| Poster | Thread |
| | Re: | | Quote:
Don't they all say basically the same thing?
I wont answer that... I'll let you. Do a side by side comparison between the KJV and any modern version of the following verses, and then you tell me (and this is [b]just[/b] the NT):
(verses omitted completely, or drawn into question in modern version footnotes)
Matt 12:47
Matt 17:21
Matt 18:11
Matt 21:44
Matt 23:14
Mark 7:16
Mark 9:44
Mark 9:46
Mark 11:26
Mark 15:28
Mark 16:9-20
Luke 17:36
Luke 22:43
Luke 22:44
Luke 23:17
Luke 24:12
Luke 24:40
John 5:4
John 7:53 - 8:11
Acts 8:37
Acts 15:34
Acts 24:7
Acts 28:29
Rom. 16:24
2 Cor. 13:14
James 1:8
(verses that are changed from the KJV, or in contradiction to each other among modern versions)
Matt. 1:25
Matt. 5:22
Matt. 5:44
Matt. 6:13
Matt. 6:27
Matt. 6:33
Matt. 8:29
Matt. 9:13
Matt. 11:23
Matt. 12:6
Matt. 12:35
Matt. 12:40
Matt. 12:47
Matt. 13:51
Matt. 15:8
Matt. 16:3
Matt. 16:18
Matt. 16:20
Matt. 17:21
Matt. 18:11
Matt. 18:26
Matt. 19:9
Matt. 19:17
Matt. 19:17
Matt. 20:7
Matt. 20:16
Matt. 20:20
Matt. 20:22
Matt. 21:44
Matt. 23:14
Matt. 23:33
Matt. 24:36
Matt. 24:36
Matt. 25:13
Matt. 27:35
Matt. 27:54
Matt. 28:2
Matt. 28:9
Mark 1:1
Mark 1:2
Mark 1:14
Mark 1:31
Mark 2:17
Mark 3:29
Mark 6:11
Mark 7:8
Mark 7:16
Mark 9:24
Mark 9:44
Mark 9:46
Mark 9:49
Mark 10:21
Mark 10:24
Mark 11:10
Mark 11:26
Mark 12:23
Mark 12:40
Mark 13:6
Mark 13:14
Mark 13:33
Mark 14:68
Mark 15:28
Mark 16:9-20
Luke 1:28
Luke 2:14
Luke 2:22
Luke 2:33
Luke 2:43
Luke 4:4
Luke 4:8
Luke 4:18
Luke 4:41
Luke 6:48
Luke 9:54
Luke 9:55
Luke 9:56
Luke 9:57
Luke 10:15
Luke 11:2
Luke 11:4
Luke 11:29
Luke 16:23
Luke 17:36
Luke 21:4
Luke 21:8
Luke 22:64
Luke 23:17
Luke 23:38
Luke 23:42
Luke 24:6
Luke 24:49
John 1:14, 18
John 1:27
John 3:13
John 3:15
John 3:16
John 3:18
John 4:24
John 4:42
John 5:3
John 5:4
John 5:16
John 5:29
John 6:47
John 6:69
John 7:53-8:11
John 8;9
John 8:47
John 8:59
John 9:4
John 9:35
John 11:41
John 14:2
John 14:16
John 16:16
John 17:12
Acts 1:3
Acts 2:30
Acts 2:31
Acts 2:38
Acts 4:27,30
Acts 7:30
Acts 7:37
Acts 8:37
Acts 9:5
Acts 10:6
Acts 15:11
Acts 15:18
Acts 15:34
Acts 16:31
Acts 17:16
Acts 17:22
Acts 17:22
Acts 17:26
Acts 17:29
Acts 19:35
Acts 20:21
Acts 20:24
Acts 20:25
Acts 23:9
Acts 24:7
Acts 24:14
Acts 24:15
Acts 28:16
Acts 28:29
Romans 1:3
Romans 1:16
Romans 1:18
Romans 1:25
Romans 1:29
Romans 5:8
Romans 6:8
Romans 6:11
Romans 8:1
Romans 9:28
Romans 10:15
Romans 10:17
Romans 11:6
Romans 13:2
Romans 13:9
Romans 14:6
Romans 14:10
Romans 14:21
Romans 14:23
Romans 15:8
Romans 15:19
Romans 15:29
Romans 16:18
Romans 16:24
I Cor. 1:21
I Cor. 1:22
I Cor. 5:4
I Cor. 5:7
I Cor. 6:9
I Cor. 6:20
I Cor. 7:5
I Cor. 7:39
I Cor. 9:1
I Cor. 9:27
I Cor. 9:27
I Cor. 10:28
I Cor. 11:11
I Cor. 11:24
I Cor. 11:29
I Cor. 11:29
I Cor. 14:33
I Cor. 15:47
I Cor. 15:55
I Cor. 16:22
I Cor. 16:23
2 Cor. 2:10
2 Cor. 2:17
2 Cor.4:6
2 Cor. 4:10
2 Cor. 5:17
2 Cor. 5:18
2 Cor.10:5
2 Cor.11:6
2 Cor.11:31
Gal. 2:20
Gal. 3:1
Gal.3:17
Gal. 4:7
Gal. 5:4
Gal. 6:15
Gal. 6:17
Ephesians 1:6
Ephesians 3:9
Ephesians 3:14
Ephesians 5:9
Ephesians 5:30
Philippians 2:6
Philippians 2:7
Philippians 3:8
Philippians 3:16
Philippians 4:13
Colossians 1:2
Colossians 1:14
Colossians 1:28
Colossians 3:6
1 Thess. 1:1
1 Thess. 2:19
1 Thess. 3:11
1 Thess. 3:13
1 Thess. 5:22
2 Thess. 1:8
2 Thess. 1:12
1 Timothy 1:1
1 Timothy 1:17
1 Timothy 2:7
1 Timothy 3:16
1 Timothy 4:12
1 Timothy 5:21
1 Timothy 6:1
1 Timothy 6:5
1 Timothy 6:5
1 Timothy 6:10
1 Timothy 6:19
1 Timothy 6:20
2 Timothy 1:11
2 Timothy 2:15
2 Timothy 3:3
2 Timothy 4:1
2 Timothy 4:22
Hebrews 1:3
Hebrews 2:7
Hebrews 3:1
Hebrews 7:21
Hebrews 10:34
Hebrews 11:11
James 5:16
1 Peter 1:22
1 Peter 2:2
1 Peter 2:2
1 Peter 3:15
1 Peter 4:1
1 Peter 4:14
1 Peter 5:10
1 Peter 5:11
1 Peter 5:14
2 Peter 2:1
2 Peter 2:17
2 Peter 3:9
1 John 1:7
1 John 3:16
1 John 4:3
1 John 4:9
1 John 4:19
1 John 5:7
1 John 5:8
1 John 5:13
1 John 5:13
2 John 1:3
Jude 1:25
Rev. 1:8
Rev. 1:9
Rev. 1:11
Rev. 1:18
Rev. 2:13
Rev. 2:15
Rev. 5:14
Rev. 6:8
Rev. 6:17
Rev. 8:13
Rev. 11:15
Rev. 11:17
Rev. 12:12
Rev. 12:17
Rev. 14:5
Rev. 15:3
Rev. 16:5
Rev. 16:7
Rev. 16:17
Rev. 20:9
Rev. 20:12
Rev. 20:13
Rev. 20:14
Rev. 21:24
Rev. 22:14
Rev. 22:21
Krispy
|
|  2006/3/20 16:38 | | MSeaman
Member
Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan
| | Re: | | I went to Bible Gateway and did a comparison of some verses in the following versions:
KJV
NIV
NASB
NLT
NKJV
even though the other versions note that certain verses were left out in NU (don't know what that is), it seems that the verses said the same thing.
I still believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. I use the KJV, NIV, NKJV in my studies. I don't have a favorite. I just know that I can trust my Bible over any other source. I have faith that God decided which books should be in the KJV when it was written and I will go with that. If I can read the KJV and the others and they contain the same basic intent, I am not being misled.
_________________
Melissa
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| | 2006/3/20 16:54 | Profile |
| | Re: | | Quote:
I still believe the Bible is the inerrant Word of God. I use the KJV, NIV, NKJV in my studies. I don't have a favorite. I just know that I can trust my Bible over any other source. I have faith that God decided which books should be in the KJV when it was written and I will go with that. If I can read the KJV and the others and they contain the same basic intent, I am not being misled.
So... in other words, you're not sure.
This sounds like a new thought that you havent considered before. I recommend you look into this whole issue and see what you turn up.
I used to be a huge supporter of the NIV, NASV, etc... but based upon my own personal study of this issue I have rejected modern versions.
Krispy |
| | 2006/3/20 17:04 | | roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: God saves thru the OT. | |
I said:
I know someone who was saved through reading the Old Testament.
J-bird asked:
Quote:
Did they already have an established understanding of the gospel?
Aparently not. I don't know much about the story, just this fact.
It shouldn't be a surprise. Much of the NT is the OT repeated.
Diane
_________________
Diane
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| | 2006/3/20 17:06 | Profile | MSeaman
Member
Joined: 2005/4/19
Posts: 772
Michigan
| | Re: | | quote]
So... in other words, you're not sure.
This sounds like a new thought that you havent considered before. I recommend you look into this whole issue and see what you turn up.
I used to be a huge supporter of the NIV, NASV, etc... but based upon my own personal study of this issue I have rejected modern versions.
Krispy
What makes me uncomfortable, is that I deal with unbelievers on a daily basis who question the authority of the Bible. I KNOW that when I pick up my Bible, be it KJV, NKJV or NIV, God is going to speak to me. If I cannot be sure of God's Word, how can I be sure of anything? Can I even trust in my Salvation? How do I know I won't be reincarnated? How do I know that Jesus is God's Son? Why do I pray or study the Bible, if it isn't God's Word? How can I say, this is my Bible, I believe it, but only this version? That just seems to prove what the unbelievers think to be true.
_________________
Melissa
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| | 2006/3/20 17:15 | Profile | roadsign
Member
Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777
| | Re: perverting Biblical words | | Quote:
Say I release plans for a house to be build. I've sealed it and sent it out. Some contractor takes it upon himself to alter the drawings without my knowledge... then the drawings have been perverted. Right?
Krispy, are you a lawyer? You seem to think from a legal perspective. (not a criticism)
Yes, you express a very legitimite concern! I happen to see the perverting of Biblical truths on a far grander scale than you do - far in excess to what the worst tranlators have ever done.
For example: Think of the word: "Worship". What comes to your mind? Is it praise songs, guitars etc in a church service. Well, if so, then you have perverted the meaning of the word. Many have done that.
Now think of the first three commands, and then think of "worship" again. One worships whatever he trusts in - could be anything. You even could worship your "worship" ie religious experience. However, God wants us to trust in him and place him above all else. That is worship - incorporates our entire lives. If you worship God only patly, then the other part you are not worshipping God, and you are worshiping something else (job, money, etc) and that is idolatry.
Now take the word, "love". That one has been perverted so grossly that we would be better to use another word, like: care, empathy, etc.
Now, we cannot blame translators for the perversion of that word, "worship" or "love". Can't you see a diabolic force here, not just creating an innocent misconception of the word. God's word is twisted in people's minds in order to keep them from truly obeying God.
I could create a huge list of common Biblical terms and then show how through common and sloppy use they have become perverted IN PEOPLE'S MINDS - to the point of even destroying the true meaning of of God's God News.
We all have perversion to some degree. That's why we need the Sprit.
Re biblical perversions: God outsmarted even the devil. For example, even without using the word "love" at all, Jesus taught us the meaning of love by examples: like the Good Samaritan, foot washing etc etc.
It is the same for the word "worship". Worship of God is modelled in many accounts in the Bible. So is worship of idols. (would be a good study)
So, even the purest translation is limited by the limitations of the reader. ... but not the Holy Spirit who alone can enlighten true meaning of God's word.
I fully trust that God has revealed himself and his will through the Bible - even today, and I fully trust it as the guide for my life.
Diane
_________________
Diane
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| | 2006/3/20 17:45 | Profile | KingJimmy
Member
Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | Quote:
This is not a fact. You learned this from whatever college professors you have sat under, but there is plenty of evidence refuting exactly what you have said. Dean John Burgon, for starters.
And how is that you can proove there are no greek manuscripts that do not have error?
This is fact. We have no single manuscript that agrees with any other manuscript. All of them have typo's/mispellings. It's not a single college professor. You can look up it in any technical Greek aparatus which compares the manuscripts. You can look it up in any introduction to textual criticism text book. This is fact.
The fact of the matter is you have no way of knowing anything because you don't even know the greek alphabet. I HAVE SEEN THE DIFFERENCES WITH MY OWN EYES and there are plenty of works out there that document all the differences in all the manuscripts.
_________________
Jimmy H
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| | 2006/3/20 17:58 | Profile | KingJimmy
Member
Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | Quote:
I wont answer that... I'll let you. Do a side by side comparison between the KJV and any modern version of the following verses, and then you tell me (and this is just the NT):
You should not fail to mention the hundreds of differences in the TR manuscripts.
Will the real TR please stand up?
_________________
Jimmy H
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| | 2006/3/20 18:02 | Profile | KingJimmy
Member
Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC
| | Re: | | Not to sound spamish, but for everybody's benefit, here is a quote from the following site:
http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/textof.htm
Quote:
The differences between the various editions of the Textus Receptus have been carefully listed by Scrivener (1884) [Authorized Edition of the English Bible, pp. 56-60,242-63] and Hoskier (1890) [A Full Account and Collation of the Greek Cursive Codex Evangelium 604, by H.C. Hoskier, London: David Nutt, 1890, Appendices B & C]. The following are some of the most important of these differences.
Luke 2:22
"their purification" -- Erasmus, Stephanus, majority of the Greek manuscripts.
"her purification" -- Beza, King James, Elzevir, Complutensian, 76 and a few other Greek minuscule manuscripts, Latin Vulgate (?).
Luke 17:36
"two men shall be in the field: the one shall be taken and the other left" -- Erasmus, Stephanus 1 2 3 omit this verse with the majority of the Greek manuscripts. Stephanus 4, Beza, King James, Elzevir have it with D, Latin Vulgate, Peshitta, Old Syriac.
John 1:28
"Bethabara beyond Jordan" -- Erasmus, Stephanus 3 4, Beza, King James, Elzevir, Pi 1 13, Old Syriac, Sahidic.
"Bethany beyond Jordan" -- Stephanus 1 2, majority of Greek manuscripts including Pap 66 & 75 Aleph A B, Latin Vulgate.
John 16:33
"shall have tribulation" -- Beza, King James, Elzevir, D 69 many other Greek manuscripts, Old Latin, Latin Vulgate.
"have tribulation" -- Erasmus, Stephanus, majority of Greek manuscripts.
Rom. 8:11
"by His Spirit that dwelleth in you" -- Beza, King James, Elzevir, Aleph A C, Coptic.
"because of His Spirit that dwelleth in you" -- Erasmus, Stephanus, majority of Greek manuscripts including BD, Peshitta, Latin Vulgate.
Rom. 12:11
"serving the Lord" -- Erasmus 1, Beza, King James, Elzevir, majority of Greek manuscripts including Pap 46 Aleph A B, Peshitta, Latin Vulgate.
"serving the time" -- Erasmus 2345, Stephanus, D G.
1 Tim. 1:4
"godly edifying" -- Erasmus, Beza, King James, Elzevir, D, Peshitta, Latin Vulgate.
"dispensation of God" -- Stephanus, majority of Greek manuscripts including Aleph A G.
Heb. 9:1
Here Stephanus reads "first tabernacle," with the majority of the Greek manuscripts. Erasmus, Beza, Luther, Calvin omit "tabernacle" with Pap 46 Aleph B D, Peshitta, Latin Vulgate. The King James Version omits "tabernacle" and regards "covenant" as implied.
James 2:18
"without thy works" -- Calvin, Beza (last 3 editions), King James Aleph A B, Latin Vulgate.
"by thy works" -- Erasmus, Stephanus, Beza 1565, majority of Greek manuscripts.
_________________
Jimmy H
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| | 2006/3/20 18:11 | Profile | IRONMAN
Member
Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS
| | what the?!?!? | | bro Krispy
Quote:
What does that mean?
Think about this, if I go to court and testify to an event, and I tell the absolute truth about an event... is it only true if the Judge has a revelation that what I say is true? So if the Judge decides that I am lying when I am telling the truth... does that make what I said any less the truth?
There is a hell. The fact that many people (even so-called Christians) dont believe in it doesnt change that truth. It's still the truth.
you know exactly what i mean. your arguement citing the court case and comparing that truth you speak in court and the truth of the scriptures is like comparing apples to oranges, one is spiritual and requires a spiritual approach and the other a worldly matter.
bro you know i love you much and we disagree on this so unless the Lord burdens me further i won't argue this with you. well we have many times over anyway :-P
God bless you bro
_________________
Farai Bamu
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| | 2006/3/20 20:50 | Profile |
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