Yeah its like in 1 John, all the warnings against walking in habitual sin. Its a good reminer to know that habitual sin can be lying, stealing, drugs, or something sexual, and they are all the same - habitual. Which I guess changes my outlook on people, not as a drug addict, but as simply someone bound by the power of sin - just like a habitual liar.

I just had a realisation moment! Thanks grannie!
God bless :-)

_________________
Coops

I don't see this sin we're discussing today as any different then those grouped together below, so no one is above anyone here... it's just finding the right way out for all, that I think is important.

I think the biggest mistake the Church has made is to redefine "fornication" as JUST pre-marital sex.

The word porneia is where we get our word "Pornography" from.

It's true definition is 1) illicit sexual intercourse
1a) adultery, fornication, homosexuality, lesbianism, intercourse with animals [b]etc.[/b]
1b) sexual intercourse with close relatives; Lev. 18
1c) sexual intercourse with a divorced man or woman; Mar_10:11,Mar_10:12
2) metaphorically the worship of idols
2a) of the defilement of idolatry, as incurred by eating the sacrifices offered to idols.


Whenever we engage in any sex act .... even if it is masturbation, "where" are the person's thoughts, before, during and after such events ?
Even married people can commit fornication or adultry with their own spouse, if their "thought life" has not come under His Word.

All sin is based on "self love" (the "I deserve" mentality), and fornication - regardless of what form it takes - is listed with all other sins below and we are just told to STOP.

No other word is given by our Lord in regards to these sins. Just, 'don't'.

If we begin to feel that we are more "merciful" than God, in our treatment of sin, then we border on the fault of the Church at Corinth. (chpt 5).

Their "grace" had become too lenient.


I'm not a "Legalist" .... I just believe from my own "extreme conversion" from "what I was" ... that we should never go 'beyond what is written'.

"How" do any of us stop "anything" that we're guilty of ?

By... [b]2Co 10:5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity [u]every thought[/u] to the obedience of Christ and Gal. 5:16 below.[/b]


Billy, if you would, please copy these verses, because they are the ones from the Bible that speak to what you are asking.

With my prayers and His Love also.

Annie



[b]Act 15:19 Therefore my judgment is that we do not trouble those who have turned to God from among the nations,
Act 15:20 but that we write to them that they should abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

Act 15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us to lay on you no greater burden than these necessary things:
Act 15:29 that you abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication; from which, if you keep yourselves, you shall do well. Be prospered.


Act 21:25 And as to the nations who believe, we joined in writing, judging them to observe no such things, except only that they keep themselves from both idol sacrifice, and blood, and a thing strangled, and from fornication.


Rom 1:29 being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; being full of envy, murder, quarrels, deceit, evil habits, becoming whisperers,
Rom 1:30 backbiters, haters of God, insolent, proud, braggarts, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 undiscerning, perfidious, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful;
Rom 1:32 who, knowing the righteous order of God, that those practicing such things are worthy of death, not only do them, but have pleasure in those practicing them.


1Co 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
1Co 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
1Co 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.
1Co 6:13 Meats for the belly and the belly for meats, but God shall destroy both it and them. But the body is not for fornication, but for the Lord; and the Lord is for the body.


1Co 6:18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man does is outside the body, but he who commits fornication sins against his own body.


1Co 10:8 Nor let us commit fornication, as some of them fornicated, and twenty-three thousand fell in one day.


2Co 12:21 lest in my coming again my God will humble me with you; and I shall mourn many who have already sinned, and not repenting over the uncleanness, and fornication, and lustfulness which they have practiced.


Gal 5:16 I say, then, Walk in the Spirit and you shall not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
Gal 5:17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. And these are contrary to one another; lest whatever you may will, these things you do.
Gal 5:18 But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are clearly revealed, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lustfulness,
Gal 5:20 idolatry, sorcery, hatreds, fightings, jealousies, angers, rivalries, divisions, heresies,
Gal 5:21 envyings, murders, drunkennesses, revelings, and things like these; of which I tell you before, as I also said before, that they who do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


Eph 5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also has loved us, and has given Himself for us as an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweet smelling savor.
Eph 5:3 For let fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness not be once named among you, as becomes saints,
Eph 5:4 neither baseness, foolish talking, jesting, which are not becoming, but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For you know this, that no fornicator, or unclean person, or covetous one (who is an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Therefore do not be partakers with them.
Eph 5:8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord; walk as children of light
Eph 5:9 (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth),
Eph 5:10 proving what is acceptable to the Lord.
Eph 5:11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
Eph 5:12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done by them in secret.
Eph 5:13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light, for whatever makes manifest is light.
Eph 5:14 Therefore he says, "Awake, sleeping ones! And arise from the dead, and Christ shall give you light."
Eph 5:15 See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
Eph 5:16 redeeming the time, because the days are evil.
Eph 5:17 Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is.
Eph 5:18 And do not be drunk with wine, in which is excess, but be filled with the Spirit


Col 3:1 If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ is sitting at the right hand of God.
Col 3:2 Be mindful of things above, not on things on the earth.
Col 3:3 For you died, and your life has been hidden with Christ in God.
Col 3:4 When Christ our Life is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.
Col 3:5 Therefore put to death your members which are on the earth: fornication, uncleanness, passion, evil desire, and covetousness (which is idolatry),
Col 3:6 on account of which things' sake the wrath of God is coming on the sons of disobedience,
Col 3:7 among whom you also once walked, when you lived in these.
Col 3:8 But now also put off all these things: anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, shameful speech out of your mouth.
Col 3:9 Do not lie to one another, having put off the old man with his deeds
Col 3:10 and having put on the new, having been renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him

1Th 4:1 For the rest, then, my brothers, we beseech you and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that, as you have received from us how you ought to walk and to please God, so you would abound more and more.
1Th 4:2 For we know what commands we gave you by the Lord Jesus.
1Th 4:3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification, for you to abstain from fornication,
1Th 4:4 each one of you to know how to possess his vessel in sanctification and honor
1Th 4:5 (not in the passion of lust, even as the nations who do not know God),
1Th 4:6 not to go beyond and defraud his brother in this matter (because the Lord is the avenger concerning all these, as we also have forewarned you and testified).
1Th 4:7 For God has not called us to uncleanness, but in sanctification.


Rev 9:21 And they did not repent of their murders, nor of their sorceries, nor of their fornication, nor of their thefts.


Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and the unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, will have their part in the Lake burning with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. [/b]

No one has ever been in more bondage than I have!... so I completely understand what you're going through... and I praise the Lord that you're bold enough to cry out for help...

I'd like to share with you a link to a sermon about "being set free from bondage" that was preached by Gary Wilkerson...

The name of the sermon is
"Cry for an Outstretched Arm"
July 5, 2005 — Times Square Church

I found it at this web address... [url=http://www.worldchallenge.org/sermons/]http://www.worldchallenge.org/sermons/[/url]

God bless you billy...

One more link... Tim Dilena speaks about this subject in a sermon called "Solo Sex".

the web address to his sermons is [url=http://www.revivaltab.org/Audiosermons.shtml]http://www.revivaltab.org/Audiosermons.shtml[/url]

God bless you all!

I will admit that... I'm a bit shocked that... you had enough guts to post this on such a public forum. At the same time, I think this is a "secret sin" that surprisingly many Christians struggle with. And... no one talks about it. I don't know that we really should so openly, but... it is a very real struggle.

I recommend Joshua Harris' book formerly titled [url=http://www.joshharris.com/whatsnew/notevenahint.htm]Not Even A Hint[/url], now titled "Sex Is Not the Problem (Lust Is)". I was shocked when I first went through the book, to read about his confessions of struggling with masturbation. The book primarily gets down to the root of lust, and that's a good place to start, I think. I also heard a powerful message once from Pastor Bob Coy of Calvary Chapel Fort Lauderdale (in Florida) titled [url=http://www.calvaryftl.org/AWMedia/Archive/SanctuarySearchResults.cfm?CurrentPage=2&per_page=10&book=&topic=&searchMonth=&SearchYear=&SearchDay=&keyword=Match&GuestSpeaker=ALL]How To Meet Your Match[/url]. I believe he talks about masturbation... in fact, I'm pretty sure of it. I listened to it about a year ago, and it was quite a convicting message.

One scripture I would encourage you with is Romans 12:1-2 that says,

"I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service.

And [i]do not[/i] be conformed to this world, [i]but be[/i] transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God."

Do not, [i]do not[/i] believe the magazine articles that state masturbation is normal and healthy. [i]Don't[/i] take it lightly as something to joke around about like Green Day did in one of their songs so long ago. And even if other Christians confess that they have or are currently struggling with the same thing, do not, [i]do not[/i] take comfort in their struggles, which more than likely lessens the conviction of sin and leads to personal justification. The root of masturbation is lust and it [i]is[/i] a sin. I don't want you to be condemned, but I [i]do[/i] want you to be broken and grievous about it. That's the first step. Be broken with the knowledge that it's a sin that grieves the Holy Spirit. Don't believe the lies that lead you to give in to this struggle. God has a better plan. The Bible says, "Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled" (Hebrews 13:4). Keep yourself pure for God's good plans for you. This sin along with any other sexually related sin, will corrupt future relationships if not repented of and forgiven. Think about the future, not the moment. Fight for the future. Hold fast to the truth. Cut off anything that leads you into lust, whether TV, movies, magazines, etc.

I'm sorry... I'm passionate about the area of purity. When I am set apart from the world and washed by the water of God's Word, I see His good ways and good plan. Don't let the world, your flesh, or the devil cheapen the good plan God has for you and others. I've seen what sexual sin has done in the church and what it has done to what started out as godly relationships. It makes me sad to see one person after another get ripped off by the enemy. Renew your mind with God's Word and let God's love pour out on you. When you're clothed in His love, His forgiveness, His grace, His acceptance, it will constrain you from allowing yourself to fall defeated by the same sin. Please allow God's truth to set you free from this sin. Don't settle for anything less than God's best for you.

_________________
Yolanda Fields

[Thank you Greg.]


Anyhow, what bothers me, in this age, is how we weaken the POWER of God's Word, by saying "read this book, or listen to this sermon", and not direct each other to the ONLY 'LASTING' source of deliverance.

A sermon can be forgotten by next week, and so can a book, and "support groups" just keep you "remembering your "special weakness"" .... whereas, God's Word is the Only Sure Word, written in 100% Spirit and promises to set us free because it is LIVING and sharper than a two edged sword, dividing bone from marrow, and the "thoughts and intents of the heart" are exposed to us through it, and David said, "THY [u]Word[/u] have I hid in my heart, that I may not Sin against Thee".

True deliverance comes from HIS Word.


When we begin to Love Him and His Word more than ourselves, 'then', we shall see Victory and not become dependent on 'other things', to set us free, but what HE'S provided already, Himself.


His Word is the Only written word that has the POWER that goes straight into our Spirits and not just our 'minds'.

His Word Alone.


In His Love.

Annie

I had a glorious victory over porn/masturbation soon after my conversion. It was like pulling barbed wire out of my flesh. It had become part of me for about 15 years.

This is my comment. Conviction of sin is an absolutely beautiful blessing. The next step is obediance. I prayed in agony for Him to take away my perversion, and He did. I still struggled for a while, but never looked back by the grace of God.

If you really want to repent, pray God would show you what to do, and be obediant. If that's not enough, then like William Booth said, "Try tears." Don't just 'pray', but get ahold of God. If you get serious enough to wake up every day earlier than usual to get on your face and beg, He will hear you and answer, or change your prayer (depending on what you are praying about). Unless you are consumed with wanting to know His will, you may not catch it.

_________________
Hal Bachman

Hi Sara,

Before you ever posted to this thread, that was on my heart.

Before I ever posted to this thread, that was on my heart.

Bless your heart. I have heard tons of Sermons that have "helped me". Amen !!!
I have nothing against them.

It's hard for me to put into words right now.

In fact, I didn't even look at the sermons you had posted, because, like I said, it really is something that's always been on my mind, since certain things have come into the Church years ago. So truly Sara, I would have said it, even if you never posted.

Teen Challenge is 'Wonderful', but then it all got watered down (Not TC, but others) by including the "12 step" program, that was actually gotten "by a channelor". :-(

Then these other "programs" that actually keep the person admitting that they are "addicted".

This is from "the world", honestly.

If God lumps all these things (sins) together and just calls them "sin" and says, "just don't", how can HE be 'so hard' to say that to some poor "addicted" person.

It's like what Satan did to God's Word in Eve's ear in the Garden. "Hath God (really) said ?"


I don't know if I'm explaining myself or my reasonings well enough right now, because I'm sort of really tired today. But I hope you see I have no "bad feeling" toward you or any other Poster. It's just I've seen things change so drastically for "sin 'Re-hab' " over these years from the Teen Challenge days, that it sort of all makes me a bit uneasy about 'where' we're all headed with so much worldly advice, psychology mixed in and the world's wisdom entering in.


And do fear the lessening of the Power of God's Word.


Love you sister and hope you understand that I would have said the exact same words, even if you hadn't posted at all. And that is truth.
Annie