I hear the phrase a lot and I admit it rankles me.

It goes along the lines of "While you are here you can get what God has for you" or "You can get to a new level and get what God has for your life."

The phrase is usually tossed into contexts of meaning "get what you want or think you need" from God.

Let's set aside considerations of the "great and precious promises" of God with us as we seek Him and He walks with us. I am talking about the ever increasing invitation to just "get what you need".

I can go into more detail but I am fishing here a bit. Do you hear this phrase and this plea or invitation where you are and what do you make of it?

I will tell you that I think it is pablum and preacher talk signifying nothing. But I need feedback.

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Tim

Responding to myself -- I must be losing my mind!! :D

I saw AFTER I'd posted the OP here that other active threads were going on related themes and I want you all to know I'm not piling on. I have a genuine need for feedback. So, I'll give a short backdrop.

Common repeated phrase in our church from the pulpit is "you need to worship [meaning hands up, etc.] so you can get what you need from God" or "get up here in the altar and get what you need from God" or "get what God has for your life." That kind of stuff.

Evangelist comes into the church for a "revival" this week. Preaches a sound message on forgiveness on Sunday AM. Then, Sunday night says the following:

1. "Christian living does not have to be hard. It is not supposed to be hard." Used Matthew 7:11 for that. (Saeed Abedini, you're doing something wrong, bro. Richard Wurmbrand, I hope you've been straightened out on Christian living since you went home. It wasn't supposed to BE hard.)

2. "You need to come and get what God has for your life." (The build up before the altar call, and a mere repeat of what we get all the time.)

3. He used the account of the Syrian siege on Samaria in 2 Kings 7, and Elisha's rebuke of the officer for doubting the word of the LORD to Elisha (vv 1, 2) to say that people who didn't respond to his altar call would be denying God's word to them and they would not get what God had for them.


4. He name dropped Jesse Duplantis. (Whose words are as edifying as the pea soup that Linda Blair made famous.) He quoted Duplantis and said, "You know, there's only one Jesse." To which I replied aloud, "and that's one too many."

We got up and left. And, frankly, at this moment at least, we are of the mind that it was the last straw for us.

So, after my temper has settled, and my wife's as well -- just think now, I had to deprogram my daughter on all that on the way home because she listens -- I'm asking about this whole 'get what God has for you' thing because, brothers and sisters, I don't see it in Scripture.

We got word after service Sun. night that they had a "great altar service" --- meaning a lot of squalling and shouting were happening about things no one will remember a month from now --- and we were just (sorry to use the word after the Patriots scandal) deflated. Our own relatives were cooing and oohing. We were trying to keep from throwing up.
We both had knotted up stomachs over it.

And, even as I type this I'm close to tears (I VERY seldom cry). Not only anger although I admit some, but heartbreak. How can people fall for this? What do you do when people who name Jesus are being trapped like this?

Let me tell you something (I know this is long already and I'm sorry). I teach an adult SS class. Ages 40-60 or so. Casual, smallish class of about 8-10 most weeks. We've been doing a curriculum on prayer (not a great one, but I learned the hard way to keep their attention you have to make it really simplified). We started a new lesson on the model prayer of Jesus. I asked the class, "What about prayer makes it seem simple or not simple to you?"

Blank stares. Then one of the biggest hand-raisers and swayers and demonstrative "worshippers" in church services said, "Well, I really have a hard time making time for it. But it depends on the situation. If you're praying about a need for somebody, that can be hard."

If not for similar comments from her before (e.g., "Do the Jews not like Jesus or something?") I'd have fainted dead away from embarrassment for her. BUT, then another spiritually leading woman in our church said, "Yeah. I think it depends." That was really insightful.

It was as close as any of them have come to just out and saying, "You know, I really don't pray. But, when we get in that church afterwhile, I'm worshipping my head off because God inhabits the praises of His people." And, the one lady did -- she typically does -- proclaiming in song her devotion to the God she loves so much that she finds it hard to pray and it really depends, prayer is situational, etc.

Thing is --- I LOVE these people. They are CLUELESS and they are leaders in this church.

Let me share something else. Pastor invites me to lunch last Thursday. Wants to talk. After lots of other conversation, he asks me this: "What do you think we can do about the problem?" (The problem as I identified it to him at his request is the lack of devotion in the daily lives of the people in the church; I refused to bite and lay the blame at his feet although he bears much because he's not leading them away from their complacent worldliness. He asked my thoughts on what to do, not my thoughts on what I think of him. If he sees it like he says he does and after being 20 years a pastor doesn't know what to do, who am I?)

I asked him to let me think about it a second. I finished my bite of chicken tender and prayed silently. Then, I asked him if he'd heard of the Hebrides revival. He said, "vaguely" (which means "no" in preacher talk and also means he never listened to the Wed. night teaching on it I'd done months and months ago when he was absent and he always says he listens to them!!). So, I filled him in on a 5 minute version of it. I emphasized this: "Pastor, if 2 little old ladies can pray, and the Bible says 2 can put 10,000 to flight, you need two or more people besides you praying for repentance and revival." He nodded like "okay, alright already". He wants gimmicks and "solutions".
Just paid for lunch and let him get on his way. He did pay for lunch, hallelujah.

So, then this evangelist comes this weekend and says these things that are patently false and Pastor amens it.

I'm left questioning my own self, here. My wife, too. We're of the same mind on this. Could we be wrong? Might we just be wrong?

Judging biblically, no. We're right. We always examine ourselves. We read. We hurt for people. We have been slow to anger when people think we're not joining in the carnival. We've been eyeballed and blackballed and we've stayed put. Until now.

What makes now different is the explicit nature of the approval of the false teaching. But, if I'm loading things with significance that are not significant, I need to figure that out somehow. I don't want to a drama queen or make mountains out of molehills. But, y'all, I think this is kind of a big ol' hill at the very least.

Alright. You've heard enough. Sorry and pray for us.

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Tim

Tim,

I had a mind to reply to your OP, but was not sure I had anything of value to give you. Now you have added more I can see that my first thoughts were right. Not sure how much value I'll add though!

It is clear that those leading and those following them want a god of their own imagination. They want a god who will make them the centre of their world, rather than seeing that God himself is the centre and bringing their lives in step with His word. They want God to meet THEIR desires, rather than seek His glory.

If I was in a meeting you just described (and I have been) I would leave and you would not see me for dust! I would rather meet with a few folk in my home than subject myself and family to spiritual manipulation.

I know that you are well established in that church and have responsibilities and so it is not just a case of walking out and never coming back, more has to be said and done. I was in similar position a few years back (slightly different issues, but false teaching and manipulation) and it came to a head after one particularly bad service, so I wrote my concerns to the Pastor (not the first time). The final outcome after a meeting with him and a few others was that my wife and I left. I had previously regularly preached and helped lead the men's ministry there, but when it came to me confronting the error, my suggestion of wanting to resign my membership was accepted without him trying to dissuade me. That's some pastoring!

Not sure this helps, but I think you have to confront the root issues here, which seem to be a wrong perception of who God really is and how we relate to Him. Difficult when you have one man holding the position of authority. It does not matter how much he says he wants to see revival or to see his folk becoming more godly, if his view of God and Godliness is wrong you will be speaking to the wind. If you are given the platform then use it to clearly tell the church what is true and false in the same way you had to with your daughter.

On the other hand, it seems you have the ear of the Pastor and he ask your advice, so maybe you need to suggest that you get some biblical ministries into your church to support a biblical understanding of Christianity, either in person or on teaching videos. There are a lot of good resources out there (not least SI).

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Dave

Quote: " He name dropped Jesse Duplantis. (Whose words are as edifying as the pea soup that Linda Blair made famous.) He quoted Duplantis and said, "You know, there's only one Jesse." To which I replied aloud, "and that's one too many."

That made me laugh! I wish I had been there just to hear that!!

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Dave

Tim-

Let me play a bit of a devil's advocate here.

Do you think most Christians (and we can even narrow down to your fellow church members) have experienced all that God intends for them?

I would confidently say "absolutely not." But the key to the discussion will be to determine what God ACTUALLY intends (I.e. What's the abundant life?) vs what people THINK He intends for them or what they WANT to think He intends for them.

That being said, I do think there are ways we can "go for it." Most Christians could care less about "going for it." So I think it would certainly be appropriate for a pastor to try to get his listeners on fire to go for it. But again the burning question is what the "IT" is.

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Todd

If that was all there is to this "it" that is the vision of the pastor and the way he does what he does, I would continue to be his largest cheerleader. I tried to put together a more descriptive response for this. It is too much to post online. If you went back and read the post that I shared sometime ago about what's wrong with Pentecost, I think that would help clarify my heart on this and where our local church is. I ask you to pray for our pastor at our church.

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Tim

Quote: "get what you want or think you need"

I have to go way back to when I was just started going the church.. It may be the first time I was in the coffee shop, when in there one brother came up and said these words "you'll even get your RS turbo"!!!!

For those of you who don't know it a particular type of car, now the funny thing is this man never knew for Adam, he didn't know that one of my desires was to have a RS turbo, he didn't know that I used to make up songs about that car and sing them to my sister. To be honest it did blow my mind at the time.

Many years passed since those early days and I could have easily went out and bought that car, but it's not a desire of my heart to own that car anymore...

Scripture tells us: Delight yourself in the LORD and he will give you the desires of your heart... Psalm 37:4

But there is a flip side to the coin -

Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves... Rom 1:24

God gave them what you wanted; as he gave them over to the lustful desires of their heart.

Many in the church want the ‘carnival’ and the many are getting exactly what they want. Along comes the false preacher who declares “Jesus is the Christ” and the many are deceived – why because God is giving them up to the lusts of there heart.

Quote: Do you think most Christians (and we can even narrow down to your fellow church members) have experienced all that God intends for them?

I guess is where I take the focus of the church and put the focus on myself – the question must be asked: God are my hands clean? Is my heart pure?

I am going for it, this year I have determined it to be so and the focus is my own heart… for if I am to get all that God intends for me then my heart must be right with God, it must have the correct desires and none of those lustful desires and my hands clean must be clean of any ungodly action…

For me the IT is.... a pure heart that loves and delights in God, whose hands are clean from acts of ungodliness...

Edit: spelling

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Colin Murray

The problem in criticizing the phrase lies in its ambiguity. Context is essential here. I would not criticize or wrestle in prayer over urging us to get hold of God and live more of a crucified, sanctified thought life and using "get what you meed", etc for that. Obviously, that is not what is happening.

But, murr, I hear you. Ditto for me.

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Tim

Dear brother,
I believe I understand your experience.
At the risk of sounding dismissive, may I suggest your church may not be the place for you and your family?
It appears you may be trying to converse with a statue in your efforts to serve.
If, as it appears, the pastor, after 20 years cannot accurately see his situation, let alone, the sheep, then, sir, I would quietly move on.
Unless the Lord very specifically calls you to remain here as a witness to them, I would suggest you seek Him as to where you are to be planted [including your own home, meeting with people whom Jesus brings]/
May the Lord grant you light in the matter, amen.

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Tolu

We're praying and seeking and counseling each other and with others, Theophila. I appreciate your prayers, too. Not dismissive on your part --- we're all up in the middle of that possibility. :)

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Tim