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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Christian Wedding Vendors, Gay Marriage, and 1 Cor 8

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KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Christian Wedding Vendors, Gay Marriage, and 1 Cor 8

Now that gay marriage is well on the way to becoming the law of the land, how do you all feel about Christian wedding vendors participating in these events? For example, a Christian vendor who does cake or photography services?

Do you think Paul's teaching in 1 Cor 8 on meat sacrificed to idols might be applicable here?


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Jimmy H

 2014/10/11 10:21Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re: Christian Wedding Vendors, Gay Marriage, and 1 Cor 8


The Lord will have to show me specifically if that verse applies to Christian vendors or not b/c I don't think it does.

If we keep separating ourselves from them, how are they supposed to see the love of the Lord in our hearts toward them? I will say this again, I believe the churches treatment of homosexuals has created the gay community but I could be wrong.

I realize my take on this is different, but to take pictures or bake a cake has absolutely nothing to do with eating things sacrificed to idols, imho. BUT I realize I could be wrong yet again but will wait on the Lord to show me I shouldn't love them.

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2014/10/11 12:25Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings

My daughter use to do wedding photography but once she saw the trend and where it was heading she chose out of conviction to leave the business. I will say that she was not only convicted about the sin of homosexuality it was also some of the receptions of unsaved married couples that were troubling. The behavior and dress often made worse by the consumption of large amounts of alcohol made doing the job difficult.

I think each one would have to pray and ask GOD what HE has for them in this situation.


To Lisa, you wrote:BUT I realize I could be wrong yet again but will wait on the Lord to show me I shouldn't love them.
______________

Could I ask you do you feel someone who follows their conscious and chooses not to work for homosexual weddings is some how unloving??? Just trying to understand your last comment.

God bless
maryjane

 2014/10/11 17:36Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4488


 Re: Christian Wedding Vendors, Gay Marriage, and 1 Cor 8

Personally, I don't think that a requirement like this would ultimately stand up in court. Would society demand that a restaurant owned by African Americans be required to serve racist KKK clan members dressed in their vile robes? There are plenty of establishments that can be "selective" on who they serve.

One way to "solve" this issue might be to have a closed membership in regard to who will be served. During a public policy class that I took during grad school, we learned that for-profit businesses owned by homosexuals (e.g., gay bars, gay clubs, websites, etc...) get by with catering primarily to homosexuals (or anyone with an opinion that embraces homosexuality) in some states by choosing to serve only those who are part of a closed membership.

In fact, certain restaurants and restaurant chains that want to serve alcohol often supersede local and country "dry" laws by setting up "nonprofit" clubs and requiring patrons to become members of those clubs in order to be allowed to order drinks. If restaurants like Chili's can be permitted to go around existing laws in order to serve people who drink alcohol, then I suspect that there must be a way to avoid forcing someone to violate their faith in their own businesses.

Ultimately, an American has a Constitutional right to exercise his/her religious faith. No law can be passed that would diminish that right. A privately owned business is owned by individuals and courts have already stated that "a sole proprietor is the same as the person."

As for the original question: Yes, I think that I Corinthians 8 is applicable here. There is no way that I would want to be complicit to sin. If I owned a small store, there would be no "litmus test" to determine whether someone is a Christian or lives in a way that is in opposition to my faith. A homosexual might walk in and want to buy a cake, and I wouldn't have a problem with it. However, this is not the case in the examples that you mentioned. Baking a cake for a homosexual union or taking photographs for gay couples are tantamount to DIRECT PARTICIPATION in something that is in opposition to the Christian faith. Forcing such participation would be restricting someone from the free exercise of their faith with a clear conscience.

My faith would not allow me to bake a cake to celebrate a union rejected by God. My faith would not allow me to take photographs to honor a union deemed sinful by Scriptures. If a court stated that I am required by law to do so, I would close my business and appeal to a higher court.


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Christopher

 2014/10/11 18:45Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


  Christian Couple Forced to Close Bakery Due to Gay Activism May Face Over $150K in Damages

WASHINGTON — Oregon couple Aaron and Melissa Klein were forced to close their bakery after declining to bake a wedding cake for a lesbian marriage ceremony and are now facing the threat of having to pay $150,000 in damages.

Seated next to his wife at a panel on marriage at the Values Voter Summit on Friday, Aaron talked about their faith and what Melissa's bakery meant to her before they had to shut down their business.

"The boycotting, the harassment. I mean, quite frankly, they didn't just harass us they harassed the other wedding vendors that we did business with," Aaron told the audience without going into too much detail about their case due to pending litigation. "It cut off our referral system, we had to shut the shop down. … We were facing in excess of $150,000 in damages for this, just for simply standing by my First Amendment rights."

"I can't say it more forcefully," Aaron continued, "what it came down to was that [my wife] has a God-given talent to create a work of art to celebrate a union between two people." read more at :
http://www.christianpost.com/news/christian-couple-forced-to-close-bakery-due-to-gay-activism-may-face-over-150k-in-damages-127331/

 2014/10/11 20:16Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re:


Mary Jane,

Your daughter has the right to do whatever she feels convicted to do, I meant nothing toward her personally. My remarks were to make people think about where else might a Christian be around homosexual people and show them the love of Christ?

Isn't it the goodness of God that leads each one of us to repentance? How can God be good or show forth His goodness to homosexuals without using a Christian to do it? I'm being honest, I'd like to know! Did Jesus not say, "If you only love those who love you, what good are you?"

I wasn't picking on you or your daughter, Mary Jane, you asked a question and I tried my best to answer it. I hope none of my words came across as hateful or mean or smart alec because they were not spoken that way.

God bless you,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2014/10/11 22:33Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3392
East TN (for now)

 Re: Christian Couple Forced to Close Bakery Due to Gay Activism May Face Over $150K


Proudpapa,

You know what? I realize I'm different than most Christians but I can only hope that if I had that bakery in Oregon, I would have prayed and sung over that cake while making it AND praying over everyone who ate it in the name of Jesus that God would save and deliver them all!! :) :) :)

You don't have to agree with anything about their lifestyle to bake them a cake. :)

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2014/10/11 22:39Profile
rufnrust
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Joined: 2010/1/9
Posts: 234
Indiana

 Re:

Amen Lisa


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Russell

 2014/10/12 0:38Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 1994
Whittier CA USA

 Re:

I see it like this; would it wrong a for a Christian to work in management for the porn industry? Would it be wrong for a Christian to work at a strip club even if he/she doesn't see the stripper?

Also, would it be wrong for a Christian who does graphic design to do designs promoting all kinds of debauchery such as sexual perversion, drunkenness, illicit drug use, etc., getting paid for doing perverted designs with explicit wording? Or even if they themselves didn't do the designs but worked in management for a company that focused on doing those kinds of designs would it be wrong?

I know that many "Christians" these days would have no problem with the above examples. There are even some "ministries" out there in which "Christian ladies" dress like strippers and go into strip clubs to try to reach strippers. It's a sign of the times of great apostasy in which we live.

Despite the need to work and make ends meet, there are certain boundaries we cannot cross. Otherwise we will be hypocrites and ruin our testimony before a watching world.

Let's not be deceived, we are commanded to be holy as He is holy-1Peter 1:16, because without holiness no one will see the Lord-Hebrews 12:14.


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Oracio

 2014/10/12 1:01Profile
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re:

Quote:
Personally, I don't think that a requirement like this would ultimately stand up in court. Would society demand that a restaurant owned by African Americans be required to serve racist KKK clan members dressed in their vile robes? There are plenty of establishments that can be "selective" on who they serve.

...

Ultimately, an American has a Constitutional right to exercise his/her religious faith. No law can be passed that would diminish that right. A privately owned business is owned by individuals and courts have already stated that "a sole proprietor is the same as the person."


ccchhhrrriiisss,

How about a reversal of your proposed scenario - where KKK clan members refuse to serve African Americans due to their beliefs?

In America, there is the Constitution. However, there is also legislation (e.g. Civil Rights Act, Equal Protection Clause) prohibiting racial discrimination in various contexts. It is not far-fetched to imagine these laws could be extended to prohibit 'discrimination' against same-sex couples, which is already taking place as in that news article which Proudpapa shared.

Even the First Amendment and its accompanying Free Exercise of Religion clause have been restricted in the past (c.f. Wikipedia on past judicial cases). Past legal precedents can be extended to suppress the expression of the Christian faith, so it wouldn't be too hard to restrict its practice if there is sufficient support for it in the future.

Generally, the law doesn't always work according to its literal reading, and is allowed to be re-interpreted according to the times (I guess one has to become a lawyer to know the laws he has to obey!). While I do not espouse this, this is sometimes the more pragmatic approach given that the law is replete with holes and contradictions. This applies to the American Constitution too, which was crafted by man according to the flawed ideals of the Enlightenment era.

It should be noted that in other Western countries such as the UK, Christian businesses are already coerced to provide services to same-sex couples. Fundamentally, religious rights are in conflict with a twisted notion of equality, and some courts have decided that the latter should trump the former.

But these days, businesses can have an online presence and participate in various crowdsourcing and freelancing options. So perhaps Christian businesses will find clever ways to go about this! - "Behold, I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves; so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves." (Matt 10:16)


 2014/10/12 5:26Profile





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