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Appolas states:
Bro Blaine could tell you that out of just over 200 nations, Christians are now persecuted in over 160 nations. This is the greatest persecution that we have seen but it is still not " all nations." This is yet to come.
So, you are saying we are supposed to keep count and once it reaches 200, Jesus is imminent?
What defines a nation as hating Christians? Everyone banning Christians and calling for their death? If Christians are persecuted in a nation by some people does that mean the whole nation is calling for their death?
It looks like you or Blane are defining it in this way: if one Christian is being persecuted then the nation they are from falls into the "all nation", category.
Just need some clarity if I am going to keep count.
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|  2016/4/19 14:24 | |
| | Re: | | Hi Julias,
" All Nations," seems pretty self explanatory.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake...............bro Frank |
| | 2016/4/19 15:35 | |
| | Re: | | Julius why are you so sarcastic for those of us who believe in the soon return of Jesus Christ? I think you would be rejoicing that Jesus is coming soon. But whenever anyone of us posts about His soon return. You get cynical and sarcastic. Or am I misreading your posts.
Question is respectfully asked?
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| | 2016/4/19 16:00 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
by appolus on 2016/4/19 15:35:37
" All Nations," seems pretty self explanatory.
Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake...............bro Frank
Ok, well I am not waiting for it to be every single geo-political nation. And why is that?
Because of how "nations" are referred to in the Bible and what is meant by "nations".
In the following context, nation or nations mean people or peoples not countries or governments.
And the LORD said unto her, Two NATIONS are in thy womb, and TWO MANNER OF PEOPLE shall be separated from thy bowels; and the one people shall be stronger than the other people; and the elder shall serve the younger.Genesis 25:23
Now therefore, I pray thee, if I have found grace in thy sight, shew me now thy way, that I may know thee, that I may find grace in thy sight: and consider that THIS NATION IS THY PEOPLE. Exodus 33:13
And ye shall not walk in the manners of the nation, which I cast out before you: for they committed all these things, and therefore I abhorred them…. I am the LORD your God, which have separated you FROM OTHER PEOPLE. And ye shall be holy unto me: for I the LORD am holy, and have severed you FROM OTHER PEOPLE, that ye should be mine. Leviticus 20:23-26
But, as we see in the NT, in this verse (Matt 21:43) the word “nation” has two primary connotations. In both cases, the focus is on people, not governments or borders of a country. In the first example (Mt. 21:43), after Jesus told the parable of the vineyard, He warns that the kingdom of God was about to be taken from those who outwardly rejected Him and given to those who received Him. Since we know that Jesus is not referring to Egypt or Syria or any other physical nation with borders, we can only conclude He means the church (people of all languages, tribes, tongues, nations).
From other scriptures we can surmise that Jesus is talking about gathering ALL PEOPLE.
When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: And before him shall be gathered all NATIONS (people): and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world…. Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. Matthew 25:31-34, 41
Obviously, He is separating individuals and not geo-political nations. It is obviously the last day judgment and He is addressing people.
Go ye therefore, and teach all NATIONS, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Matthew 28:19
Governments and borders cannot be baptized or taught; He is referring to people, here.
And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Revelation 5:9f
God promises in Revelation not to save the nations, but save His people out of the nations, and make them kings.
The second meaning of the word “nation” appears to be a synonym for the word “Gentiles”, as shown in this passage:
Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek:) for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you. Matthew 6:31-33
The words “nations” and “Gentiles” are sometimes used interchangeably in English translations. In those cases “the nations” refers to all nations except for Israel. What you have then in the New Testament, is “the nations” (the Gentiles) and THE nation, the people of God. This was true of the church in the Old Testament as well as in the New.
Only in Christ do individuals truly become a people, under one king, the Lord Jesus Christ. It is fitting then, that the people of God would be physically scattered among the Gentiles and yet spiritually gathered out of them to become a distinct people, a holy nation.
With all this in mind, do you still think that Jesus Christ is speaking about every geo-political country on earth hating Christians? If so, I'm glad someone is keeping count. |
| | 2016/4/19 16:27 | |
| | Re: | | Quote:
by bearmaster on 2016/4/19 16:00:54
Julius why are you so sarcastic for those of us who believe in the soon return of Jesus Christ? I think you would be rejoicing that Jesus is coming soon. But whenever anyone of us posts about His soon return. You get cynical and sarcastic. Or am I misreading your posts.
Question is respectfully asked?
Hi Bear,
You are misreading my posts. I too am excited. I was trying to make a point that Jesus was not talking about geo-political boundaries (modern day nations). My follow-up post gives the OT and NT definition of "nations". We have to go with biblical language, Blane.
The saints "under the altar", also asked the Lord "when will you avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?"
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
Notice that Jesus did not say, 1) when all nations hate you 2) when there are more earthquakes 3) when the spirit of Satan possesses a man, etc, etc. (By the way, the scriptures do say, "then Satan entered into Judas". So, that already happened).
No, Jesus said, they needed to "rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."
In other words, we have no idea what a "little season" is. Everything is in God's hands and timing. |
| | 2016/4/19 16:30 | |
| | Re: | | Hi Julias
The Greek word for nation is ethnos, its where we get our word ethnic. It simply means race or tribe. And so,in the end, every race and every tribe on earth, the whole world, will hate Christians.............bro Frank
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| | 2016/4/19 16:59 | |
| | Re: | | Yes, apollas,
Now that we agree "nations" mean "people", think about what has to happen in this world for ALL people to turn against Christians.
Great talking with you.
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| | 2016/4/19 18:24 | |
| | Re: | | HI Julias,
Just for clarity, it does not mean people, it means tribes and races. Why is that important? Well people have always hated Christians and so using that term can dilute what it actually means. When every tribe and every race in the world turn against and hate Christians, well, that is something we have never seen before. What has to happen for that to happen. Well we have laid out a number of very plausible easy to understand scenarios of how that can unfold and how the world even as we speak is already primed to hate genuine saints as opposed to those who will be part of the end time apostate church, the great whore church.Glad we agree on something :) .........bro Frank |
| | 2016/4/19 18:56 | |
| | Re: | | Yeah, that's fine. Tribes and races are ok. It's still people.
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| | 2016/4/19 19:05 | |
| | Re: Julius | | John 15:18
If the world hates you, you know that it has hated Me before it hated you.
1 John 5:19
We know that we are of God and the whole world lies in the power of the evil one.
Brother we can get caught up in arguing over what the word "nations" means. But then we lose sight of what Jesus is saying in Matthew 24:9. Jesus tells us that you will be hated by "all nations" because of my name. In Matthew 10:22 Jesus says you will be hated by "all" because of my name.
So whether you use the term nations, people, or world, the message is clear. There will be a global hatred of the followers of Christ. And it will be worldwide.
I only use the term geopolitical entities for descriptive purposes only. The United Nations estimates there probably about 193 geopolitical entities called Nations. Give or take as few political boundaries are always shifting. It is estimated that at least 150 of these geopolitical entities called nations manifest some hostility toward Christians. And the number continues to grow.
Even in America, a hostility toward Christians is developing. I see this manifesting into a worldwide hatred toward the followers of Christ. I see this as a fulfillment of the prophecy of Jesus in Matthew 24 and Mark 10.
As the World grows darker and more the world is given over to Satan. Then there will certainly come a global hatred of Christians. And that will lead to global nartyrdom of the followers in Christ.
My thoughts.
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| | 2016/4/19 19:06 | |
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