But Katy, surely it was worth the shock and pain on that occasion, to see the pastor repent and begin to live and preach more nearly according to Truth! Wow! All because you had the courage to approach him on the matter, and he the humility to listen!

ChrisJD wrote:
Hi again Jeannette and thank you for the response :-)

I hope it will be alright if I do not respond directly to the things you suggested, at least not right away. The reason is I had something specific in mind and was hoping to look at that in particular.

I was thinking of all of this in regards to our asking how can God hold us accountable to do things that we cannot perform, and this be just.

So I was thinking of these things in that context.

What do you think, is there anything that we may have lost that would have made us accountable to do things we cannot render or attain?

is there anything that we may have lost that would have made us accountable to do things we cannot render or attain?

Compliments wrote:
As I said before I am Calvistic to a degree. I was telling my Mother yesterday saying, "One thing that I hope that I will begin to know and that is that I am saved".

It would be great to know that with full assurance of faith, but when you sin, you don't sense that belonging.

Though I agree with Calvinism or I should say I agree with the Bible when it speaks of predestination, but to say that I am saved, your guess is as good as mine. My problem is not the bible, my problem is a matter of believing that He has cleansed me from all unrighteousness. When I think of past sins I think of the foolish decisions that I have made, even though the LORD has forgiven me, I am having a hard time forgiving myself. The people that I have wronged and the wickedness of my actions towards them, I literally hang my head in shame. When I see them, I go thru the same ritual I did the last time I saw them, "Will you forgive me". Their answer is always, "I have forgiven you, don't let it bother you".

When Calvinist sin, do they still believe that they are saved no matter what? If you died in a backslidden condition, the wages of sin is death, is heaven awaiting for him or is hell?

ChrisJD wrote:

In case anyone else is considering this question also, to narrow the consideration, I'm looking at Genesis chapter 3 and verse 7. This may be compared with chapter 2 verse 25.

broclint wrote:
This thread is truly amazing!!

It demonstrates the utter futility and foolishness to which people can go to defend a "position" rather than to merely take what the Word of God says and be done with it.

theopenlife wrote:
...Ultimately, I believe one may only take confidence in one thing... that he has trusted himself to the mercy of God in Christ, and not in works...

Have you considered the words, "slave of righteousness"? It occurred to me, suddenly and powerfully, to ask myself, "why do you keep coming back to the Lord, after so many failures and embarrassing faults? Why do you keep reading your bible and praying, when at times you hit a brick wall of doubt and ignorance? Why do you keep looking for ways to improve your obedience, when for a season you look for ease in vain things and find none? Because YOU'RE A SLAVE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS.

davyman wrote:
I think there is a huge misconception by Arminians on this thread that Calvinist ascribe to the doctrine of saying the "sinner's prayer" is a ticket to heaven.

This is not what the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints teaches. Rather, Perseverance of the saints teaches that once God has renewed the heart of a sinner through the application of the redemption wrought by Christ upon the cross, He will continue to be saved and show forth the fruits of that salvation. The sinner perseveres because of Christ, but he continually shows himself as one who has been changed by Christ. God has saved the individual and will sanctify him until the end when he is ultimately glorified, and in heaven.

It does not mean man has a license to sin. 1 Peter 1:23,

"Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever." In other words when God changes a heart of stone to a heart of flesh, cannot be revoked. It is a deposit of an incorruptible seed that cannot be taken away. Romans 11:29, says, “For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.”

If the promises of God cannot be revoked, then perseverance is a biblical and logical necessity. “I am surely convinced that neither angels, nor powers, nor principalities, nor death, nor life, nor things present, nor things to come…will separate us from the love by which the Lord embraces us in Christ” [Romans 8:38-39].

Katy-did wrote:
Hi Jeannette,

Quote:

---

But Katy, surely it was worth the shock and pain on that occasion, to see the pastor repent and begin to live and preach more nearly according to Truth! Wow! All because you had the courage to approach him on the matter, and he the humility to listen!

---

Yes, many things are worth the shock and pain, and even persecution one may receive in speaking out.

The hard core Calvinists left and started their own church. So I would say even the Pastor went through some serious soul searching....yet what I have come across is:

Many who do believe in their eternal security are many times (I hate to use this word, but I will).. *Brainwashed* by certain doctrines of men, not realizing how hurtful many of those doctrines are in the end to souls. I know this Pastor was truly saved, and the Lord did a mighty work in him, (not over night...it never is).

He now has a Church that is so rich in the LOVE of God, and God blessed his obedience.

That's what I call AMAZING GRACE!!!

Never be afraid to speak out, especially when the Lord puts something on your heart ( obedience )to do so. You won't be popular for doing so, but the Lord will show you now and again the fruit of that obedience that far outweighs the pain.