Jeff you know I respect Joel Richardson as much as anyone. And he does set forth a convincing case Antichrist could very well be a Muslim.

But if we accept the premise the Antichrist will be one who has power over the whole world. Then he would have to be one who would convince Hindu's in India, the Buddfhists of Southeadt Asia that he is tveir Mesdiah. Along with the Jews of Israel and the apostate Christian church.

I don't see a Muslim Antichrist doing this.
Particularly in a predominantly Hindu Nation Mike India. India's a nuclear power. As a matter of fact they have more nuclear weapons than Pakistan who is Islamic. In a nuclear exchange Pakistan may very well be blown to radioactive dust. That is if the Muslims tried to invade India.

Just pointing out a possible scenario. Actually probably one that could be realistic given the fact that India and Pakistan have been enemies these over the region of Kashmir.

I'm prone to think that the Antichrist will be a chrismatic figure possessed by Satan. Probably one who will bring the three great monotheistic religions together. And all of the lesser religions will fall into place. This individual will probably convince the world he is their savior.

From what we know about Islam. It is pretty bloodthirsty. I don't think a bloodthirsty Messiah is going to appeal to the rest of the world. Also I think other nations like India and North Korea would fight an Islamic Antichrist.

But then brother these are only my observations.

Bro Blaine

RE: ///And the saudis are huge consumers of delicacies and fancies and slaves. Rome? Not so much. They are not a huge purchaser of things. But boy oh boy are the Saudis!///

But if the saudies fall there are still multitudes that will buyeth the merchants merchandise

18:

2 And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

5 For her sins have reached unto heaven, and God hath remembered her iniquities.

6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

7 How much she hath glorified herself, and lived deliciously, so much torment and sorrow give her: for she saith in her heart, I sit a queen, and am no widow, and shall see no sorrow.

8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong is the Lord God who judgeth her.

9 And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning,

10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come.

11 And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more:

12 The merchandise of gold, and silver, and precious stones, and of pearls, and fine linen, and purple, and silk, and scarlet, and all thyine wood, and all manner vessels of ivory, and all manner vessels of most precious wood, and of brass, and iron, and marble,

13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

14 And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are departed from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are departed from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

15 The merchants of these things, which were made rich by her, shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing,

OK brothergary. Satan is running a lot of religions lets say. There are so many sects of Christianity, like what 800? Many of them being goofy in different ways, so they are run by Satan too.

But are Catholics saved? Will I see Catholics in heaven? Absolutely I will.

Because they were raised by the Gospel PLUS something else, does not mean they dont believe Jesus is God and man, died on the cross, his shed blood for our sins, died and was resurected and is seated at the right hand of Father God. They believe in the Trinity. This is saving right there. Let God be the judge.

But I will tell you not one Muslim will be going to heaven with the Jesus they believe in.

Easy believeism? Well thats the good news aint it. Believe and be saved. Live like the devil? Ah you cant really believe and do so. The Holy Spirit makes it so.

_________________
Linda

Bear,
The exact origins language of the texts you're referring to don't support the previously held view. You should check out Mideast Beast. I am convinced you will be surprised at the accuracy, study, & scholarly evaluation. Or check out YouTube videos where he explains parts of Mideast Beast. It's VERY convincing. He addresses at length what you're mentioning, & also addresses everything else & brings it all together. The evidence to me, is staggering. I wouldn't be heralding it if it wasn't. I am not cheerleading it after one quick first glance or without addressing all the questions/issues, trust me. I think God is using Joel in these areas in this late hour to bring clarity to the scriptures through responsible, in depth, solid years of study & teaching on the subject. And the Lord keeps confirming it to me again and again, both through the Word (first and foremost of course) & other confirmations.
God Bless,
Jeff

PP,
Did you watch the video? Cause if that most populated shipping channel (right parallel with Mecca) in the world gets devastated, do you not think that would affect any world trade?
God Bless,
Jeff

Jeff to be honest I probably won't read those books or watch the videos.

But I do have a question-- what "evidence" are you talking about?

Evidence is comprised of facts intended to prove something.

Since there is a severe dearth of info in the scriptures about a "beast" or "antichrist" (and much of the info that is there is highly symbolic and mysterious) how can one claim to have evidence of something that is at best speculative?

So what I would say is that joel r. Is speculating. He may have good reasons to support his speculation, but those reasons are not evidence. They are simply reasons to support his theory. The reformers and puritans had great reasons for naming the papacy as the beast and I still find their reasons compelling. But they are just reasons, not evidence. Theoretically if there is enough evidence something moves from theory to fact. I don't think Joel r will be able to do that.

If he has overwhelming evidence of who this Mideast Beast is (sounds like a WWF name) then he should start naming names.

But even assuming you believe that he is 100% correct, what do you intend to do with that information?

_________________
Todd

Excessive speculation and fascination fills this thread, and not a trace of contextualization.

Tis the millennial maze!

RE:///PP,
Did you watch the video?///

I started it before posting, I was finding it to be long and Monotone and very speculitive.

After your reply, I spent the almost an hour listening to it. I found the entire video to be Monotone and very speculitive.

Monotone is not a bad thing, actually it is very good, When someone can speak to us in a very monotone way and there message cuts to our heart, we know that it is real and not just a manipulation tactic. but on the other hand when someone presents something to us in a very monotone way in which does not penetrate beyound the intellect, I find it to be very difficult to follow.

It could just be me (and I say that with a certain amount of sobriety) but I personally found it hard to follow


edit add : when I say : "hard or difficult to follow" I mean It does not keep my attention.

The video skips tons of Biblical details (verse by verse), but Joel's book & teaching does not. It all starts in rightly understanding Daniel (particularly 2 & 7-11). This is why I think the enemy has fought so hard to bring confusion to the book of Daniel, had demonic cults twist it, etc. because he knows what it means and the ultimate importance of it. Joel does an excellent job of going through the scriptures verse by verse, scholar by scholar, showing the historic Roman view, explaining why it can't be reconciled to the text so must be force-fed, ignored, or altered (& then repeated for years so people take it as "long held fact"), etc. And then, since the things in Daniel are in perfect alignment with the things Jesus Himself referenced from Daniel in Matthew 24 & are again brought up in Revelation (& elsewhere), we can get the right picture altogether. End up at the right ending place from a right starting place. When I understand God's intentions (concerning Israel), His Words all working together in context & flow from the curse/Gospel seed laid out in Genesis, through details in the prophets, through the Olivet discourse, and then in the end in Revelation, I can better understand what the Lord was trying to show us (otherwise, Why would God "waste so much time/scripture on something that "doesn't matter"? As some would have you believe?).

I think understanding this will help me see the heart/mind of God concerning Israel in the days ahead too. That doesn't mean I ONLY will care for Jews (Muslims too since they are the largest mission field ON EARTH. As well as anyone in my sphere). Or I ONLY look at eschatology & reject other responsibilities, disregard who I am in Christ, etc. (those are straw man arguments used to say that even though 70% of the Biblical texts refer to prophecy in some way, "it doesn't matter" balderdash). It also can affect how I sow missionally. Ultimately, I think it will matter in the days ahead in REALLY understanding where we are in the timeline for urgency (anyone tells me They are "as urgent as is possible" about it, I would disagree with facts & logic), & in how we see & relate to the coming last holcaust against the Jews & the Jewish people. What that will look like exactly remains to be seen yet, but will be a forefront issue of/when she is decimated & scattered among the nations again.

And I "think" from what the prophecies all seem to show that the Antichrist (the Islamic Madhi) will be either from Turkey, or at least of Turkish descent. That's what looks the most plausible.

Anyways, as a basic response, if it doesn't matter at all, why all the fuss to suppress it? 😊
God Bless,
Jeff

And the fact is, if I'm willing to read & watch the preterist & amillineal articles, books, debates, videos (I have), but no one is willing to look at what I'm saying is more conducive & in line with the scriptures as a whole, then what you're saying is, I know you've looked at both & are convinced one side is more Biblical accurate, but I have only looked at my 1 side, won't spend the time to look at what you're saying is worthy of looking at, but I still feel confident I'm right enough to argue/debate it to death, I'm not willing to be challenged/wrong, etc. Or "it doesn't really matter anyways" (after dozens of posts explaining the opposite view). Do you see the inconsistency & potential issue in such a "confirmation bias" approach?
God Bless,
Jeff

And saying I used to believe in Dispensationalism too & could teach it doesn't count. That's not what I'm espousing. That straw man gets REALLY OLD. If someone was "wrong" and believed in Dispensationalism, but now believes Amillineal/ Preterism/Replacement Theology (usually grouped together), couldn't they still be wrong again?

It is monotone. It's a computer generated voice - FYI