Santa Clara, CA
| Re: Great thread|
This is truly turning into just a wonderful thread, what an enjoyment to read all these different experiences.
It was a long drawn out, going... going... gone! but I regard the whole 'process' as 'One Baptism'.
Now let's see what the theologians on SI make of that
Don't know about theolog's but I could only say, Amen!
And so the variety within the similarities. Would be closer to Ed here I think in 'experience' on the one hand but more closer to you Ron on the other as that seems the course thus far. There was 'the night' when I cried out to the Lord in the pit of sin that I was in, so utterly ashamed and ugly and knowing that He had been drawing me for so long and... in that repentance the sense of His overwhelming...love, that just warmed the inside of me as if it filled every pore and I do mean physically as well as, emotionally, spiritually... It was incredible and I cried mixed tears of joy and sorrow, I felt forgiven as much as afraid in knowing or at least what my faulty understanding had of Christianity that I was soon to loose everything or would become this strange outcast... well, actually all that happened! :-P But I just had know idea what was really true about this life.
The stranger part would be that nothing changed right away while everything was set in motion from then on out. It would be likely close to 2 years before I began even reading the scriptures and then began getting caught up in all the word-of-faith type things. There were changes along the way but ever so incremental. It wasn't until much later that I was able to look back and realize what had transpired on 'that night'. Have no recollection of the day nor even the month really, but I can look out my patio door right now up to the room of that apartment not 30 feet away and remember precisely how that all happened.
I have no idea if this would be considered being baptized in the Holy Spirit nor would I even find it anywhere close to thinking I was 'saved' then as I continued on doing pretty much all the sinful activities that I was involved in... The difference was, a battle begun brewing inwardly, the same things were now met with more than just the usual 'Catholic guilt' associations in increasing frequency and one by one they began to fall over the ensuing years. Some fell quite quickly and others were a raging duel of rebellion of the flesh and the working of the Holy Spirit. Dark, dark nights of the soul, more than a few times I really thought I was going insane from confusion over both the inward dealings and the mixed up sentiments of where I had found myself doctrinally, the problems of such a mixed bag of truth, half-truth and flat out lies that had to be unraveled.
But the beauty here is in hearing all these different was the Lord has worked and given different gifts at different times for different reasons perhaps, to all of us and that no one is trying to put everything into a neat box that says 'must' while still not going beyond the parameters He has set. It's just as much a wonder and perfectly content that if He was never to grant any particular gift, such as tongues or healing or what have you it wouldn't faze me in the least. Yet with that knowing the possibilities that at any given time if He so choose He could open these foolish lips to speak wonders of His Praise in an unknown tongue is just as wonderful.
Here is something that also I have found on just a few occasions that is in a more pronounced sense and difficult to express but would likely be closer to what KingJimmy spoke of;
[i]If all Jesus Christ came to do was to upset me, make me unfit for my work, upset my friendships and my life, produce disturbance and misery and distress, then I wish He had never come. But that is not all He came to do. He came to lift us up to the heavenly places where He is Himself. The whole claim of the Redemption of Jesus is that He can satisfy the last aching abyss of the human soul, not hereafter only, but here and now. Satisfaction does not mean stagnation, it means the knowledge that we have the right type of life for our souls. The hymn has it rightly, Oh, the peace my Saviour gives! [b]That peace is the deepest thing a human personality can know, it is almighty[/b]. The Apostle Paul emphasises the hilarity of lifeBe not drunk with wine, . . . but be filled with the Spirit. Enthusiasm is the idea, intoxicated with the life of God. The healthy pagan and the healthy saint are the ones described in Gods Book as hilarious; all in between are diseased and more or less sick. We have no business to be sick unless it is just a preparatory stage towards something better, when God is nursing us through some spiritual illness; but if it is the main characteristic of the life there is something wrong.[/i]
Chambers, O. The servant as His Lord.
As was mentioned, this "Complete Works of Oswald Chambers", I just couldn't say enough... It is a lofty tome, big as a phone book. I gave it to myself as almost the lone gift for Christmas last year and last year was tough around that time at home. It is an amazing treasure of thought, Oswald has such an incredible grasp and seemingly different approach, so much that just grips and is thought provoking, challenging in the right way. He is as practical as he is forthright and honest, brutally honest. Things that can make one think "You know, I wondered about that, I had those suspicions as well" about what might really be going on in the heart, what the Lord is after, what the devil is really up to.
Sorry for the digression and the rambling, this is really a wonderful expression here from everyone.
| 2005/10/28 1:23||Profile|
| Re: baptism in the Holy Spirit|
Hi all, been reading through this thread and felt to contribute my testimony.I don't want to multiply words cos that in itself can only lead to more confusion...but yes, the baptism in the Holy Spirit is a separate experience from salvation.
The first time I saw people filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues, was during a revival that broke out in my high school, during which time I was saved.There was no formal teaching that I remember on the experience...God just poured out on the hungry and those who were ready to receive this in-filling...it was awesome!
It wasn't until about 8 months later that I was reading a book called The Holy Spirit and you by John and Rita Bennet,that I had any 'teaching' on it.I read this as well as my bible, and came to the conclusion one night in my bedroom, that if God had this experience for all His children, then I wanted it too.How could I say no to what He wanted to give me?
So, I prayed the prayer at the end of a chapter in the book, then waited.Wasn't too sure what I was waiting for. He spoke within me and asked me to pray outloud as I usually would.So, I began to pray in english,worshipping Him and before I knew what was happening, the words I was speaking weren't english anymore!! They were tongues as given by the Holy Spirit...I couldn't believe it, it was lovely and you just knew you were speaking to God! I actually opened my eyes and went to look in the mirror to confirm that this language was coming out of me...such joy, such closeness to Him!
Since then(8 and a half yrs ago), I have found my relationship with Christ deepen and grow.I love Him.The bible became soooo alive to me...worship was so living and real...life changed and is changing-praise His name! Not to mention the effect on prayer!
Well children of God...be encouraged...I pray God gives His peace to all who have such confusion regarding this topic.His Word is truth...Trust Him,seek Him...He is ALL you need.
| 2005/10/28 6:08||Profile|
New England USA
| Re: baptism of the spirit|
Thank you for all of your responses and testimonies! After I posted this thread yesterday I went to my friend's house for coffee. She recently discovered her husband's infedelilty. On the way over I prayed that HE would fill me and use me. As I sat at her kitchen table and ministered to her, I was also ministering to myself. I knew that the words and the wisdom that I was speaking were not from me. I could feel Jesus shining on my face. I would say something and think "wow this is good stuff." When I was leaviing she thanked me for "uplifting her." But I could only give glory to Jesus. I knew that the words I spoke were dirrectly from the heart of God. Outside of Him I have nothing to offer anyone.
I share this so you can see my heart and where I am coming from. This is an example of how God uses me. It's like an exchange process. The more I surrender to Him, the more He fills me with His spirit. I have no doubt that I have a messure of the Holy Spirit, but can not think of one specific time when I may have been baptised.
I have completely surrendered my will to Him. It's a scary thing. Sort of like when you first give your heart to Him...you think "what will I become, I won't be me," but once you receive Him in your heart, you relize it's the best thing that's ever happened to you! I think that's maybe what being bapisted in the spirit is like.
Hopefully my next thread will be "How I became baptised in the Spirit." I'd love to share that with all of you when it happens.
In HIS Love, Tina
| 2005/10/28 10:20||Profile|
This subject is an interesting one, but it seems that there is a common theme, while there is not a perfect outline that I can see. Many such as Duncan Campbell and DL Moody describe definate experiences, while Billy Sunday and John Wesley never had a direct claim of a baptism of the Holy Ghost (correct me if I am wrong, but please site your source). So it seems that some may be filled and not know it, or they were not filled, but surely on fire for God. I have leaned toward the fact that the Spirit visits those who just kind of surrender, simply give up, to the Spirit. Some may do mighty works for God, but not mighty works of God, by doing them in the flesh, like the Ephesian church in Revelation.
It is one of those subjects that will suredly be a joy to know that truth of once we are in heaven. I think that we have access to these truths, but I don't think we are willing to pay the price, in general. Plus we tend to get (I know I do) puffed up as God gives us more knowledge.
I would love to hear more testimonies. Some of the subtleties of the stories really are interesting. I have thought about writing a book on the doctrine of the Holy Ghost. Maybe present all the sides and then my own personal case based on Scripture, as well as past men and women of God who had experiences of the Holy Ghost that were not fly-by-night Christians.
| 2005/10/28 20:12||Profile|