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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The trouble started when I tried to do good - Derek Prince

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 The trouble started when I tried to do good - Derek Prince

At that point I acknowledged that I needed to be a lot better than I was. So I decided that confirmation would be my turning point, and from then on I would become a really good person.

It was only when I decided to be good, however, that I discovered how bad I really was! Quite honestly, the harder I tried to be good, the quicker I got bad! After about six months I just gave it up. At the time, I had no idea that my problem was explained in the seventh chapter of Romans, and unfortunately there was no one there to tell me. But, what Paul states here was exactly my experience. “For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do.” It was the Law that made me conscious of the fact that I hated my sin. The Law pointed out what I should be doing. It said, "Do it." I said, "All right, I’ll do it. Watch me." And, that is when the trouble started!


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Vern

 2019/9/15 14:35Profile
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 Re: The trouble started when I tried to do good - Derek Prince

Wow Vern. At first I was thinking you were actually trying to paraphrase Romans 7, and I though, "Man you nailed it!" But it is amazing that you realized that Paul's experience of trying to be good by the efforts of his own flesh was what you experienced. I am just thankful for Romans 6 and Romans 8. When we die and Christ lives through us we stop walking after the flesh and rise in the power of the Spirit of God to have victory over sin and the flesh. Praise God!


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Travis

 2019/9/15 16:58Profile
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 Re: The trouble started when I tried to do good - Derek Prince

Hi Vern,

You left us hanging here. So we know what Romans 7 says, and trying to keep the law and do good in our own strength just leads to more failure and we finally give up, but what is the answer to all this? How do we overcome and get the victory?


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Mike

 2019/9/15 17:01Profile
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 Re: This was written by Derek Prince

I did not write that statement in the original post but I like many others experienced much defeat and failure in the attempt to do good. Yes the harder I tried to do good the worse it became.

What is the answer? How do we overcome and get victory?

Matt. 19:26, "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."

God Himself solved this problem for us - When Christ died we died with Him. When He was buried, we were buried with Him. When He arose, We were raised with Him. There is no independent "I". We are NOW infused with His LIFE. He abides in us and we abide in Him!!

The law could never give life but Christ's Life within us fulfills and satisfies all the law.

Gal 2:20, "I AM crucified with Christ. (this is a complete and total death of me that can never be uncrucified or resurrected again) Yet here I am, still alive, only it's not me, it is Christ (living and abiding within me this very second). And the life I continue living in this body of flesh, flesh of His flesh, I live entirely by the faith of the Son of God who loves me ( a never ending and continuous unfolding of His love and Life within me) and who fills my heart full with all that He is." Galatians 2:20 & Ephesians 5:30-31

Gal 2:20, "I have been put to death on the cross with Christ; still I am living; no longer I, but Christ is living in me; and that life which I now am living in the flesh I am living by faith, the faith of the Son of God, who in love for me, gave himself up for me." BBE


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Vern

 2019/9/15 19:21Profile
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 Jesus is our continuous hitting of the target

Many belivers act like Cain because they attempt to connect with God by their own labor, a relationship based on "hear and obey." They believe that they should rule over sin and subdue it but living by these words IS the cause of sin in the human.

When a person attempts to relate with God on the basis of not sinning by the knowledge of what God expects, that belief results ONLY in sin and death. "Not sinning" causes sin; it causes both good and evil, both of which are sin. Doing good is as sinful as doing evil, oftentimes more sinful, for the one "doing good" is building his or her own self-righteousness, his or her own claim on God - that is, covenant - because I did, then You must.

The fear of sin causes sin, drawing sin out of self and others. The New Covenant has nothing to do with sin or no sin. Sin in no way "required" Jesus' passage through the atonement, although that passage is redemption; Covenant always did. And that Covenant is the Heart of God.

Any Christian who approaches God on the basis of sin/no sin, even using Jesus as the crucifix inside of that mix, "I must rule over sin - and You must help me," is living by the Old Covenant. Jesus carries them by the New and even relates with them as He is able by the New, but they do not know it. This includes all who teach any form of "cleaning up the outer man" or "getting rid of the old skin." Their backs are turned against Christ; thus they are doing the opposite of what they say. "Getting rid of sin" serves only to increase sin.

We walk in a totally different Covenant Bond by which we walk together in pure and perfect relationship with the Father. Our Bond with Father is absolute, it is complete and it is utterly pure and holy without shadow of any kind, ever. It matters not what we feel like. The Father is in us and we see that our Bond with Him, utterly bound together in perfect Covenant union, Father and me, that Bond remains perfect and complete. And that Covenant Bond alone causes sin to vanish from our experience. The New Covenant is the actual Person of Christ who is alive right now within us.

Do you see how all of Jesus' statements concerning Gehanna, fire and sulfur, are referring directly to the two covenants?

Here is Gehenna (signifying the curse): "I must rule over sin - and You must help me."

The only thing that can result from this covenant for the human is fire and brimstone.

And when sin succeeds in not sinning, what does it become? Sin not sinning is called self-righteousness, the filthiest perversion of iniquity in the universe. Sin not sinning is the greatest sin of all. That is why those who try must lie by the very nature of their disobedience.

They close the door to Christ, and then, with their backs to Christ, they turn to face sin to defeat it. Only they remain in rioting and drunkenness, trying not to riot or get drunk so that someday they can enter into Christ. They remain in sexual immorality and lewdness, trying not to be sexually immoral or to be lewd so that someday they can enter into Christ. They remain in strife and envying trying not to strive and envy so that someday they can enter into Christ.

The problem with sin is not sin itself - except that which steals from another person what God gave to them. The problem is disconnection from God. The word is harmatia, which means missing the target in an arrow shooting contest. But there is another word that means hitting the bulls eye. That word is used in Hebrews, but badly translated by the Calvinist translators. The wording should actually say that Jesus has become our hitting of the target. In other words the sin of "sin" is using the "sin" to drive God far away from ourselves. But when we know that Jesus is our continuous hitting of the target, we place any action that might or might not be "sin," into Him, into His empty grave, and we continue walk as one person together with our Father without hindrance.

We sin before we try to do good because the thought that "I" can is the very essence of and the root of sin.


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Vern

 2019/9/16 8:18Profile
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 Re: Jesus is our continuous hitting of the target

I think this is our experience because we are so ingrained with the idea of rewards for success. I like what Watchman Nee writes about the solution;

God’s means of delivering us from sin is not by making us stronger and stronger, but by making us weaker and weaker. That is surely rather a peculiar way of victory, you say; but it is the Divine way. God sets us free from the dominion of sin, not by strengthening our old man but by crucifying him; not by helping him to do anything but by removing him from the scene of action.

For years, maybe, you have tried fruitlessly to exercise control over yourself, and perhaps this is still your experience; but when once you see the truth you will recognize that you are indeed powerless to do anything, but that in setting you aside altogether God has done it all. Such a revelation brings human self-effort to an end.


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Ron Halverson

 2019/9/16 19:13Profile
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 Re: God has done it all.

"For years, maybe, you have tried fruitlessly to exercise control over yourself, and perhaps this is still your experience; but when once you see the truth you will recognize that you are indeed powerless to do anything, but that in setting you aside altogether God has done it all. Such a revelation brings human self-effort to an end."

YES!!! SO TRUE!!


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Vern

 2019/9/17 6:27Profile
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 Re: Vern

This is a great thread! I've really been inspired reading it, thank you for posting it.


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Mr. Bill

 2019/9/17 9:15Profile
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 Re: Jesus is our continuous hitting of the target

Vern,
You said,
Re:
“For years, maybe, ‘YOU’ have tried fruitlessly to exercise control over yourself, and perhaps this is still your experience; but when once ‘YOU’ see the truth ‘’YOU’ recognize that ‘YOU’ are indeed ‘powerless’ to do anything, but that in setting ‘YOU’ aside altogether God has done it all. Such a revelation brings human ‘self-effort’ to an end." ( emphasis on selected words is mine,eliz)
—————

.....Isn’t there something DIRE wrong here with this humanistic reasoning and approach ???

Could you please consider my thought on this matter that is before us ?

We all realize that the ‘YOU’ in us, cannot do/be as God would have,.. in that the flesh is weak,... but we are to be FILLED with The Spirit of the Living God, ( where we receive power)to,..and walk in The Spirit , that we do not fulfill the will of the flesh.
(and are to be led by The Spirit of God)

When we die,... (baptism),.. and we receive ‘power from on high, are we
‘powerless’ ?
——————-
*and you said,...that we are ‘bonded’ with God, ..we walk bonded with God..
——————-
But I ask, How can two walk together and not agree ?
Since God is the Word,.. and truth,.. how can a lie walk with Truth, and be in agreement?
—————
I do not understand your reasoning,....
Is it the understanding of The Spirit?,... I think not.

Is this the teaching of Jesus, Paul, and all the disciples,apostles?
—————
They taught ‘the gospel of the kingdom’ , and the principles,.. things pertaining to the heavenly kingdom that The Lord has called us into.

——————
For His Namesake,
———————
elizabeth


 2019/9/17 11:11Profile
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 Re: elizabeth

First of I never wrote that - it is a quote from Ron Halverson in the post before this statement.

Second - many believers are trying to overcome sin in thier own efforts.

Third - I posted

We walk in a totally different Covenant Bond by which we walk together in pure and perfect relationship with the Father. Our Bond with Father is absolute, it is complete and it is utterly pure and holy without shadow of any kind, ever. It matters not what we feel like. The Father is in us and we see that our Bond with Him, utterly bound together in perfect Covenant union, Father and me, that Bond remains perfect and complete. And that Covenant Bond alone causes sin to vanish from our experience. The New Covenant is the actual Person of Christ who is alive right now within us.

This is the Gospel of the Kingdom - that the KING - JESUS CHRIST lives, dwells and abides within us this VERY SECOND!! We are now in Christ. 1 Corinthians 1:30, "But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption,"


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Vern

 2019/9/17 12:56Profile





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