In a June 20th interview on the international cable television program Larry King Live, the pastor of one of America's largest churches said that he does not know who goes to heaven or who goes to hell.

When asked if [b]atheists[/b] go to heaven, Joel Osteen of Lakewood Church in Houston, Texas, replied, [i]"I'm going to let God be the judge of who goes to heaven and hell"[/i] (Charismanow.com, June 30). When asked where Jews or Muslims go if they [b]don't accept Jesus Christ[/b], Osteen replied, [i]"You know, I'm very careful about saying who would and wouldn't go to heaven; [b]I don't know[/b]."[/i]

In a letter posted to his web site, Osteen later apologized for being "[i]unclear on the very thing in which I have dedicated my life.[/i]" He said: "[i]In my desire not to alienate the people that Jesus came to save, I did not clearly communicate the convictions that I hold so precious.[/i]"

In fact, in his statements on Larry King Live Osteen [b]was indeed[/b] communicating the core conviction of his church-growth philosophy, which is to preach "positive truth." He has not drawn a crowd of tens of thousands by preaching [b]clearly[/b] on eternal Hell as the Lord Jesus Christ did, and even in his "apology" Osteen did not plainly state that those outside of Christ go to an eternal fiery Hell.

When Osteen packed out the Coliseum in Charlotte, North Carolina, in March of this year, a local news reporter enthused, "Osteen doesn't rail against gays or thump a Bible, like so many others do" ("Evangelist: Don't Worry, Be Happy," The Charlotte Observer, March 8, p. E1). Osteen's message was, "Make a decision before you leave this place, you're going to get happy [b]where you are[/b]."

This is a direct fulfillment of 2 Timothy 4:3-4: "[i]For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears, and they shall turn away their ears from the truth and shall be turned unto fables.[/i]"

Beware of ear tickling preachers who are willing to give a wicked, apostate generation a soft, new kind of Christianity that we [b]do not see in Scripture[/b].

Krispy

By the way... Larry King asks these same questions to every single Christian "leader" he has on his show. He's done it for years. Only Jerry Falwell had the ... well... guts... to answer correctly. The Grahams, Rick Warren, Pat Robertson, etc all squirmed over the years and would not give the Truth that is found in scripture.

If these jokers arent prepared to answer this question that King asks of all of them... then they need to avoid going on that show.

It's a disgrace.

Krispy

One day we all will be interviewed by the [b]KING[/b] of kings.

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Eli Brayley

Yes, I agree! I stand with you with this new "Fear of man, rather than God" gospel. We don't want to preach and teach the Truth because we will become outcasts, loose members of our churches, have problems within our leadership over doctrine. If we are called to be God's "Spokeman" for the Truth and defend it, and don't??? Woe unto us! You see, I'm right in the middle of this problem in my church, where I'm a worship leader/guitarist and teacher. The teaching of God's Word is poor at best! In a spirit-filled church at that! I been asked not to make waves by some brothers, I may be asked to leave the church, as a result of pointing out hypocrisy in the leadership and pulpit. The fear of man, dominates the American church today, lets only preach the positive word!, I'll over-look your sin, if you will over-look my sin mentality! Rubbish!

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Bryan

Is this necessary? Is there no tact left among us?

This tendency to drag this forum down into the gutter with these kinds of things. Though many would surely agree with the problems inherent within the context here, the ease of character assassination and slander despite all that. Who is it that we think we are and Who is it that we belong to?

Luk 9:55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what [b][i]manner[/i][/b] of spirit ye are of.

Forget the defenses and the 'offending', that's not the issue. Just think about what this looks like to the rest here and to those outside coming to this site. And take a look inside as well. Is it worth it, are you grieved or feeling a bit smug and superior over all this, it certainly gives off that impression. Think about it.

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Mike Balog

I'm usually with you Crosscheck, and yes, I'm tired of all the bickering on this site too. It's not very spiritually edifying, but I do think it has its place. We may give it more of a place than it deserves, though.

There is a time to point out those that are propagating falsehood in the church.

Paul even called them by name and warned the church of them:

1Ti 1:19 Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck:
1Ti 1:20 Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

2Th 3:14 And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

Kendal

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Kendal Shipley

I agree that we should not "name call" and we do have to be careful about our wording here.

But, the Lord seems to be laying it on my heart very heavily that we must not be afraid to take a stand against what is false and what is being toted as "gospel" today. When there is no mention of the cross, of repentance- there is no gospel.

Thousands are flocking to this easy believism, "just say and it and believe it", motivational, "what can I get from God" gospel.

After some of the persecution I have faced about my own stand in the faith, i am at the point where I either have to stand for what is truly right or just sit on the fence. And i am not about to sit on the fence after what i have been through.

When we start to reject what is toted as "christianity" today and is selling like hotcakes, we will offend (though we will not do so purposely- and we don't need to).

Thank the Lord that He will still bring people to Himself whether they are following Joel Osteen or not.

By the way, I have his book (Your Best life Now) and at one time I prayed "Lord, why can't it be so for me? Why can't it be this easy for me?" It sure looks and tastes good, but unfortunately, it is not the truth.

In Christ, Chanin

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Chanin

Sorry Mike... but I call it as I see it. I can take this thread to another site if you wish, but I think everyone here is mature enough to handle the truth, my brother. I dont think calling Osteen a liar, deciever and a wimp is out of line. He did what he did publicly... and should be held accountable publicly.

If you really have an issue with this thread... so be it. I'll stick to more soft issues and avoid the truth... like Osteen. I learned a couple months ago that this site does not belong to me. I'll submit to the powers that be here. Just let me know.

Krispy

I spoke somewhat on this issue recently in a sermon at my church (if anybody wants it, I can provide it) called "Band-Aid Religion" based on Jeremiah 6:13-14 about how the priest and the prophet alike superficially heal the wounds of people, all in the name of gain. All these 40 days with Jesus, and 7 steps to Joy type books only superficially deal with the deep spiritual problems people face, and as a result, only make matters for people worse. They teach that you can have joy and salvation, yet keep your sin. But because they fail to deal with the sin issue, they only give people a superficial joy and salvation. Jesus has been baptized into Dr Phil these days.

I'll never forget the only official sermon I preached at my last church, and how my pastor who reviewed my notes (I was an intern) asked me to take talk about hell out of my sermon.... in a Pentecostal (Assemblies of God) Church at that!

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Jimmy H