| Poster | Thread | tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA
| | What constitutes a Biblical marriage? | | What constitutes a Biblical marriage?
Are these people married in the eyes of God? Has God bound these satan worshippers together in holy matrimony?
Example #1
The minister was, and is, a false convert. It was found out later that he was living a life of complete evil
drugs, adultery and abuse
you name it he was doing it. He had many deceived.
The bride is a professing atheist.
The groom was on drugs during the ceremony and does not remember say I do, or even hearing any of the statements.
They got married to qualify for a trip to Mexico that was for married couples only.
Example #2
The Vegas Marriage
Preacher got his license from the back of a Rolling Stone magazine and has never professed Christ. (He dresses like Elvis)
Bride and Groom never went to Church and have lived their lives devoted to the work of satan
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TJ
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|  2007/6/1 17:53 | Profile | roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: What constitutes a Biblical marriage? | | Quote:
Matthew 5:34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:Matthew 5:37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Is the marriage vow more important to take than the very words of Christ? Sometimes traditions overrides the word of God.
Compliment, you are trampling on sacred territory! Watch it there! But then - maybe you are on the path to some painful truths - that lead to some glorious eternal truths.
Have you ever wondered WHY Jesus said those words? Is it because he understood human nature? Was he thinking of Israels history like what they promised at Mt. Sinai, after Moses gave the commandments: Everything the Lord said, we will do or after Joshua read the law : < i> Whatever you have commanded us we will do. Josh. 1: 16
Joshua, essentially said, Right!!! Oh, sure!!! when he told them: You are NOT ABLE to serve the Lord. But the people said, NO, we WILL serve the Lord. Josh. 24
You know the story! Can we expect those in our highly dysfunctional, messed up culture to do better than the Israelites?!
When I see the lovely young couples standing at the alter making their wedding vows in a church full of happy people, my heart always grieves. I know that these young folk have no idea of whats ahead. They have no idea of what they CAN do and CANT do. Like most of us, when we were young, they think they can manage life. They have yet to face the reality that, just maybe they CANT keep their vows, and they CANT make their spouse keep them, and they can't make their marriage happy, let along change their hair color: "And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black." Matt 5:36 (Okay, maybe that's not the best illustration for our culture - but you get the point!)
In spite of our horrendous statistics re marriages, etc our culture continues to play a game by rules (vows, hopes) it CANT keep. I call this gross denial. And when we Christians expect more of people than they can do, we are no better. We are playing by the same useless rules.
So why did Jesus say that it is EVIL to make vows beyond the simple yes and no. Is it because that sets people up to live a lie, or to think they can control their future, or trust in something besides God
Thankfully Christ knows that we are totally incapable of managing life, keeping vows, and keeping the law. Thats why we need the new life he has offered us. Why would we insist on anything else?
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2007/6/1 19:58 | Profile | HomeFree89
Member
Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 797
Indiana
| | Re: What constitutes a Biblical marriage? | | Quote:
tjservant wrote:
What constitutes a Biblical marriage?
Are these people married in the eyes of God? Has God bound these satan worshippers together in holy matrimony?
Example #1
The minister was, and is, a false convert. It was found out later that he was living a life of complete evil
drugs, adultery and abuse
you name it he was doing it. He had many deceived.
The bride is a professing atheist.
The groom was on drugs during the ceremony and does not remember say I do, or even hearing any of the statements.
They got married to qualify for a trip to Mexico that was for married couples only.
Example #2
The Vegas Marriage
Preacher got his license from the back of a Rolling Stone magazine and has never professed Christ. (He dresses like Elvis)
Bride and Groom never went to Church and have lived their lives devoted to the work of satan
Hi TJ,
I'd say those people are married. The Bible is full of cases were there are people that weren't following God, but it still says they were husband and wife.
Ahab and Jezebel are examples of this. Even though they were idolaters they were still married.
If you think the people that in the two examples you gave should get remarried or married for really, then all those who marry before coming to Christ should.
Jordan
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Jordan
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| | 2007/6/1 20:23 | Profile | HomeFree89
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Indiana
| | | 2007/6/1 20:27 | Profile | tjservant
Member
Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA
| | Re: | | Quote:
I'd say those people are married.
So a man that is a confirmed satan worshipper can perform a marriage that God views as good, just, and binding?
If the minister doesnt matter
what does?
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TJ
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| | 2007/6/1 20:34 | Profile | tjservant
Member
Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA
| | Re: What constitutes a Biblical marriage? | | I thought I should say a few things to clarify my reasoning for asking such questions. I am not looking for excuses or trying to find reasons to permit ungodly actions.
I have often faced questioning at work or different locations about the topic of marriage and it seems that many people attribute the Godliness of their minister to their marriage. This is from the same crowd that thinks they are saved because they are members of the Church.
It got me to thinking about some of the situations I have seen or heard about in my life. I am simply looking for the insight of others.
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TJ
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| | 2007/6/1 23:37 | Profile | HopePurifies
Member
Joined: 2007/4/12
Posts: 181
Georgia, USA
| | Re: | | I have heard that the whole idea of a minister performing a marriage is residue from Catholic priesthood. Does anyone know if this is true?
What do people here think of marriages that are recorded in a family bible, but do not use a state license?
I think everyone agrees that what a marriage should be is an agreement between two individuals to live their lives together as a new family. This agreement should be made before God, their families, and everyone else.
But what do we think of marriages that aren't as they should? Like the examples tjservant mentioned?
Well I think that a person should be completely aware of the fact they are getting married (ie: not drugged up). They should also get married for the sake of being married (not for some other reason like a discount cruise as in the example). But a man and a woman who enter a marriage together, aware of what they are doing, for the purpose of starting a family (even if a 2-person family) then they are married. Otherwise we wouldn't have the question of newly saved women leaving or staying with their husbands.
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Melanie
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| | 2007/6/2 3:09 | Profile | Nile
Member
Joined: 2007/3/28
Posts: 403
Raleigh, NC
| | Re: What constitutes a Biblical marriage? | | I believe both examples are real marriages.
In the first example, if you groom did not want to get married or know about it, I would say it is not a marriage. As you stated it though, he wanted to get married and agreed to it.
The motives for getting married don't affect whether it is a marriage or not. If it did, hardly any non-believers would be truly married.
The minister doesn't matter at all in my opinion. I don't believe you need a minister at all.
I believe the bare essential of a Biblical marriage is this:
***
If a man and a woman both agree to be married, then they are married at a time they both agree upon.
***
That is the [b]bare necessity[/b] of marriage. I believe God will recognize any marriage that has this component. The ceremony, the minister, the approval and recognition of the government, family and friends - these are all secondary things. Let me give some examples which I believe are all marriages in the sight of God.
Example #3
Two people are planning on getting married on June 20th. They are on a plane together on June 19th when the plane crashes in the middle of the ocean. By the grace of God they survive and end up on an island. The islanders don't speak English. There is little of hope of getting off the island anytime soon. With just a private ceremony between the two of them and without the knowledge of the islanders, the government, the family or friends, the two people take each other in marriage as planned on June 20th.
Example #4
Two atheists of different race want to be married. All the families and friends involved except for the two people are extremely racist. They plan the wedding. None of their families or friends attended the wedding. None of their families or friends recognize the marriage as legitimate. Even so, the atheists marry and are seen as married by the government.
Example #5
Two Jews want to be married in an anti-semitic nation. The two Jews have been living in the mountains with other Jews to hide from the government. They have been there 5 years. The families, friends, and elders agree that the marriage is a good idea. Without the approval of the government, the two Jews are married.
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Matthew Miskiewicz
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| | 2007/6/2 9:50 | Profile | tjservant
Member
Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA
| | Re: | | Please dont take any of this the wrong way. I just want to discuss things that have arisen when I talk to people.
Quote:
They should also get married for the sake of being married (not for some other reason like a discount cruise as in the example).
This is one of the big problems today. Why get married? I have heard many people say why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free.
The way the government is set up, its financially smart to get married. Couple discounts are found on everything from hotel rooms to steakhouses. I believe this can affect many areas of the couples lives and is a compelling factor to marry.
Quote:
But a man and a woman who enter a marriage together, aware of what they are doing, for the purpose of starting a family (even if a 2-person family) then they are married.
What do they need to be aware of? That they are entering into an institution ordained by a God they dont believe in? That they will be held accountable whether they believe or not?
Its hard to get the unsaved/unspiritual to understand the things of God.
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TJ
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| | 2007/6/2 10:17 | Profile | PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas
| | Re: | | I think it's interesting to note that though godless people reject pardon through Christ, many still feel impelled to marry. Why is this? Societal norms? Pressure from parents? Government? I don't know of [i]any[/i] ancient civilization or tribes of people alive today that have not inaugurated some kind of marriage vow/covenant system...no matter how primative or paganistic it may be. The ancient Chinese, Greeks, Polynesians, Aztecs. They all had their covenant ceremonies. Even so-called "atheists" get married. When these men and women underwent their vows, did God see them as truly [i]married[/i] according to their official system? I certainly believe so. And God saw it when they [i]broke[/i] those covenants as well, violating their own consciences, storing up even further wrath for themselves on the day of judgment.
I can only speak from a 21st century western Judeo-Christian platform, a civilization to whom the cross of Christ and God's free redemptive pardon has been shown. We are a blessed people to whom the Bible has been given, and, in it, the express will of God for every man and woman, saved or unsaved. The fact that people fulfill their vows before the Justice of the Peace here in the USA, or are married by an Elvis Presley impersonator does not, I believe, invalidate the covenant in God's eyes. For if they [i]break[/i] the covenant they made in Las Vegas, God shall hold such in the balance of His justice. If God is able to bring unrenerate men and women together (which He does) and they opt to get married in underwater scuba gear while diving in the Caribbean Sea, what does it matter? A covenant has still been erected, one which is validated and officiated by the powers and state authorites put in place by God - and such an act is legally binding in the courts of law, as well as, I truly believe, in the eyes of God.
As for those that have legally come together in matrimony while in the flesh for monetary reasons or for purely lustful intentions, I believe God will still hold such accountable. If I, unsanctioned by God, take out a large bank loan to start a questionable buisiness, and lose it all...am I still accountable [b]by God[/b] to pay back the loan? Of course I am! I realize this strange example may not square with many people, but I think the principle is the same: God holds us all morally accountable, even when the original intention of our actions may not have been of Him.
My two cents anyhow. I didn't feel I had any type of divine inspiration while writing this post; just sharing some of my personal convictions, and such are very much open to critique and/or gracious adjustment.
Brother Paul :-)
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Paul Frederick West
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| | 2007/6/2 11:13 | Profile |
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