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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Once Saved...Always Saved???

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 Re:

Quote:

MrBillPro wrote:
Quote:

Ormly wrote:
I'll tell you you are wrong. God is bound His word. How could anyone believe in a "variable' God. Search the scriptures and prove me wrong, if you can. "He is the same yesterday, today, and forever".

2 Timothy 2:9, reads, " . . . the word of God is NOT BOUND



How about showing some respect for it by not ripping it out of context to support some private agenda you may have. Here it is in context:


Consider what I say, and may the Lord give you understanding in all things. Remember that Jesus Christ, of the seed of David, was raised from the dead according to my gospel, for which I suffer trouble as an evildoer, [b]even to the point of chains[/b]; but the word of God is not chained. 2 Timothy 2:7-9 (NKJV)


 2007/7/5 15:07









 Re:

Quote:

whyme wrote:
Ormly,

maybe you could help me understand what you believe the terms born again, new creature in Christ, given a new nature, born of the Spirit, born of incorruptible seed and having the old man crucified with Christ mean for the believer. I can only speculate that these terms are what are meant when someone says we get a new heart at conversion notwithstanding your differences to the application of Ezekiel 36:26 to the individual believer.



Does this sound like God gives a new heart?

Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double minded. James 4:8 (KJV)

Do you blieeve God would give a new heart, in the sense we are given to believe by incomplete rendering of scripture by the OSAS crowd, and then speak to this same people as being doubleminded and in need of purifying theit NEW hearts? How can that be ... especially when God's Grace is seen also by them as, "irresistible"?

Do you really need more explanation?

 2007/7/5 15:16
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3376
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

Ormly wrote:
Quote:


How about showing some respect for it by not ripping it out of context to support some private agenda you may have..




O I am sorry no one here would ever do that, :-(
hey I just read it as a child for "face" value.

We should not judge anyone's eternal destiny. Although we will judge the truth (in ourselves, in others and in doctrine) based on the Word of God, only God can bring about the consequences of His judgements: justification for the righteous and condemnation for the wicked (I Kings 8:32; II Chronicles 6:23). I Corinthians 4:3-5 states,

Because with God nothing is impossible . . . . .

For with God nothing shall be impossible. (Lk:1:37, KJV)

So if God is "Bound" by his word why does scripture say "Because with God nothing is impossible?" if nothing is "IMPOSSIBLE" that could not be said if God had to stay within the bounds of his word, he "may" have to go beyond the bounds of his word to achieve the impossible at some point, I mean that is a real simple thing to see.


_________________
Bill

 2007/7/5 15:46Profile









 Re:

Whyme,

2 Corinthians 10:18
For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but ****whom the Lord commendeth.

2 Timothy 2:15
Study to shew thyself ****approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Those who are the Born Again, washed in the blood, raised up with Christ a New Creation, know they DO NOT go back to what Adam and Eve was before the fall. Those who do believe this have not rightly divided the word of Truth.

After Adam and Eve sinned, eating of the Tree of Good and Evil, God took them both out of the Garden of Eden, placed a sword so no one could re-enter. Why was that? Answer...so they wouldn't eat from the Tree of Life...that would be eternal life...these folks did not have *eternal life* when they were formed out of the dust of the earth. If they had eaten from the tree of life AFTER eating from the tree of Good and Evil, they would have lived forever, in a sinful and disobedient state of existance. God took them out of the garden, and closed it forever for that reason.

Jesus Christ is our Eternal Life, But not to re-construct the old adam nature back to it's original existance, and if it were so, you would still have to eat from that very tree for you to have LIFE or Eternal Life.

Jesus is not a tree, He is God, and you now have to eat of HIM for your Eternal life, under His terms and conditions. You must identify with Him in His death and resurrection life, and HE will give you eternal life when you are quickened and raised up together with Him. He has justified you with His Blood, and saved you by *His* Life. Jesus said I AM the resurrection.

Trying to understand Universalism that has mixed so many different things,trying to go back to our original state before the fall, and becomming like Jesus in the flesh,is not even the Gospel Paul preached. But it is one Satan would love for you( who do not know Jesus Christ)*EDITED* to believe, because he knows there is NO ETERNAL LIFE in this teaching.

Hope that helps!
In Christ
Katy-did

 2007/7/5 16:04
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

dear ormly,

brother this is the second time that you have been asked to please define certain things or terms so we can understand what you mean and you simply won't do so.. why is that?? why will you not simply answer the questions or define the terms so we can understand you better.

please do not think that everyone here who believes in the perseverence of the saints belives the exact same thing concerning doctrine.

why did the author of hebrews quote jeremiah 31:33,34 if this is just for israel and judah. c'mon ormly, there is something more to the equation. did the believers of the old covenant have the Spirit dwelling within them?? i don't believe so.

the believers that james is talking to are acting worldly (much like paul addressed in 1 cor 3). they have envy, lust and wars among them. but james still calls them brethren, hmmm. he is telling them to repent and humble themselves. how is that any different if you or i fall into sin. do we not also need to humble ourselves and repent?? that does not make us losers of our faith (brethren).

if you could please define the terms for us, once again that would help us understand you more..

thanks.

 2007/7/5 16:18Profile









 Re:

Quote:

MrBillPro wrote:
Quote:

Ormly wrote:
Quote:


How about showing some respect for it by not ripping it out of context to support some private agenda you may have..




O I am sorry no one here would ever do that, :-(
hey I just read it as a child for "face" value.

We should not judge anyone's eternal destiny. Although we will judge the truth (in ourselves, in others and in doctrine) based on the Word of God, only God can bring about the consequences of His judgements: justification for the righteous and condemnation for the wicked (I Kings 8:32; II Chronicles 6:23). I Corinthians 4:3-5 states,

Because with God nothing is impossible . . . . .

For with God nothing shall be impossible. (Lk:1:37, KJV)

So if God is "Bound" by his word why does scripture say "Because with God nothing is impossible?" if nothing is "IMPOSSIBLE" that could not be said if God had to stay within the bounds of his word, he "may" have to go beyond the bounds of his word to achieve the impossible at some point, I mean that is a real simple thing to see.



His word is Himself...You know, sometime back it became Flesh and dwelt among us. Do you believe that it was could have been a variable also?

Why not try reading the Bible for a good understanding of it's message.

 2007/7/5 16:27
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3376
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

Ormly wrote:
Why not try reading the Bible for a good understanding of it's message.



Hey I am still learning, but I really would like to know, how does it feel to know it all? :-P


_________________
Bill

 2007/7/5 16:31Profile









 Re:

Quote:

LoveHim wrote:
dear ormly,

brother this is the second time that you have been asked to please define certain things or terms so we can understand what you mean and you simply won't do so.. why is that?? why will you not simply answer the questions or define the terms so we can understand you better.

please do not think that everyone here who believes in the perseverence of the saints belives the exact same thing concerning doctrine.

why did the author of hebrews quote jeremiah 31:33,34 if this is just for israel and judah. c'mon ormly, there is something more to the equation. did the believers of the old covenant have the Spirit dwelling within them?? i don't believe so.

the believers that james is talking to are acting worldly (much like paul addressed in 1 cor 3). they have envy, lust and wars among them. but james still calls them brethren, hmmm. he is telling them to repent and humble themselves. how is that any different if you or i fall into sin. do we not also need to humble ourselves and repent?? that does not make us losers of our faith (brethren).

if you could please define the terms for us, once again that would help us understand you more..

thanks.





Naah... Ask someone else. I am wearied by your not willing to understand and obfuscation. I have written much you have willfully ignored. It's all there. Re-visit it if you want to know what I believe..

 2007/7/5 16:31









 Re:

Quote:
Hey I am still learning, but I really would like to know, how does it feel to know it all?





I mourn ....grieve at the ignorance that is out there and by leadership that propagates it..

 2007/7/5 16:32









 Re:

Fot those who don't seem to know this, Covenant and Testament are one in the same. New Covenant...New Testament!
Both to Jews and Gentiles, unless there are those who believe only Jews get saved and not Gentiles at all. Did Jesus Christ die for your sin? Do you believe He came in the flesh? Of the seed of David? Shed His Blood for you? Then my friend you are a partaker of the Covanants of Promise. Any other Gospel is accursed! Do you serve a risen Savior? Then my friends, you are serving the Savior of the New Covenant...

Edited...Is the Law of God now written with His firey finger on your heart, or are you still carrying stones around your neck? Was your heart circumcised with the Circumcision of Jesus Christ, Colossians 2 or are do you still have an uncircumcisied heart of stone, unregenerate. your heart is not an organ in your body that pumps to keep you alive, but Romans says....if we believe with our HEART..where is that?


The Gospel is ALL that God has for His Saints, from Justification, Sanctification and right on through to Glorification.

Hebrews 13

20Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,

21Make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, *****through Jesus Christ****; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

WHO GETS THE GLORY????

Love in Christ
Katy-did

 2007/7/5 16:34





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