| Poster | Thread | MrBillPro
Member
Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3422
Texas
| | Re: | | The God I know works through man also so that would include Doctors. ;-)
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Bill
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|  2005/11/20 21:53 | Profile | shibu
Member
Joined: 2003/9/13
Posts: 230
Goa, India
| | Re: Please give others freedom | | Quote:
I have a dogmatic position but rather a flexible one, which is not my will but thy will be done. Sometimes when He has told us to wait, then it can be quite painful but the question I ask myself is whether I am obedient or not?
habakkuk, you got a good balance based on your personal conviction before the Lord. Since dorcas's father was a missionary doctor and as a mother, she shared her balanced experience from her personal perspective. To me both of them compliment each other.
What troubles me, is that, when you push your personal conviction between you and God as a doctrine and dump it on others. It lead people into bondage and legalism.
Quote:
Amen! My pastor broke his foot (we think) and the Lord told him not to go to the doctor. It has been a time of miracles and God's provision because he was willing to step into what God told him to.
I strongly believe that, there are many things which the Lord will tell us in our walk with the Lord, like, in the case of hababkkuk's pastor, God told him to wait on Him for healing. That is absolutely fine. But in India some of the groups in Christendom (people call them as Pentecostal) teach this as a doctrine. They teach believers that, if you take medicine, you are sinning against the Lord and you are a second class believer. If you go to their meetings, the message will invariably revolve around this theme only. Sadly those who preach this sort (not all) are leading a defeated Christian life (Those don't know how to speak kindly to their spouse, love of money, eyes which are full of lust, not able to get along, fighting for position and ministry in the church, proud and arrogant etc.).
Hebrews 11:29 "By faith they passed through the Red Sea as by dry land, whereas the Egyptians, attempting to do so, were drowned." Israel had a word from the Lord, therefore they could cross the Red Sea by faith, whereas the Egyptians, tried to imitate, were drowned. This is what exactly happening to many believers, who try to imitate others without a word from the Lord and faith. Finally they destroy themselves and bring dishonor to God's name. That is why Paul exhorted Roman believers by saying " to everyone who is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think soberly, as God has dealt to each one a measure of faith (Romans 12:3).
Therefore I have decided, I will not push my personal conviction between me and my God (Things which are not mentioned in bible, as commandments or principles) to others, leave alone others, not even to my wife and kids.
I don't consider a believer who take medicine as inferior or one who don't take as superior. But I do consider a believer as great, when he/she exercises his/her faith in God through Lord Jesus to overcome his/her lusts (giants) in the flesh, the world and satan. One who is humble, sacrificial, broken, merciful and becoming more like his master.
God has given to us exceedingly great and precious promises, that through these you may be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust (2 Peter 1:4). For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the worldour faith (1 John 5:4). 1 Peter 1:9 says, receiving the end of your faiththe salvation of your souls.
In Him,
Shibu
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Shibu Clement
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| | 2005/11/22 2:12 | Profile | habakkuk3
Member
Joined: 2005/10/18
Posts: 490
Virginia
| | Re: | | Quote:
What troubles me, is that, when you push your personal conviction between you and God as a doctrine and dump it on others. It lead people into bondage and legalism.
I apologize that if I've dumped a particular belief on you here. I was somewhat confused by this paragraph in light of the other things you had said.
It's up to us to obey the Lord and press into Him to find out what He wants us to do and then to do it. I have seen God use doctors, so if I've mistakenly implied otherwise please forgive me.
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Ed Pugh
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| | 2005/11/22 4:41 | Profile | shibu
Member
Joined: 2003/9/13
Posts: 230
Goa, India
| | Re: majored on minor things | | Hi habakkuk3,
There is no need for apologizing, we learn from each other. I may be weak in one area, there you may be strong and it can be vice-versa too. In true fellowship, we will compliment each other. From your comments what impressed in my spirit is a portion from Jeremiah 17:7-8 "Blessed is the man who trusts in the LORD, and whose hope is the LORD. For he shall be like a tree planted by the waters, which spreads out its roots by the river, and will not fear when heat comes; but its leaf will be green, and will not be anxious in the year of drought, nor will cease from yielding fruit."
What I wrote was based on my experience in India among Pentecostal believers (I will not include all because some of them are really godly and sacrificial). Most of them think that, true characteristics of a man of God is "one who will not take medicine." Often such man of God release all their faith (this include fasting and prayer) in that direction only. And they encourage their followers to imitate them, often that leads to guilty conscience and bondage. They are trying to do something which the Lord never asked them. Same people can't believe that Lord Jesus can save them from the power of sin and world (Matthew 1:21 and Galatians 1:4). Their ministry always lead people into old covenant. Old covenant focus mainly on earthly blessings and earthly kingdom. That include health, wealth and fame. How many of them consider bitterness in their heart is worser than having leprosy or AIDS. If they do, how much they would have sought God with fasting and prayer. But for earthly blessings they don't mind seeking God with fasting and prayer.
Lord Jesus came with better covenant and better promises. That include spiritual kingdom and spiritual blessings. God wants His people under new covenant to exercise their faith for things which got eternal values. This doesn't mean we shouldn't seek God for healing, far from it. Whenever I am sick or my loved ones, I always seek God for His touch. The point I want to make is, this is minor compared to major things, which God has promised to His people under grace through Lord Jesus Christ. Some of the major things are conforming into the image of Christ, revelation from God's word, anointing of the Holy Spirit, entering into God's rest, overcoming conscious sin, getting detached from world's power, and able to share the burden and agony of the Lord etc.
Whenever we pray for sick people, we pray with faith, believing, prayer of a righteous man avails much. At the same time, we don't ask them to stop medication or not to consult doctors. Rather we teach them to search their heart to see any conscious and unconfessed sin in their lives especially unforgiving and bitter spirit. If they have a clear conscience towards God and man, then, we encourage them to believe steadfastly without wavering in a loving father who will never do any harm to His beloved children (Jeremiah 29:11, Romans 8:28, Isaiah 43:1-3).
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Please read the testimony David Wilkerson (appended), I consider this as genuine unwavering faith in God though he needed to visit the hospital for many times.
My wife, Gwen, is now recovering from a knee replacement her twenty-first operation (five for cancer). She told me this was the most painful operation of all. She is recovering well and will soon be able to travel with me to ministers' conferences around the world.
The Lord has seen us through deep waters of affliction over the past years. Both of our daughters, Debbie and Bonnie, are also cancer survivors. God has graciously delivered Gwen from a cloud of guilt she carried for a long time, thinking she had "passed on cancer" to them. Doctors called it a cancer cluster. Today, Gwen, Debbie and Bonnie are all doing well. God be praised.
Two years ago, our twelve-year-old granddaughter, Tiffany, died of brain cancer. This was especially difficult for Gwen, who had to fight off the same old accusations from Satan that Tiffany's cancer was also hereditary. The Holy Spirit has been so faithful to comfort and heal the hurt. We know God always does what is best for all concerned.
As I look back over fifty years of ministry, I recall innumerable tests, trials and times of crushing pain. But through it all, the Lord has proven faithful, loving, and totally true to all his promises.
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In Him,
Shibu
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Shibu Clement
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| | 2005/11/22 7:36 | Profile |
| | Re: No medicine just faith | | Quote:
Lord Jesus came with better covenant and better promises. That include spiritual kingdom and spiritual blessings. God wants His people under new covenant to exercise their faith for things which got eternal values. This doesn't mean we shouldn't seek God for healing, far from it. Whenever I am sick or my loved ones, I always seek God for His touch. The point I want to make is, this is minor compared to major things, which God has promised to His people under grace through Lord Jesus Christ. Some of the major things are conforming into the image of Christ, revelation from God's word, anointing of the Holy Spirit, entering into God's rest, overcoming conscious sin, getting detached from world's power, and able to share the burden and agony of the Lord etc.
Brother shibu,
Thank you for all you have shared in these last two posts. I am fed. Amen. |
| | 2005/11/22 8:09 | |
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