These last two replies are a good indication of the current lack of basic understanding on the difference between the Old Covenant and the new. As for Saul, well as most will know, Saul was a result of the people wanting a king...................Frank

bro Frank
it's not really about choosing the lesser of 2 evils , it's about doing whatever the Lord asks and after seeking the Lord on my vote He showed me what i should have done. i have no idea what He was going to do with that vote but for me it;s an issue of obedience to whatever it is God would have me do whether it seems right to me or not.

The earth belongs to God in all it's entirety and He will use whatever means to affect His will whether it is putting people out or into offices of political power. really i was like you, didn't think it was necessary to vote coz it seemed like the last thing the Lord would use to have His way. it seems weird and i think everyone should seek the Lord on it and if the Lord says not to vote, then don't if He says to then vote for whoever He says to. yeah it's weird but i guess Jeremiah thought the same thing when he had to wear that yoke for a while.

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Farai Bamu

Brother Frank wrote:

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Jeff Marshalek

Br Frank,

24 And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, 25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.

I just want to encourage you to continue to "stir up love and good works." To stir up can be translated "to incite to riot." This God calls us to do as a part of authentic fellowship. There are few who risk everything for the glory that is in Christ Jesus. God has given you the words, stir us up!

In Christ
Jeff

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Jeff Marshalek

Thanks Jeff, I appreciate the encouragement. Beleive me, these kinds of words are not always popular,especially in the Bible belt(I live in Kansas)but you have to go as you are led. Its time for Christians to wake up and throw of the lethargy and think for themselves. The rest of society may be being dummed down, but let us not join them, running after politicians and 20 second sound bites, without thinking the issues through in the light of the Gospel. Both political parties spent roughly five hundred million dollors each on negative ads and character assasinations. You would think that would be enough to make us shy away from the "cess pit." Yet, incredibly, we have a president that claims to be a Christian which should have guaranteed the cleanest political race ever run, at least from the Republicn side, but sadly it was the opposite. What does that tell us about people who claim to be Christians?Should we listen to their words or should their actions speak louder. Augustine said "preach the Gospel at all times, and if you must, speak." If these guys did not tell us they were Christians and that they prayed, would any of us know that they were, simply by what they did ?......................Frank

Well, are you guys done patting yourselves on the back for your non-spiritual debates? Frank, you are every bit as political by your supposedly non-political views as the ones you find it so easy to ridicule. Why don't you guys spend your time on something that is edifying instead? If I judged you with the same judgment you judge the presidents Christianity, I would think just as little of you guys. It's is sometimes hard for me to think you guys know the Lord.

In Christ,
GaryE

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Gary Eckenroth

Hi Gary
"We will know them by their fruit." You have every right to judge a brother or sister in Christ. When Paul warns us of the peddlers of the Gospel and Peter warns us of the false prophets, is that a good thing or a bad thing? With much responsibility comes a greater accountability.

Let me ask you Gary, was it ok for Jimmy Swaggart to go with a prostitute? Should we as Christians say nothing as he crucified Christ afresh? The Christian community has thrown their lot in with the president therefore his actions as a professor of the faith reflect on all of us. Was Paul right to publickly call Peter to account claiming he was a hypocrite? Isnt it awesome the way Peter reacted?

Last point Gary, if you knew me as a brother you would be entitled to judge me if you saw me in error. This is just one post of many, hopefully you will find the others edifying :) In the beauty of Holiness....Frank

PS. How do you critizise the vast majority of Christian leaders who are up to their necks in politics without mentioning it?

{Quote} Appolus

Let me ask you Gary, was it ok for Jimmy Swaggart to go with a prostitute? Should we as Christians say nothing as he crucified Christ afresh?
………………………………………………………………………………………………

Did you ever think that maybe Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, or others who have fallen have asked the Lord for forgiveness and the Lord forgave them?

So, this is your right and every unbelievers right to bring up what the Lord has forgiven. I have been under the impression that I was to give up my rights when I became a Christian. In fact, I don’t think I have any rights now as a Christian. Get over it. It has been years since these men have committed these sins and your just doing what the unbelievers do by continuing to bring these things up. Besides, maybe the one who is crucifying Christ afresh is the Christian {like many discernment ministries} who criticize the body of Christ. Maybe those who bring these things out in the open are the ones who crucify Christ afresh.

Love covers a multitude of sin. Yea, I know, you do these things out of love. I don’t buy it. The same light that has revealed this hypocritical spirit in myself shows me the darkness of this same critical spirit in others. It’s nothing but being a pulling of tares. I’m not suppose to do it and neither are you.

Frank, for you to write a political piece and in the piece say it’s wrong to be political is very hypocritical on your part. You are a good writer, why waste your time doing what you think others shouldn’t do. Why not spend you time writing that which will edify the body instead of tearing the body down? As Paul said, “Think on these things.”

I don’t plan on posting any more on this thread.

In Christ,
GaryE

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Gary Eckenroth

Hi Gary
As is probably apparent to most, I used Jimmy Swaggart as an example, not because I am "not over it." I agree very much about love, and since I discern an argumenttitive spirit, lets just agree to disagree. You have your opinion, which you are entitiled to, but there is not fruit in this conversation, it is certainly not iron sharpening iron, just seems to be a lot of anger.
In the beauty of Holiness...........Frank
(Last post from me to Gary)

Brother Gary,

President Bush says he is a Christian, fine. But what does that mean in a sea of non Christians that surround him in this form of government called a democracy?

I believe this Scripture describes democracy and how God views man's kingdoms.

41 Whereas you saw the feet and toes, partly of potter’s clay and partly of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; yet the strength of the iron shall be in it, just as you saw the iron mixed with ceramic clay. 42 And as the toes of the feet were partly of iron and partly of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly fragile. 43 As you saw iron mixed with ceramic clay, they will mingle with the seed of men; but they will not adhere to one another, just as iron does not mix with clay. 44 And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever. 45 Inasmuch as you saw that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it broke in pieces the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver, and the gold—the great God has made known to the king what will come to pass after this. The dream is certain, and its interpretation is sure.”

Christ will destroy the clay and iron kingdoms of men. There is no hope for this form of government. Yet in the end times, many will believe in the religion of humanism and its promise to deliver man from suffering. Democracy as it stand today is being promoted as the means by which we will experience peace and prosperity.

What do you see? What do you hear?

In Christ
Jeff

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Jeff Marshalek