| Poster | Thread | Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374
| | Re:my web site | |
Thanks sister D ...
When i say "unction of Holy Spirit" i didn't mean the content so much as you're being moved to share it ... i know when i had a website i felt led of our Lord to put it up to share a message i believe He gave me to share, and when i heard Him say take it down i took it down ... But i think i ubderstand what you meant in your post, for my site wasn't out of my experiences in our Lord per se, but more of sharing a direct word i believe our Lord told me to share ...
i'll post no more and just check back when you post some more of your thoughts ...
i bless God for this back and forth, and thank Him that He's clarifying some things for me via you ...
Blessings in our Lord Jesus Christ! ...
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|  2006/4/27 10:50 | Profile | Rahman
Member
Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374
| | Re: Re:Learning to "Rest in the Lord" or "The Waiting Room" experien | |
GraftedBranch you wrote;
"This rest exists in the midst of our tumultious circomstances. It is not the alievation of problems, of hard circomstances, of difficulties, of persecutions, or anything outward."
Amen! ... it's an alleviation of caring about the tulmut, problems, hard circumstances, difficulties, persecutions and more so in my case "expectation of things hoped for that i have not seen" ... Whatever our Lord has in store for me He has in store for me, and He will reveal it in His own good time if in fact there's anything to reveal ... In this i rest, and in the fact that where i was in terms of anxiety i no longer am ...
As i told a fellow saint our Lord's rest is always available to us, so if we don't have it the apparent problem is with us, we're doing something to block it ...
i give Holy Spirit all the credit for teaching me that it's as simple as our choosing to rest/trust in Jesus that He has all concerning our lives well in hand ... All we gotta do is remain calm, hold our peace, and trust Him, especially in situations in which there's nothing we can do but worry and/or fret ...
Blessings in Christ, and thanks for your input!
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| | 2006/4/27 11:03 | Profile | roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: | | Quote:
The Lord's rest is the inward rest we have in Him. He is at rest, His work is finnished, He is ascended and is imparting Himself as rest in those who abide in Him.
GB, I'm going to quizz your mind for a moment - because I don't think you completed your thought.
Can you explain what exactly this REST is that Christ came to give us? What happens in the Inner Sanctuary. What work is completed? And how does it give us rest (in a practical everyday way)
I think you made a big leap to another aspect of rest when in the next phrase you speak of outward circumstances:
Quote:
This rest exists in the midst of our tumultious circomstances.
Do we miss some inward dynamic when we think mainly on the outward?
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2006/4/27 11:15 | Profile | Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374
| | A thirsty pupil ... | |
Sister D and GraftedBranch ...
i'm praying that our Lord will unction a dialog between you two for it seems that you two know something of rest light years beyond my beginners position here ...
i look forward to learning all that He has for me to learn regarding His "rest" ...
May Holy Spirit move on you both in a mighty way!
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| | 2006/4/27 11:52 | Profile | roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: waste, losses | | Quote:
But you say "it's so simple" ... Was it always so simple to you, or did our Lord have to bring you to this simplicity thru much complexity?
That latter, for sure
. much complexity is a good way to put it. It is one thing to know theological truth, and quite another to internalize it into all aspects within our complex mind. It is a constant process.
Quote:
Whatever i've done in my past season whether it proves of unction by our Lord, or myself, i don't concider a waste.
Perhaps our Lord took advantage of what may have been my early misconception to His use,
I think that this is my point exactly. I see no need to get obsessed with navel-gazing, wondering if God willed it or I willed it. I think that part of Gods will is that we exercise free will. And then we learn from that. This is bringing me to a thread I posted, Love God and then do what you want so Ill save some thoughts for there.
Over the last while I have heard so much God-talk, ex: God led me, God called me, God spoke to me, God told me, God wants, God
that I am very turned off. A lot of these people who use this constant God-talk are no better than the ones who dont. And if they are so in tune with God, I wonder, why is their church just like most of the rest quite dead on a whole. Just lately Ive seen some very messed up people use this God-talk as a way to excuse some very stupid decisions they were making. Their God talk seemed to be a way to cover themselves so that they would never have to take ownership of their own problems.
In a sense it feels scary to speak without backing my words with God told me. It can give a sense of authority. Yet, I have also learned that if it is truly from God, others will discern it. Even unchurched can understand truth when it is spoken. Id prefer to make people discover truth themselves, just help them along: ex: What do you think of this thought?
So, if you see me reacting to God-talk youll know why. I want to scream out, No, God did not "make" you do it, YOU chose it, you WANTED to do that, and thats okay. Even if you are messing up in the process, I love you anyway, and so does God. God refines us through it
I have learned that even if God does call me directly into something, I cant assume that conceding means I will succeed.
I have come to realize that In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps. Prov. 16:9 We make a lot of decisions, but Gods bigger purposes rule.
****
Re Waste
Rahman, Trusting that your life and efforts are not a waste is good thinking, I believe. It keeps you at rest and peace.
Yet, I with to hang on to the word, waste and not replace it with everything has a purpose just yet. We need to be honest about our sense of loss, wasted talent, or whatever. We Christians can have a tendency to gloss over pain and anger with fine sounding spiritual ideals to make ourselves feel better: It was all Gods will.
In a sense Christs untimely death was a waste. He had so much too offer so many more miracles, so much more teaching, so much more potential all unused. We see wasteful losses all the time. I cover this idea in the Sabbath Year paragraph on my site the year when crops were to go to waste. It was Gods way of teaching them to trust him, not their crops. We need constant reminders to trust God, not our crops. And crop losses have a great way of doing that.
_________________
Diane
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| | 2006/4/27 12:27 | Profile | Rahman
Member
Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374
| | Re: waste, losses | |
Sister D you wrote;
"It is one thing to know theological truth, and quite another to internalize it into all aspects within our complex mind. It is a constant process."
Amen!
You also wrote;
"I see no need to get obsessed with navel-gazing, wondering if God willed it or I willed it. I think that part of Gods will is that we exercise free will. And then we learn from that. This is bringing me to a thread I posted, Love God and then do what you want so Ill save some thoughts for there."
"Navel gazing", that's funny! ...
You know i know that i have free will, but i also know from experience that my will can not say "no" to God's will if He's determined that there is something that He has for me to do ... i've tried in the past to run from some things i believed i heard our Lord tell me to do, and the result was what i call my "Jonah experience" ... i also know what it's like to have "fire shut up in my bones", when a word is required to be delivered (in my case over 20 years to one pastor) and i decided i just wasn't gonna comply ... i can tell you i got no rest in my spirit until i delivered that word ...
There have been a few things that i believe i've heard God say to me that were easy, like hearing about a future ministry and recieving The Called ... There were other things that required my dealing with folk, primarily having to do with approaching pastors with a "word", that i grew to really dislike doing but did anyhow ... i thank God that whatever that was it's now a past season, and that He's also freed me from hind site navel gazing ... :-?
i saw your thread Love God and then do what you want and just the very phrase caused me consternation ... "Love God" and "do what you want" sounds like the most horrible of oxymorons to me, and instantly reminded me of the scripture "theres a way that appears right unto a man but the end result is death" ... Now "Love God and do what He wants" i find soothing to my spirit, and that's what i try to do ... i've been used of our Lord to counsel a young single brother who holds to your thread title, he says he loves God (and i don't doubt him) but does what he wants and now he has a sexually transmitted disease ...
Sis D you continued;
"Over the last while I have heard so much God-talk, ex: God led me, God called me, God spoke to me, God told me, God wants, God
that I am very turned off.
Yeah, me too - and i'm one of those "God told me" people ... But i'm careful not to through the baby out with the bath water, as i'm also careful not to let my frustration with the majority of the "God told me folk" just make me completely dismiss all of the "God told me folk" ... Generally the "God told me folk" that i get turned off to are the ones that promote "seed for greed" and repeatedly quote that scripture "pick up that phone" that i've not been able to find in my Bible yet ... i also believe that Holy Spirit has gifted me to be able to discern a true "word" from a false, and self serving "word" ... It's been my experience that a true "word" calls ALL the attention to our Lord, our need for purity and holiness before Him, constant repentance, a seeking of His face and feet and not His hands, service to His Body, commision and charity to the poor, and it doesn't cost me any love $$$ to the deliverer of that message ... i can tell you ther's not many words/messages going around like this today ...
i can only use my circumstance as an example, but i was assigned to a church/pastor where "words" of ear ticking promises of material blessings are readily accepted from Balaam's by pastor and the majority of the congrgation alike - but "words" from a few who deliver that God requires the ministerial staff on their faces before Him, a need for calling solemn assembly and seeking revival are patronized, if not outright rejected ... A church reflects what it chooses to listen to ...
Sis D you continued;
In a sense it feels scary to speak without backing my words with God told me. It can give a sense of authority. Yet, I have also learned that if it is truly from God, others will discern it.
Perhaps for some, but i know in my case had i not percieved God telling me to i'd not of said anything ... And yes, as is quite obvious today, if it's truly from God others will discern it ... Alas its the remnant few, and not the majority ...
Sis D you continued;
"Even unchurched can understand truth when it is spoken. Id prefer to make people discover truth themselves, just help them along: ex: What do you think of this thought?
If you mean by un-churched "unsaved" then i don't agree with this at all ... i believe the only reason any of us understand anything about the truth of God is because we're chosen and called to it, and then thre's His determination to finish the good work He started in us in spite of ourselves ... All that i know of our Lord and His truth since my salvation has been wrought via my causing Holy Spirit much grief and pain initially, but then i realize that i'm more like the son who told His Dad "no" but in fit of conscience/conviction went on and did ... i'm learning to prefer being whatever tool God wants me to be in His making someone discover His truth, for i can't make anyone discover anything concirning Him - that's Holy Spirit's job ... i believe i'm called to the prophetic ... i believe that God does not make a move, especially in chastisement, unless He sends warners first ... His Church has been warned, is still being warned of what we're bringing upon ourselves, but it doesn't seem the majority (saved and unsaved) are discovering His truth ...
Sis D you continued;
"So, if you see me reacting to God-talk youll know why. I want to scream out, No, God did not "make" you do it, YOU chose it, you WANTED to do that, and thats okay. Even if you are messing up in the process, I love you anyway, and so does God. God refines us through it
i hear you ... i'm tired of the God talk (as you put it) too ... To be even more honest i'd grown real tired of being an instrument of "God talk" (in the warning sense) ...
That's how i got so wrapped up into the most unrestful "when are you gonna show em Lord?" ... i bless Him that He's freed me from that too!
Sis D you continued;
"I have learned that even if God does call me directly into something, I cant assume that conceding means I will succeed.
Amen ... especially if that calling has to do anything with proclaiming a message of repentance to a rebellious house ... OT history shows us that we should be prepared to fail ...
Sis D you continued;
I have come to realize that In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps. Prov. 16:9 We make a lot of decisions, but Gods bigger purposes rule.
On this point you understand far more than me ... This statement affects me like Rom. 9 ... i'm really not sure how this whole free will/His will thing works, He does and that's all i need to know ... That, and i know that in it all i'm a vessel of mercy ...
Now in regards to your ending statement on "waste" i can digest all that you said except for your statements regarding Christ "untimely" death being a waste ... See i don't think God is capable of doing anything "untimely" for all He does is perfect timing - And His saying on the cross "it is finished" tells me that He'd done all that was necessary to our Father's satisfaction ...
i'm really being blessed by this dialog, and i sure hope you are too sister D! ...
Hey check out this sermon if our Lord leads, i think it has something to say to "Love God then do what You Want" ...
[b][color=0000CC]Heaven is our Rest -
Hebrews 4:1-13[/color][/b]
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonssource&sermonID=3906181537
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| | 2006/4/27 15:25 | Profile | Graftedbranc
Member
Joined: 2005/11/8
Posts: 619
| | Re: | | Quote:
Can you explain what exactly this REST is that Christ came to give us? What happens in the Inner Sanctuary. What work is completed? And how does it give us rest (in a practical everyday way)
Objectively What is completed is the Lord's work on the Cross. On the Cross He solved all our problems, He terminated in Himself the Old Creation, Sin, The Law, Satan (and His dominion) the ordinances, all the distinctions of race, of nationality, of gender, of social status, of everything pertaining to the Old Creation.
And IN resurrection He brought into being the New Creation, In Himself. That is, IN HIm, in His resurrection we are regenerated and partake of Him in resurrection.
Christ haveing solved all the problems of Mankind by terminating them on the Cross, has finished His work, been ressurrected, ascended and sat down on the right Hand of God as a Man.
And now, as our High Priest, and as the Great Shepard of the Sheep is working to bring all His redeemed belivers into the experience of all He has accomplished.
And to do this, He has Imparted Himself as the indwelling Spirit of Christ into all His redeemed, regenerated believers.
His Spirit which indwells us is all inclusive of all Christ is and all Christ has accomplished,
And as we come to Him, call on HIm, and avail ourselves through faith, of His finnished work on the Cross and His resurrection Life, the Spirit within us brings us into the reality of all Christ is and all He has done.
And the result is, through the rich supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, even though our circomstances may be overwhelming, we may be pressed, we may be shaken, we enjoy in the depths of our being the reality of the Peace of Christ, the Joy of Christ, the Rich overcomming Life of Christ so that we can say with Paul, "In all these things we are more than conquerers through Christ" who loved us".
We are tripartite, We have a body, a soul, and a spirit. And when we belive into the Lord Jesus Christ, our dead spirit is regenerated and resurrected from the dead. And Christ indwells our regenerated spirit. And though in our soul, that is our mind, our will, our emotions, we may be experiencing tumultious situations, our inner being which is quickened to Life is at peace. Though we may be shedding tears, yet within our innermost being is a conciousness of the Peace of God. though our circomstances are hard, we are being persecuted, we are experienceing trials, yet by the rich supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ we are able to bear them because in the depths of our being we enjoy the sweet fellowship with Christ, we enjoy Him as our indwelling peace, our indwelling rightousness, our indwelling hope.
We carry this treasure in earthen vessels.
Graftedbranch
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| | 2006/4/27 18:00 | Profile | roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: rest from the need to appease guilt | | Quote:
Christ having solved all the problems of Mankind by terminating them on the Cross, has finished His work
Im going to tweak this thought here - and add to your good thoughts:
The main problem of mankind is specified in scripture: condemnation and separation from God. This problem causes humans to cover up with fig leaves, just like Adam did in order to avoid the unbearable experience of shame when standing naked before God. Remember, before sin, the garden couple was naked and KNEW NO SHAME. Since then, as a result of the fallen condition, we all know shame whether we are aware of it or not.
Shame, along with guilt, is the core root problem of man, and the cause for many of their troubles. It is the core motive behind bad choices man attempts to make fig leaves for himself. This is true for all from the drug addict in the gutter to the high-class executive who is addicted to his status. It is true for the pagan or the religiously upright. Religion along with self-righteousness, rituals, roles is a big fig-leaf and does wonders to cover shame. It is mans attempt to cover up guilt. Religion, along with its legal-minded frame requires a life of laborious work work to appease guilt and shame, to atone for ones own sins.
This is what it means to live in the six working days, and not the Sabbath rest. If you want to see the full-blown effects of this reality, go visit the psych wards. However, you dont have to go there to see its effects in every day life around us. The advertising industry depends on mans shame by offering whatever will dull it like white teeth or a good loan. Much of the work is not outward but happens in our conscience where we work hard to appease it.
Christs atonement gave us rest from all this hard work by letting us off the hook ie forgiving us, giving us a new start, ie a new nature. Through Christ we enter into rest. The work is done. Christ finished it. Our guilt before God is removed.
Diane
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Diane
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| | 2006/4/27 22:53 | Profile | roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: restful thoughts, I hope | | Quote:
You know i know that i have free will, but i also know from experience that my will can not say "no" to God's will if He's determined that there is something that He has for me to do ... i've tried in the past to run from some things i believed i heard our Lord tell me to do, and the result was what i call my "Jonah experience" ... i also know what it's like to have "fire shut up in my bones", when a word is required to be delivered (in my case over 20 years to one pastor) and i decided i just wasn't gonna comply ... i can tell you i got no rest in my spirit until i delivered that word ...
I like Jonah because he really is a picture of our human nature. At least he didnt pretend. He did what he wanted! And that was no deterrent to God. God shaped his will in the fish.
I think God can superimpose his will on ours at times. I've had such experiences. It was like he put words in my mouth that I hadn't even thought of. But God doesn't side step our need to wrestle and grow into good thinking.
How many Christians today are running too, even while they stand in the pulpit or sit in the pew. At least with Jonah, it was obvious thats better than pretending. I think that God himself permits our failures maybe even sets us up, so that we can SEE that we are actually running in the wrong direction. It is a divine act of mercy.
Thanks for mentioning Jonah. He needs to be mentioned on the love God then do what you want thread.
Quote:
i've been used of our Lord to counsel a young single brother who holds to your thread title, he says he loves God (and i don't doubt him) but does what he wants and now he has a sexually transmitted disease ...
This fellow doesnt know what love God means, wouldnt you say? He doesn't KNOW God's love for him, and so he doesn't value and love himself - his own body.
Quote:
... A church reflects what it chooses to listen to ...
This is a good thread topic.
Quote:
Sis D you continued;
"Even unchurched can understand truth when it is spoken.
Rahman said:
If you mean by un-churched "unsaved" then i don't agree with this at all ...
Well, of course, unchurched are blind to a lot of truths, as well as Christians. Yet I have met atheists who have sharp discernment when it comes to some biblical truths even better than those in the church. Truth is truth. It is everywhere, and many can grab on to parts of it here and there.
Quote:
i believe the only reason any of us understand anything about the truth of God is because we're chosen and called to it,
Well, someone once gave me a rather stern rebuke. He said, You Christians think that anyone who is not a Christian is stupid, cant think, cant understand. So you talk down to him like he cant understand anything. The truth is, a lot of those outside the church are very clever and can understand a lot of deep truths. You dont have to keep on talking down to him, or treating him like youre so much better than him.
Quote:
... i'm learning to prefer being whatever tool God wants me to be in His making someone discover His truth, for i can't make anyone discover anything concirning Him - that's Holy Spirit's job ...
This reminds me of how when Jonah was thrown out of the boat the sailors acknowledged God! Some mission work that was! Jonah wasnt exactly a hero. Clearly, God can get his messgae through, even through the failures of his people even because of their failures!
God used Baalam's ass, so there is hope for any of us.
Quote:
i believe i'm called to the prophetic ... i believe that God does not make a move, especially in chastisement, unless He sends warners first ... His Church has been warned, is still being warned of what we're bringing upon ourselves, but it doesn't seem the majority (saved and unsaved) are discovering His truth ...
I think of Isaiah who was called to warn, and was even told they wouldnt listen. So their blood was on their heads. Ive been around that mountain warning a church what God placed in me. Of course it was mocked (who am I anyway). And now I watch the product of disobedience: an impotent church with constant problems. Now they must learn through their failures. It is no time for me to say, I told you so. The Spirit is in charge.
Quote:
i hear you ... i'm tired of the God talk (as you put it) too ... To be even more honest i'd grown real tired of being an instrument of "God talk" (in the warning sense) ...
That's how i got so wrapped up into the most unrestful "when are you gonna show em Lord?" ... i bless Him that He's freed me from that too!
Boy! Can I relate to this. This is the very point where we must learn to rest, to wait on God, to be like Habakkuk and rest in faith in God even though our land is disintegrating.
Quote:
Sis D you continued;
"I have learned that even if God does call me directly into something, I cant assume that conceding means I will succeed.
Amen ... especially if that calling has to do anything with proclaiming a message of repentance to a rebellious house ... OT history shows us that we should be prepared to fail
I include another kind of failure OUR OWN own failures to carry out Gods calling perfectly. Like Jonah, we may, in various ways we still have to deal with stuff in the heart. Or like me tainted with personal issues or weaknesses. The biblical prophets didnt come out perfectly. Moses had the fire burning in his bones when he slew the Egyptian. Joseph had it when he told the dreams to his family (yet God used it all to refine him in prison) David, had his failure time. And on it goes. Im convinced that not all is written about the prophetic formation of our Bible writers.
Quote:
Sis D you continued;
I have come to realize that In his heart a man plans his course, but the Lord determines his steps. Prov. 16:9 We make a lot of decisions, but Gods bigger purposes rule.
On this point you understand far more than me ... This statement affects me like Rom. 9 ... i'm really not sure how this whole free will/His will thing works, He does and that's all i need to know ... That, and i know that in it all i'm a vessel of mercy ...
I think we have to accept the fact that God is far bigger than our minds. That keeps us humble.
Quote:
Now in regards to your ending statement on "waste" i can digest all that you said except for your statements regarding Christ "untimely" death being a waste ... See i don't think God is capable of doing anything "untimely" for all He does is perfect timing
Of course you are right. I am presenting this point through the eyes of natural thinking in order to expose the contrast between Gods purposes and mans assessment of Gods ways.
Quote:
Hey check out this sermon if our Lord leads,
The Lord may lead, but I cant get to it. I think they want my address or something first.
Quote:
Heaven is our Rest -
Hebrews 4:1-13
I had to chuckle when I saw this. I had just that moment set aside a book called, The Saints Rest by Richard Baxter an 1872 printing. Heaven is his theme. Really, heaven is our promised land. We REST in that assurance.
PS I see spiritual truths in color, and Rest needs to be in green not blue symbolized by green pastures, where he makes me lie down
[b][color=006600]Heaven is our Rest -[/color][/b]
Diane
_________________
Diane
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| | 2006/4/28 10:36 | Profile | Rahman
Member
Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374
| | Re: | |
Wow GraftedBranch! ...
Yours is a very profound explanation, and i can hear the voice of our teaching Holy Spirit all throughout what you've posted ... i've copied and printed this to read to a sister who's going thru some turmoil right now ... Praise God for His teaching me concerning His "rest" thru you!
Sis. D ...
i have to say that some of your comments give me serious pause for thought, and then others you just knock outta the park and make me shout "home-run"!!!
You wrote;
"Christs atonement gave us rest from all this hard work by letting us off the hook ie forgiving us, giving us a new start, ie a new nature. Through Christ we enter into rest. The work is done. Christ finished it. Our guilt before God is removed.
Religion along with self-righteousness, rituals, roles is a big fig-leaf and does wonders to cover shame. It is mans attempt to cover up guilt. Religion, along with its legal-minded frame requires a life of laborious work work to appease guilt and shame, to atone for ones own sins.
This is what it means to live in the six working days, and not the Sabbath rest."
i've copied this too to read to my burdened sister ... This "sabbath rest" topic is a new one for me and i've come across two sermons regarding it that i'm saving for last ... It's interesting that at the time of reading yours and Grafted Branch's posts i'd just got finished listening to these two sermons that touch on the same nerve ...
Entering into God's Rest (Pt. 1): Let Us Therefore Fear
Hebrews 4:1-2
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonssource&sermonID=62605173151
Entering into God's Rest (Pt. 2): Let Us Believe the Promise
Hebrews 4:1-13
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonssource&sermonID=7100516156
This "Waiting Room" seems to be becoming more of a "School Room" with each passing day ... Blessed be our Lord Creator Comforter who teaches/leads us into His truth!
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| | 2006/4/28 14:37 | Profile |
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