern church. Sis Mary received the Holy Ghost first and Bro Herman almost left her over it!! Then he was baptized with Him and they became a team of steam!! Many churches coveted their anointing in the early years, wanting them to join up with their denomination but the Lord told them, "If you want them to tell you what to preach, go ahead and join up with them." After the Lord told them that, they never considered another offer to join with a church.
And their motto was almost the same as your church, "If you want to join this church, just join in." LOL And the same is true about people getting help, people knew where to go to get help - far out of the city into the country where Jesus was allowed to move!!!!
The majority of people who came may not have stayed and that was ok because the Lord told them upfront that only a few would stay but MANY would come from help and receive it. Over the 40 years they ministered, literally thousands passed through their humble doors (they gutted a small farm house to make a church). Let me tell ya, the praise and worship they had would have been kicked out of any other church but oh my to hear just a piano and singing those old hymns takes me way back!!! The Lord spoiled me but He allowed me to see, I believe, how He wants church... He wants to be the head and wants to be allowed to move no matter how silly we might think it is - He usually does confound the wise!!
Thank you for your testimony!!!! |
| | 2008/2/6 5:28 | | ginnyrose
Member
Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi
| | Re: | | Quote:
Is membership the answer? I don't think it is the whole answer, but perhaps a step in the right direction?
Seems to me you understand the solution quite well what happens where there are no formal membership rolls.
When you have the problem you described: " Now we have a grave concern that many in our midst who regularly come to services (where the true Gospel is strongly proclaimed) may not be converted" it is a real temptation to go to extremes.
This problem demonstrates again the wisdom our forefathers had in the way they did church. Moderns think they were old - fashioned, legalistic and since we are so much more spiritual we can eliminate those things that irritate and be super-spiritual because after all "we have the Holy Spirit directing us!" implying the people of yesteryear were outside of the Holy Spirit's leading. So we go on our own way and find our selves in a mess. And we scream for revival but are not willing to stop and consider what things contributed to the decline of the church and the things we may practice that keeps us on that slippery slope.
Yes, there is no one solution to fix the problem, but a combination starting with repentance, then submission to God and his word (which results in obedience) and then to each other and the church leaders...so we need formal membership to accomplish these goals because it means we are committed to the welfare of each other similar to what vows do to a couple (except those are for life).
A fundamental problem is we can become so idealistic about how humans will now function corporately after being born-again that we ignore human nature which is still very much well and alive in a body. Then we have problems and wonder "what went wrong?" Face it folks: we see this human nature interfering here on SI all the time. Just think how often we have to apologize for things written/said? And why do we need moderators to ride herd on us all? Human nature...can't get away from it all. Seems to me Paul calls it carnality...and we all have it abiding within in different doses which becomes apparent depending on what is said. So if you are really spiritual we will learn from these exposures and crucify that thing.
My observations and understanding of human nature and history....
Blessings,
ginnyrose
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Sandra Miller
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| | 2008/2/6 10:40 | Profile | iansmith
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Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL
| | Re: | | You know, I think if this question was posed to an 19th century evangelist like DL Moody or Sam Jones the answer might be something like this.
'All sorts of people refuse to be connected with the church of God. Some of them presume to make it a doctrinal stance, others simply have no desire to fellowship with the Body of Christ. We have no problem being a part to political affiliations, no problem signing our name on the registry at a social club. However when it comes to putting our names on a list of saints so often we recoil.'
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Ian Smith
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| | 2008/2/6 10:45 | Profile | Tears_of_joy
Member
Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554
| | Re: | | Quote:
iansmith wrote:
You know, I think if this question was posed to an 18th century evangelist like DL Moody or Sam Jones the answer might be something like this.
'All sorts of people refuse to be connected with the church of God. Some of them presume to make it a doctrinal stance, others simply have no desire to fellowship with the Body of Christ. [b]We[/b] have no problem being a part to political affiliations, no problem signing our name on the registry at a social club, but when it comes to putting their name on a list of saints people recoil.'
Hello Ian, did you compose that? Who are 'we'? Because of course not all of us have 'no problem being a part to political affiliations'.
Quote:
Intens4Him wrote:
jimp, oh my gosh!!!!!
Hello Lisa, since my english is not native and I am not familiar with this word, could you explain what it means 'gosh'? Thanks. |
| | 2008/2/6 10:59 | Profile | Miccah
Member
Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin
| | Re: | | So again, where is church membership biblical?
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Christiaan
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| | 2008/2/6 11:01 | Profile | iansmith
Member
Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL
| | Re: | | Tears,
Haha, I composed that, but I tried to do it in the style of a 19th century evangelist. Evanglists tend to speak in generalities, when an evangelist says 'We' it means that the most common denominator of the audience.
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Ian Smith
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| | 2008/2/6 11:32 | Profile | Tears_of_joy
Member
Joined: 2003/10/30
Posts: 1554
| | Re: | | Quote:
iansmith wrote:
I composed that, but I tried to do it in the style of a 19th century evangelist. Evanglists tend to speak in generalities, when an evangelist says 'We' it means that the most common denominator of the audience.
Ok, thanks. I just saw your book list for reading, and that's says all :) |
| | 2008/2/6 11:38 | Profile |
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